18/19 MGMT thread VII. WARNING POST #25

[sting101]

And that's the problem. IF Juolevi can be a good top 4. He no longer projects to be a top 4 defenseman based on his development. It was a poor pick from the day it was made and he's done NOTHING to change that.

And no, the team is not turning a corner. It's right in line with how bad they've been in each of the past 4 seasons. This is the Edmonton Oilers that people like you screamed you didn't want to become back when people like me were screaming for a proper rebuild. Well guess what? The idiotic moves your dumb hero of a GM made have turned this team into the joke of the league. Enjoy!

OK Just keep repeating should have drafted Tkachuk Nylander?? You do realize that Dal Colle Bennett Puljujarvi were all rated higher than the guys you wanted (Ritchie Barbashev Konecny Vilardi lol) the Canucks picks and the players who you now in hindsight covet. These are 17/18yr old kids it's obviously not an exact science. Your picks are so bad i'm suprised you don't hold JB in high regard actually or could at least have some humility?

My Hero? That is funny. See thats the thing Y2K i can look at the body of work of Jb and pick at things i like and things i dislike. I dont have to pick some side and refuse to admit that he has done anything good.....oh well Pettersson is gonna be the best C of all time as a Canuck thankfully we didnt take your boy.

 

[timw33]

Also incredibly telling that he went after THE SCOUTING STAFF for missing out on Pastrnak.
You'd think if he ran the draft all by himself he wouldn't have blamed people who had little input in the draft.

Very interesting considered he would know the Bruins rough draft order at the end of May (when almost all players' seasons are wrapped) yet couldn't tip off Vancouver to go after Pastranak. If he grilled them about Pastranak is he going to hold himself accountable for Juolevi? Virtanen?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And that's the problem. IF Juolevi can be a good top 4. He no longer projects to be a top 4 defenseman based on his development. It was a poor pick from the day it was made and he's done NOTHING to change that.

And no, the team is not turning a corner. It's right in line with how bad they've been in each of the past 4 seasons. This is the Edmonton Oilers that people like you screamed you didn't want to become back when people like me were screaming for a proper rebuild. Well guess what? The idiotic moves your dumb hero of a GM made have turned this team into the joke of the league. Enjoy!

Oh yeah..Were the Edmonton Oilers..you know.. recently I saw EP and BB knockin' back a few pints at the Roxy.,everybody on the team just tunes out the useless vet players and the coach.......total shitshow...gotta be....derp.

After whats come to light about that dysfunctional Oilers squad,I'm surprised you can even make such a daft comment?

 

[Melvin]

No issue with Benning grilling the staff over Pastrnak.

 

[Peter10]

Canucks hire Jim Benning as general manager

May 21st. Not 3 days

and the GM has huge input on the top50 and less as it goes on. He doesnt have time to be scouting late selections but you can bet he has heard a few names be discussed that they would like if available at certain picks and may inject that he likes one guy more than the other or positionally he would like a goalie like the DiPietro selection.

Virtanen was the player the higher ups wanted before he even came on board
McCann Demko were Benning selections
the rest he sat back and let the scouts do their thing...said as much

2015 He had reset the scouting process and some of the heirarchy thankfully.....
He scouted Boeser hard. What a pick

Did he tell you that or how do you know?


Canucks’ Benning fixed to pick sixth, but all the talk’s about Kesler

“There’s always so much media attention about their draft record and stuff,” Benning said. “I wanted to sit back and see how they went through the process. I was able to do that. In some instances, I made the point: ‘No, this is the type of player that we want, that we’re going to win with.’
“All in all, I thought our guys knew the players. I don’t know what happened here in past years. I wasn’t around to see how they made their list and then what actually happened when they got to the draft floor and made their picks. But I thought the guys worked hard and knew their players.”

 

[Canucks1096]

JB has made some horrible moves. He is not the best GM. I would cut him some slack. The mess Gillis left behind is not an easy fix. Realistically it should take 5 to 6 years. No matter how people like to spin things. JB inherited a team with hardly any good young players. An aging/declining roster with a bunch of ntc. Two of there best forwards the Sedins and there best D Edler didn't want to leave. To prove that it was aging and declining roster. Lot of players Gillis Inherited are not in the nhl anymore. You won't get much assets for players that are close to retirement.

If take a look at two recent successful rebuilds Jets and Leafs. Both rebuild a GM inherited some good pieces, some luck in the draft lottery and used there own 1st round picks.

Jets GM Inherited Buff and Wheeler. Number 1 D and first line winger. Nailed 6 1st round picks in a row Scheifele Trouba Morrisey Ehlers Connor Laine.

Leafs GM inherited Nylander Kadri Marner JVR Rielly Gardiner and won the draft lottery and got Matthews.

Realistically to finish the rebuild you need 8 quality pieces. Both GM inherited and use there own 1st round picks to get those pieces.

Most people will say you need to trade vets and stacked picks. That is the reason why Canucks are still rebuilding. Both teams got better was not because that stacked picks. trading Vets and getting high end piece for rebuild is not realistically. Kessel is one of best wingers in the nhl. He didn't get high end first line player or top D in return. He had more value than any Canucks.

The point I am trying to make is what Gillis left behind. You couldn't get high end pieces back for the Vets JB Inherited. And JB didn't inherited that many good young players. That is reason this rebuild or whatever you want to call it is taking a long time.

You need a Marner and Rielly type of players to have a successful rebuild. Do people expect these returns trading Bieksa and Burrows. Don't think so

So right now the pieces we have are Petey Boeser Horvat Hughes. You still need 4 more pieces. To be fair JB did mess up on a few drafts. I will give JB until end of 2020 or 2021 to turn this around.

 

[Melvin]

Nobody wants a free twenty bucks?

 

[Melvin]

OK Just keep repeating should have drafted Tkachuk Nylander?? You do realize that Dal Colle Bennett Puljujarvi were all rated higher than the guys you wanted (Ritchie Barbashev Konecny Vilardi lol) the Canucks picks and the players who you now in hindsight covet. These are 17/18yr old kids it's obviously not an exact science. Your picks are so bad i'm suprised you don't hold JB in high regard actually or could at least have some humility?

My Hero? That is funny. See thats the thing Y2K i can look at the body of work of Jb and pick at things i like and things i dislike. I dont have to pick some side and refuse to admit that he has done anything good.....oh well Pettersson is gonna be the best C of all time as a Canuck thankfully we didnt take your boy.

And what about the fact that simply taking the BPA based on very basic statistics would have netted you Ehlers, Pastrnak, Tkachuk and Pettersson in those drafts? Don't even have to watch the games.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

JB has made some horrible moves. He is not the best GM. I would cut him some slack. The mess Gillis left behind is not an easy fix. Realistically it should take 5 to 6 years. No matter how people like to spin things. JB inherited a team with hardly any good young players. An aging/declining roster with a bunch of ntc. Two of there best forwards the Sedins and there best D Edler didn't want to leave. To prove that it was aging and declining roster. Lot of players Gillis Inherited are not in the nhl anymore. You won't get much assets for players that are close to retirement.

If take a look at two recent successful rebuilds Jets and Leafs. Both rebuild a GM inherited some good pieces, some luck in the draft lottery and used there own 1st round picks.

Jets GM Inherited Buff and Wheeler. Number 1 D and first line winger. Nailed 6 1st round picks in a row Scheifele Trouba Morrisey Ehlers Connor Laine.

Leafs GM inherited Nylander Kadri Marner JVR Rielly Gardiner and won the draft lottery and got Matthews.

Realistically to finish the rebuild you need 8 quality pieces. Both GM inherited and use there own 1st round picks to get those pieces.

Most people will say you need to trade vets and stacked picks. That is the reason why Canucks are still rebuilding. Both teams got better was not because that stacked picks. trading Vets and getting high end piece for rebuild is not realistically. Kessel is one of best wingers in the nhl. He didn't get high end first line player or top D in return. He had more value than any Canucks.

The point I am trying to make is what Gillis left behind. You couldn't get high end pieces back for the Vets JB Inherited. And JB didn't inherited that many good young players. That is reason this rebuild or whatever you want to call it is taking a long time.

You need a Marner and Rielly type of players to have a successful rebuild. Do people expect these returns trading Bieksa and Burrows. Don't think so

So right now the pieces we have are Petey Boeser Horvat Hughes. You still need 4 more pieces. To be fair JB did mess up on a few drafts. I will give JB until end of 2020 or 2021 to turn this around.

Thank you ..at least some common sense prevails.

 

[Melvin]

JB has made some horrible moves. He is not the best GM. I would cut him some slack. The mess Gillis left .

Stopped reading at Gillis. Try again.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

They flew him out to Vancouver to meet management and ownership before the draft...No lucky guess there,they knew what they wanted.

No, I meant that they're lucky guesses in having worked out.

 

[Canucks1096]

Stopped reading at Gillis. Try again.

I don't think so. My gut feeling is telling me you read everything

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

No, I meant that they're lucky guesses in having worked out.

Like pick the name 'out of a hat' type guesses?...Pick which ever one's name sounds the coolest?..

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I don't think so. My gut feeling is telling me you read everything

He stopped at the relevant point.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I don't think so. My gut feeling is telling me you read everything

mine too...

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Like pick the name 'out of a hat' type guesses?...Pick which ever one's name sounds the coolest?..

You're really trying your best to be obtuse about this one, aren't you?

 

[Melvin]

I don't care about what was left behind by some other gm.

I don't care about what he "inherited."

I don't care about who "he" drafted or what trades he "won" or whatever other facile nonsense.

I care about, what is his plan, and how has he gone about executing that plan.

Can somebody please argue that he has done a good job on executing his plan and walk me through it?

Can someone please speculate on what the canucks of 2018-19 would look like had the team been run by my mother since 2014?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I don't care about what was left behind by some other gm.

I don't care about what he "inherited."

I don't care about who "he" drafted or what trades he "won" or whatever other facile nonsense.

I care about, what is his plan, and how has he gone about executing that plan.

Can somebody please argue that he has done a good job on executing his plan and walk me through it?

Can someone please speculate on what the canucks of 2018-19 would look like had the team been run by my mother since 2014?

The plan to get from A to B changes on the fly..this the new NHL..If you were expecting a 14 page manifesto of how things play out from day to day..........you're shit out of luck.

If the team had been run by your mother...she would have sacked the GM and hired a potato.

 

[Melvin]

The plan to get from A to B changes on the fly..this the new NHL..If you were expecting a 14 page manifesto of how things play out from day to day..........you're **** out of luck.

If the team had been run by your mother...she would have sacked the GM and hired a potato.

You want to give an actual answer?

It's sad that you aren't capable of putting together an actual argument so you just make mindless personal attacks that don't even make sense.

My mom is the gm, and she drafts the players I tell her to draft based on the potato rankings. The canucks are worse off today because why.

 

[Melvin]

I don't think so. My gut feeling is telling me you read everything

Yeah your writing is just so gripping, I couldn't put it down.

I didn't read a word after I saw the name Gillis and realized what tired path you were going down.

 

[Melvin]

Would love it if you guys could put an actual cogent argument together.

Here is Jim Benning's plan to turn around the canucks and here are some of the steps that show he knows what he's doing.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You want to give an actual answer?

It's sad that you aren't capable of putting together an actual argument so you just make mindless personal attacks that don't even make sense.

My mom is the gm, and she drafts the players I tell her to draft based on the potato rankings. The canucks are worse off today because why.

Not the way I see it Melvin,you're not going to be appeased by any argument from me....[MOD]

 

[Melvin]

Not the way I see it Melvin,you're not going to be appeased by any argument from me...[MOD]

[MOD] No actual substance to anything you post.

You're wrong by the way. A strong argument would absolutely persuade me. But nobody is willing to even attempt one.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Would love it if you guys could put an actual cogent argument together.

Here is Jim Benning's plan to turn around the canucks and here are some of the steps that show he knows what he's doing.

You won’t get this Melvin. The best pro-Benning arguments have been done away with here. That’s why the tenor of this board is decidedly atypical.

Of course, some posters relentlessly pushing an already defeated agenda will play victim and say this is because of affiliation (tribalism) and not due to the weakness of his/her argument (or in this case, a complete lack of one at all), but even that doesn’t fly here. There have been enough permutations of the most relevant arguments that nothing really new (evidence) can be brought to bear. People know what’s going on.

You’re going to be waiting a while to get what you seek.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

JB has made some horrible moves. He is not the best GM. I would cut him some slack. The mess Gillis left behind is not an easy fix. Realistically it should take 5 to 6 years. No matter how people like to spin things. JB inherited a team with hardly any good young players. An aging/declining roster with a bunch of ntc. Two of there best forwards the Sedins and there best D Edler didn't want to leave. To prove that it was aging and declining roster. Lot of players Gillis Inherited are not in the nhl anymore. You won't get much assets for players that are close to retirement.

If take a look at two recent successful rebuilds Jets and Leafs. Both rebuild a GM inherited some good pieces, some luck in the draft lottery and used there own 1st round picks.

Jets GM Inherited Buff and Wheeler. Number 1 D and first line winger. Nailed 6 1st round picks in a row Scheifele Trouba Morrisey Ehlers Connor Laine.

Leafs GM inherited Nylander Kadri Marner JVR Rielly Gardiner and won the draft lottery and got Matthews.

Realistically to finish the rebuild you need 8 quality pieces. Both GM inherited and use there own 1st round picks to get those pieces.

Most people will say you need to trade vets and stacked picks. That is the reason why Canucks are still rebuilding. Both teams got better was not because that stacked picks. trading Vets and getting high end piece for rebuild is not realistically. Kessel is one of best wingers in the nhl. He didn't get high end first line player or top D in return. He had more value than any Canucks.

The point I am trying to make is what Gillis left behind. You couldn't get high end pieces back for the Vets JB Inherited. And JB didn't inherited that many good young players. That is reason this rebuild or whatever you want to call it is taking a long time.

You need a Marner and Rielly type of players to have a successful rebuild. Do people expect these returns trading Bieksa and Burrows. Don't think so

So right now the pieces we have are Petey Boeser Horvat Hughes. You still need 4 more pieces. To be fair JB did mess up on a few drafts. I will give JB until end of 2020 or 2021 to turn this around.

You compare with two of the most successful rebuilds and you blame Gillis (oh Benning bros are so similar in their arguments) but you forget two things: none of the Maple Leafs or Jets/Trashers previous GM's had the same success in building a contender like Gillis did. You start in different situations because we, Canucks, were at least in the second round most of the years (and reach the Finals), and both Trashers and Maple Leafs never went to the second round. So the picks are not comparable, not you even can claim the Gillis mess since he had a lot of worse picks to work with.

But, now you say you need 5 or 6 years but Benning said himself he could turn this in a hurry, then he would need 3 to 4 years and now the 5 to 6 years. Next year, we will need 7 to 8 years too? And if you need 8 good pieces, why didn't Benning get more tools (draft picks or prospects) to get those 8 pieces in the previous 4 years? Can you give a reasonable explanation beside "but Gillis" argument, since it is exhausted after the three year period, as per Benning?

By the way, you should check Benning's quote history, it doesn't fit with your post.