GDT: #18 – Sabres at Wild – Thu Nov 13, 8:00PM ET – MSG-B, BELL TV – WBEN

[Sabretooth]

What does Ennis have to do with this conversation? Pretty sure he hasn't been mentioned, until now...

I guess I just assume it all goes back to ennis vs. hodgson with you. I can't accept that you can have an objectively negative view about hodgson, when you were always so negative about him when he was our leading scorer.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Getting shuffled around the bottom 9 isn't going to do anyone any favors, I don't care who you put him with.

Hodgson isn't getting the job done right now, but there's no denying that ever since Nolan took over, Hodgson has been trending downward. He put up 7-8-15 during the first 20 games of the season last year, under Rolston, during what was our toughest stretch of the schedule of the season, playing the top line getting the toughest matchups, on a pretty offensively inept team. His production dropped after he was dropped down the lineup when Nolan took over, but he still put up 29 pts in 52 games. So the fact that he only has 2 pts on the year so far, its not like he's not capable of producing offensively. I just don't see how part of the blame doesn't fall on Nolan and how he's decided to (not) use hodgson's skills. Thats what disappoints me the most about the whole situation.

Alternatively, how much of Hodgson's production was an impact of Vanek.

 

[Sabretooth]

Alternatively, how much of Hodgson's production was an impact of Vanek.

Fair point, but 2 years ago when hodgson was centering vanek and pominville, the 2 wingers were also having their most productive years in a while (granted it was a shortened season), and there was debate about whether it was hodgson having a positive impact on them. Vanek scored more in fewer games playing with hodgson than he did playing with Tavares and the islanders. At the very least it doesn't sound like Hodgson was a hinderence (and hodgson is no tavares). Hodgson and Vanek had pretty good chemistry together and that probably helped them both, ultimately.

 

[mikemcburn]

Alternatively, how much of Hodgson's production was an impact of Vanek.

This just goes back to the question of how line mates impact a guy's ability to produce (or not), which stokes raised and then objected to taking into account (when it didn't work for his argument), and which others have been suggesting -

It's unrealistic to expect any player to produce offensively at his best when lined up with career 4th liners (or 2nd/3rd liners who are also struggling).

Hodgson is simply no exception to this. He ain't no Crosby

 

[stokes84]

I guess I just assume it all goes back to ennis vs. hodgson with you. I can't accept that you can have an objectively negative view about hodgson, when you were always so negative about him when he was our leading scorer.

My view of him has always been objective. He's always had warts in his game that drive me crazy and they are all still there. Much of the argument for Hodgson was that he was young and would improve upon those issues, and so far he hasn't. Now he isn't scoring and more people are less forgiving of these warts. Honestly, I feel a little bad for him because I never doubted that he had some offensive ability, but even he seems to be doubting it now.

 

[stokes84]

This just goes back to the question of how line mates impact a guy's ability to produce (or not), which stokes raised and then objected to taking into account (when it didn't work for his argument), and which others have been suggesting -

It's unrealistic to expect any player to produce offensively at his best when lined up with career 4th liners (or 2nd/3rd liners who are also struggling).

Hodgson is simply no exception to this. He ain't no Crosby

Huh?

 

[mikemcburn]

Fair point, but 2 years ago when hodgson was centering vanek and pominville, the 2 wingers were also having their most productive years in a while (granted it was a shortened season), and there was debate about whether it was hodgson having a positive impact on them. Vanek scored more in fewer games playing with hodgson than he did playing with Tavares and the islanders. At the very least it doesn't sound like Hodgson was a hinderence (and hodgson is no tavares). Hodgson and Vanek had pretty good chemistry together and that probably helped them both, ultimately.

At the time, Vanek had a lot of good things to say of Hodgson and how the kid fit his style. They clicked, it worked. Moulson-Hodgson did well enough too until hitting a cool period and Nolan breaking them up. Cool stretches and coaches breaking up lines to account for the same are pretty common things. The unusual thing is that despite the Sabres offensive struggles Nolan refuses to reunite Moulson-Hodgson?

For what it's worth, btw, thus far this season Vanek has as many goals as Hodgson - and it came on the PP. Meaning Hodgson is technically outscoring Vanek at ES so far, lol. Bonus to Vanek is that he's got linemates who are racking up assists for him at least.

 

[Bps21*]

I bet Vanek isn't on the ice for as many ES shots against in a month as Hodgson is on any given night.

The problem isn't his lack of scoring...it's that he gives tire fires a bad name when it comes to possession and defending.

Nolan is trying to figure out where he does the least damage. ... I can't believe you made me defend Nolan.

 

[mikemcburn]

Huh?

You raised the topic of line mates by inferring Hodgson's offense woes are all on him because he's played with "pretty good players" and "all season". However, when someone point out that this wasn't the case, you claimed "most common linemate is pretty irrelevant".

 

[mikemcburn]

I bet Vanek isn't on the ice for as many ES shots against in a month as Hodgson is on any given night.

The problem isn't his lack of scoring...it's that he gives tire fires a bad name when it comes to possession and defending.

Nolan is trying to figure out where he does the least damage. ... I can't believe you made me defend Nolan.

Oops, sorry 'bout that!

To be fair to Nolan (who I'm not a fan of), I can totally see how Hodgson's playing style doesn't fit what Nolan has in mind as a "hard worker". I'm also as frustrated as the next fan when watching Hodgson back-peddle in float mode and try to get away with what I call "sticky stick" defensive playing.

Still, Hodgson's defensive play *has* been better recently. Actually, it's more his physical play that has been better, say in the last 3-4 games in particular... If he could be further coached into that mentality he'd be the better for it.

FYI, you can compare Hodgson/Vanek's advanced stats here

Vanek's Corsi% is higher, Hodgson's CorsiRel% & CorsiComp% is higher, etc.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

@BuffaloSabres

Game night! 7:30pm Tops Game Night Pregame Show on MSG!

 

[joshjull]

Fair point, but 2 years ago when hodgson was centering vanek and pominville, the 2 wingers were also having their most productive years in a while (granted it was a shortened season), and there was debate about whether it was hodgson having a positive impact on them. Vanek scored more in fewer games playing with hodgson than he did playing with Tavares and the islanders. At the very least it doesn't sound like Hodgson was a hinderence (and hodgson is no tavares). Hodgson and Vanek had pretty good chemistry together and that probably helped them both, ultimately.

That line was also horrid in its own end and all three players were in the top 30 in goals allow per 60mins played for a stretch. That was driven by Hodgson's play. It got so ridiculous Pommer was frequently handling the center's defensive role in our end to cover for Hodgson. He (Hodgson) was at his best offensively as a Sabre with Pommer/Vanek. Yet he was a net negative in terms of goals scored vs goals allowed at ES.

Goals for/60mins with Hodgson -------> 2.91
Goals against/60 min with Hodgson ---> 3.64 (worst on the team)

For a further frame of reference the Goals against /60mins when he was off the ice was 1.97 and our team goals against/60mins was 2.5.


The reality is flawed centers like Hodgson don't exist on good teams. Those flaws being he can't drive possession and he sucks defensively. Thats why they wanted to try him on the wing where those issue can be mitigated to some extent. One thing he does do exceptionally well is shoot the puck. He should be able to get back on track offensively with a strong center who can get him the puck. Unfortunately we don't have any centers that can do that right now. Thats not going to change until one of our young centers (Grigs, Reinhart) is ready or we acquire a center.

 

[mikemcburn]

That line was also horrid in its own end and all three players were in the top 30 in goals allow per 60mins played for a stretch. That was driven by Hodgson's play. It got so ridiculous Pommer was frequently handling the center's defensive role in our end to cover for Hodgson. He (Hodgson) was at his best offensively as a Sabre with Pommer/Vanek. Yet he was a net negative in terms of goals scored vs goals allowed at ES.

Goals for/60mins with Hodgson -------> 2.91
Goals against/60 min with Hodgson ---> 3.64 (worst on the team)

For a further frame of reference the Goals against /60mins when he was off the ice was 1.97 and our team goals against/60mins was 2.5.


The reality is flawed centers like Hodgson don't exist on good teams. Those flaws being he can't drive possession and he sucks defensively. Thats why they wanted to try him on the wing where those issue can be mitigated to some extent. One thing he does do exceptionally well is shoot the puck. He should be able to get back on track offensively with a strong center who can get him the puck. Unfortunately we don't have any centers that can do that right now. Thats not going to change until one of our young centers (Grigs, Reinhart) is ready or we acquire a center.

Speaking of "strong centers", poor Stewart & Hodgson tonight.

According to the line rushes anyway, newly minted "center" Stafford, shall be charged to put all of his offensive and defensive prowess to work...

 

[NotABadPeriod]

OK, the question of the day:

What number will be higher: shots by Sabres or points by Bills.

 

[Woodhouse]

Goal?! Goal.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Great hustle leads to a Zemgoal!

Risto does a nice job of just getting the puck to the net.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

Well, that didn't take long!

 

[Samsonite23]

Zemgod.

 

[stokes84]

Risto gets the goal.

 

[jvirk]

Zemgus and Risto - the future right there...that a way boys

 

[sabres4ever]

Not sure Zem will get credit for that...not sure he touched it before it crossed the line.

 

[Samsonite23]

Credited to Risto. I like it.

 

[Ralonzo]

Zemgod Risto and Zadorov.

The team needs to lose of course but nice to see those guys come out on the first shift and be instrumental in jamming one in.

PS stadium announcer, Jergensons? That was a QB for the Redskins.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Zemgus Jirjensons

 

[Bure All Day]

Pleeease Enroth give me this win. All I'm asking.

Oh and if Myers could get some points, that would be greeeeat.