18/19 MGMT thread VII. WARNING POST #25

[Black Noise]

Dipietro
Demko
Rathbone
Woo




Pettersson and Boeser were not obvious choices. Selecting guys like Tryamkin and Gaudette in the latter rounds.

I'm sorry but what is special about Rathbone, Woo and Dipietro? How does this show he's a good drafter?

Rathbone is in his D+2 and has played a total of 11 NCAA games with 9 points. Mason Shaw was taken 2 picks later and has 17 points in 26 AHL games. Jacob Bryson (dman) was drafted 4 picks later and has 14 points in 16 NCAA games. Michael Anderson (dman) was drafted 8 picks later and had 23 points in 38 games LAST season. How is Rathbone such a "great pick"?

DiPietro has a .920 in his D+2 in the OHL. Kyle Keyser, Jordan Kooy, Ukko-Pekka Luokkonen, and Hunter Jones are all either younger or the same age and have a better SV%. What separates DiPietro from this group?

Woo has 23 points in 24 games in his D+1. Bode Wilde, taken 4 picks after, 26 points in 24 games. Alex Romanov, the pick after Woo, is already playing big minutes in the KHL. Scott Perunovich, taken 8 picks after has 18 points in 16 NCAA. Once again, what separates Woo from the next 3 defenceman taken after him that makes him such a "great pick"?

Also claiming players are "great picks" before they go pro is stupid. Look at Lind and Gadjovich.

 

[Peter10]

All that proves is Benning inherited a sinking ship.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Deflecting? I'm pointing out how ridiculous your point is because a GM can't possible scout all players going into a draft. Yet you credit him for being the one to draft them.
Real question here, do you really think that Benning scouted all the players in the draft personally?

Yes deflecting. Now you’re acting like the GM doesn’t have any responsibility for the drafting record under his watch. Absolutely preposterous.

 

[Melvin]

What was his plan?

 

[Peter10]

Yes deflecting. Now you’re acting like the GM doesn’t have any responsibility for the drafting record under his watch. Absolutely preposterous.

Jim Benning on how he approached the 2014 draft considering the poor results achieved by the scouting department:

“There’s always so much media attention about their draft record and stuff,” Benning said. “I wanted to sit back and see how they went through the process. I was able to do that."

...and stuff.

 

[JT Milker]

What was his plan?

Hockey

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Jim Benning on how he approached the 2014 draft considering the poor results achieved by the scouting department:



...and stuff.

I’m not sure what you think that quote means. Do you think it means Benning had no impact on any of the picks?

 

[Jimbo57]

So you are saying that prospect pool which you have described as one of the best cant even fill out one of the weakest rosters in the league? Only a couple of the high picks are playing and a 22 year old center who seems like he could use some seasoning in the AHL? Is that really a great prospect pool then?

I am describing it as one of the best because it is highly ranked by multiple sources

Educate yourself
https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-top-50-nhl-affiliated-prospects-tsn-go-1.989926


NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2018-19, from 1 to 31

Pronman: 2018-19 NHL farm system rankings

Also, just because players picked one and two years ago need time to develop doesnt take anything away from the quality of the pool. Is this place for real?Do you guys really think that everyone drafted has to walk in and make an impact immediately?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Hmmm seems like we've heard this before already. Didn't he say we'd be competing in 2 years back in like 2014?

Jim Benning on how he approached the 2014 draft considering the poor results achieved by the scouting department:



...and stuff.

"I didn't do my job and instead delegated to the scouts and 5 years later it has become a convenient excuse." If this is the case, why didn't he listen to Gradin when it came to Nylander?

 

[Jimbo57]

No he wasn't.
Period. I do not care about your appeals to authority, Tkachuk and Juolevi weren't in the same tier as prospects going into that draft. Tkachuk was CONSISTENTLY placed much higher then Juolevi.

Lol "appeals to authority"....im only quoting one of the most reputable hockey writers in Canada. But that pales in comparison to the arm chair experts in here i suppose.

Juolevi was less of a reach than Pettersson was. The org desperately needed a blue chip D man prospect, so they took the guy that was regarded the best in the draft. The fact that it hasnt worked out (so far) in retrospect is a different story.

 

[Jimbo57]

Could you please link that?

oh FFS, how many times do I have to post this.

"For example, the first layer beyond the Big Three is a four-man grouping that includes three different types of wingers — Tkachuk, who is strong from the top of the circles down; Dubois, who has a strong 200-foot game; and Nylander, whose skill and hockey sense are considered elite — and the one defenceman Juolevi, who's viewed as the best all-around blueliner in the draft."

https://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597

 

[Melvin]

Hockey

Boy are they bad at that.

 

[sting101]

Hmmm seems like we've heard this before already. Didn't he say we'd be competing in 2 years back in like 2014?



"I didn't do my job and instead delegated to the scouts and 5 years later it has become a convenient excuse." If this is the case, why didn't he listen to Gradin when it came to Nylander?

He didn't because there was a group of people (the existing scouts, a President and an owner) all pushing for their particular guys.

If you actually read the quiote that @Peter10 quoted you would see that he mostly sat back but DID inject himself

This is how it goes down every year. Even the Pettersson year you heard talk of the war room really getting heated in strong arguments and cases to draft whoever (in that case Pettersson). These are healthy discussions and good on Benning if he was pining for someone else and was open minded enough to realize that Brackett or whoever had the best case and player.

 

[Melvin]

So nobody has any sort of case for how Jim benning has done a good job, for how our team is in a better position today than they would be had the team been run by Doug Maclean and drafting from the potato list?

 

[Fire Benning]

So nobody has any sort of case for how Jim benning has done a good job, for how our team is in a better position today than they would be had the team been run by Doug Maclean and drafting from the potato list?

This is really where pro-Benning movement comes apart at the seams. When you eliminate the drafting argument, you're left with claiming the Tyler Motte acquistion was a huge steal.

 

[Jimbo57]

I'm sorry but what is special about Rathbone, Woo and Dipietro? How does this show he's a good drafter?

Hes built up one of the best prospect pools in the NHL...this includes his post 10 ten picks???

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-top-50-nhl-affiliated-prospects-tsn-go-1.989926
NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2018-19, from 1 to 31
Pronman: 2018-19 NHL farm system rankings

What separates DiPietro from this group?

Ask team Canada, hes challenging for the top spot in net for the WJC.

Woo has 23 points in 24 games in his D+1. Bode Wilde, taken 4 picks after, 26 points in 24 games. Alex Romanov, the pick after Woo, is already playing big minutes in the KHL. Scott Perunovich, taken 8 picks after has 18 points in 16 NCAA. Once again, what separates Woo from the next 3 defenceman taken after him that makes him such a "great pick"?

You mean if some players taken around Woo are performing well Woo cant also be a great pick? And you are calling me stupid?

Someone asked me to post quality players taken post top 10....I mentioned WOO because he is performing very well.

Also claiming players are "great picks" before they go pro is stupid. Look at Lind and Gadjovich.

So its stupid to pre-judge players that havent played yet? Like Juolevi you mean? Or is it stupid to judge guys like Lind who have jumped into pro and before christmas are being written off by geniuses like you because they havent lit it up yet.

 

[Jimbo57]

So nobody has any sort of case for how Jim benning has done a good job, for how our team is in a better position today than they would be had the team been run by Doug Maclean and drafting from the potato list?

instead of talking to yourself, and wasting hundreds of hours consoling the same 10 -12 guys in this echo chamber, you should call aquilini and tell him about your potato. Tell him that any other GM could have had this team being a threat within 5 years.

 

[Black Noise]

Hes built up one of the best prospect pools in the NHL...this includes his post 10 ten picks???

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-top-50-nhl-affiliated-prospects-tsn-go-1.989926
NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2018-19, from 1 to 31
Pronman: 2018-19 NHL farm system rankings



Ask team Canada, hes challenging for the top spot in net for the WJC.



You mean if some players taken around Woo are performing well Woo cant also be a great pick? And you are calling me stupid?

Someone asked me to post quality players taken post top 10....I mentioned WOO because he is performing very well.





So its stupid to pre-judge players that havent played yet? Like Juolevi you mean? Or is it stupid to judge guys like Lind who have jumped into pro and before christmas are being written off by geniuses like you because they havent lit it up yet.

You can keep posting that PNHLe graph, but all it does it look at points, age and league. Nothing else.

Also, regarding Woo, what I saying is that every other defenceman taken around his spot is performing just like Woo. That means that he's not a great pick, he's a pretty average pick for an early 2nd rounder. What he's doing is expected for someone at his draft spot, as shown by the fact that all the other defenceman drafted their are doing comparable things. So no, he's not a great pick yet. If he performs at a high level in the AHL then maybe we can call him that. But calling a guy that has played 24 games since being drafted, and hasn't really done anything to put himself above his peers and "great pick" is stupid.

Also claiming that DiPietro is a good prospect because he's challenging for the top WJC spot once again makes no sense. Team Canada's goalies over the past 10 seasons are: Carter Hart, Connor Ingram, MacKenzie Blackwood, Mason McDonald, Zach Fucale, Malcolm Subban, Mark Visentin, Scott Wedgewood, Oliver Roy, Jake Allen, Dustin Tokarski, and Steve Mason. What great company.

Juolevi hasn't been impressive according to Utica fans so don't really see what you're getting at.

 

[valkynax]

Sorry, you have become incomprehensible. What are you even talking about?



The problem with you is you need instant gratification. You want to be dazzled by norris calibre 20 year olds. In reality overhauling a d core takes time.
Ill post this for the 10th time. This time actually take a look at it. 4 of those players are Canuck D men. This is what they have in the pipeline....more players than any team in the NHL in this ranking:





You obviously do not understand the difference between OJ and Pouliot. OJ needs time in the AHL. Yeah, I know, he should be up here putting up 50 points so you stop whining, but different players required different paths. Pouliot was a hail mary trade, an educated GM taking a chance on a player that was drafted high. They gave up an AHL plug and a latter round pick for a former 8th overall pick with the hopes that his former junior coach can revive him. At the end of the day Pouliot and MDZ are basically here to fill holes while the prospects develop. If we have to deal with Pouliot and MDZ while OJ develops, im fine with that.



Yup, normal fans understand that overhauling an organization takes time. Look at teams like the laffs, oilers, Flames who have spent years in submediocrity at best. Look at teams like Chicago before they won their cups. Chicago missed the playoffs 10 out of 12 years before they won a cup. I can only imagine your diatribes if you had to deal with that.



No GM could have come in here and turn that 2013 mess around in 5 years or less. That concept has flown over your head and you are looking for someone to blame.

I asked you a simple question, and all I see is deflection deflection deflection.

If this team had 1st overall and drafted McDavid instead of Hannifin, is that an idiotic move? Because by your genius logic, it is.

Dim Jim said it himself that he can turn this f***ing team around in a hurry, I'm not making this up. And you gonna pull the "But Gillis" card? Look at the mess Toronto had to deal with, they cleaned everything up in half the time. Because their GM is not a gibbering lunatic whose thumb is always up his ass.

 

[WTG]

Lol "appeals to authority"....im only quoting one of the most reputable hockey writers in Canada. But that pales in comparison to the arm chair experts in here i suppose.

Juolevi was less of a reach than Pettersson was. The org desperately needed a blue chip D man prospect, so they took the guy that was regarded the best in the draft. The fact that it hasnt worked out (so far) in retrospect is a different story.

The difference between Pettersson and his peers during that draft was less then the difference from Juolevi and Tkachuk.

I don't feel like defending this position anymore, you are way out of bounds of reasonable discussion if you cannot understand that Tkachuk at the time was a MUCH better prospect than Juolevi and 100% BPA.

 

[WTG]

Yes deflecting. Now you’re acting like the GM doesn’t have any responsibility for the drafting record under his watch. Absolutely preposterous.

I didn't say that.
How about you answer my question, do you think Benning has scouted Gaudette/Tryamkin/Forsling more than 2 games?

 

[Jimbo57]

You can keep posting that PNHLe graph, but all it does it look at points, age and league. Nothing else.

Of course PNHLe means nothing, it DOES NOT suit your narrative that 4 canuck prospect dmen are on that list.

Also, regarding Woo, what I saying is that every other defenceman taken around his spot is performing just like Woo. That means that he's not a great pick,

So if a player is performing well, but players around him are also performing well, then he is not a great pick? LOL. sure.

he's a pretty average pick for an early 2nd rounder. What he's doing is expected for someone at his draft spot, as shown by the fact that all the other defenceman drafted their are doing comparable things. So no, he's not a great pick yet. If he performs at a high level in the AHL then maybe we can call him that. But calling a guy that has played 24 games since being drafted, and hasn't really done anything to put himself above his peers and "great pick" is stupid.

He is a great pick. Someone asked me to post the names of players taken post top 10 that make the Canuck prospect pool highly ranked. I included WOO. Just because you want to twist this into an anti Benning agenda does not change that.

Also claiming that DiPietro is a good prospect because he's challenging for the top WJC spot once again makes no sense. Team Canada's goalies over the past 10 seasons are: Carter Hart, Connor Ingram, MacKenzie Blackwood, Mason McDonald, Zach Fucale, Malcolm Subban, Mark Visentin, Scott Wedgewood, Oliver Roy, Jake Allen, Dustin Tokarski, and Steve Mason. What great company.

Fact: he is currently in the top 2 or 3 goalies that this country has to put in net for this year's tournament. He is an excellent pick.

Pronman states: "They have the best 1-2 goaltending tandem in the prospect world in Thatcher Demko and Michael DiPietro"

NHL farm system rankings: No. 2 Vancouver Canucks

You can try and downplay this as much as you want. He is another excellent post first round pick by the Canucks.

Juolevi hasn't been impressive according to Utica fans so don't really see what you're getting at.

What does what some Utica fans think have to do with anything i mentioned above? Juolevi was putting up excellent numbers up to the time of his injury. Wasnt he top 2 or 3 in rookie d man scoring in the AHL...but of course you will find a way to diminish that.

 

[Jimbo57]

The difference between Pettersson and his peers during that draft was less then the difference from Juolevi and Tkachuk.

I don't feel like defending this position anymore, you are way out of bounds of reasonable discussion if you cannot understand that Tkachuk at the time was a MUCH better prospect than Juolevi and 100% BPA.

"For example, the first layer beyond the Big Three is a four-man grouping that includes three different types of wingers — Tkachuk, who is strong from the top of the circles down; Dubois, who has a strong 200-foot game; and Nylander, whose skill and hockey sense are considered elite — and the one defenceman Juolevi, who's viewed as the best all-around blueliner in the draft."

https://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597

 

[Melvin]

Do people think if we had a different gm since 2014, we wouldn't have any prospects? How do you defend this position?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

He didn't because there was a group of people (the existing scouts, a President and an owner) all pushing for their particular guys.

If you actually read the quiote that @Peter10 quoted you would see that he mostly sat back but DID inject himself

This is how it goes down every year. Even the Pettersson year you heard talk of the war room really getting heated in strong arguments and cases to draft whoever (in that case Pettersson). These are healthy discussions and good on Benning if he was pining for someone else and was open minded enough to realize that Brackett or whoever had the best case and player.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Virtanen was a scouting decision and that Benning did not play a big role in it, especially when we know Gradin wanted Nylander.