Prospect Info: 17-18 Blues Top Prospect #4

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
Nothing at all, it was i and another member (Dbrowns? I think) that were supporters going into the draft of wanting Thomas at 20 and Kostin at 27. We in turn were both thrilled with how we came out of the draft.

Im really just having fun with this whole opinionated process, and realize everyones criteria will vary. Hell Schmaltz has even mustered 5+ votes at this point and i dont even have him ranked in my next 5 prospects.
Nah, I had Kostin at 20. I am thrilled though we have both.


I actually had Schmaltz this time. For all the grief and me trying to push him out the door, i still think he has a ceiling floor of a high end/low end 3-4. Schmaltz like Barbashev needs to marinate before they shine. When they first take the next step its somewhat underwhelming but year 2 is much better. Given that i view him to be a virtual lock to be an NHL player with a safe floor, i still have him ranked high
 

Stealth JD

Don't condescend me, man.
Sponsor
Jan 16, 2006
16,735
8,031
Bonita Springs, FL
Nah, I had Kostin at 20. I am thrilled though we have both.


I actually had Schmaltz this time. For all the grief and me trying to push him out the door, i still think he has a ceiling floor of a high end/low end 3-4. Schmaltz like Barbashev needs to marinate before they shine. When they first take the next step its somewhat underwhelming but year 2 is much better. Given that i view him to be a virtual lock to be an NHL player with a safe floor, i still have him ranked high

Yeah...I've got Schmaltz in this range (4-5-6) ahead of the likes of Thomas & Kostin because he's already an NHL'er and still has a pretty good chance of being top-4 in this league. Sanford too...he could be a 2nd-liner if things click for him. I like the hype of the kids, including Kyrou & Thompson...but I want to see them do it for a full season or two against men and continue to develop before proclaiming them to be potential stars.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
Yeah...I've got Schmaltz in this range (4-5-6) ahead of the likes of Thomas & Kostin because he's already an NHL'er and still has a pretty good chance of being top-4 in this league. Sanford too...he could be a 2nd-liner if things click for him. I like the hype of the kids, including Kyrou & Thompson...but I want to see them do it for a full season or two against men and continue to develop before proclaiming them to be potential stars.


Yea that's I feel at least for this week lol. I wouldn't push my thought process to much onto anyone else since there really are no answers. I just dont feel too strongly about any prospect outside of Dunn. I watched alot of him in juniors, him and Fabbri I had as locks to be difference makers in the NHL.

I absolutely love what ive read about Kostin and Thomas, but ive only seen short clips of them. Im just not exposed to their game play to push them past guys i view as Nhl contributors at this point.


Edit: i also feel the same about Sanford. He's displayed good hockey IQ, hands and adequate skating in the NHL. He may not be great along the boards but he's willing to go there. He has the tools and toolbox to be a middle six player, he has the frame to play that position well, just needs to fill out. This completely achievable.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,935
5,727
To me Schmaltz looks like a better offensive but worse defensive version of Gunnerson a year ago. His ceiling has dropped from a 3 to a max of a 4. The more I watch I'm the more I notice how little he commands the ice. As a top 3 you have to be a driver either on the O or D side of the ice. Don't get me wrong, I like Schmaltz, but I see a plus level bottom pairing guy, with maybe a few years on the middle pairing during his peak. I think we have too many more promising prospects to vote for him at this point. JMHO
 

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
124
Temple, Texas
To me Schmaltz looks like a better offensive but worse defensive version of Gunnerson a year ago. His ceiling has dropped from a 3 to a max of a 4. The more I watch I'm the more I notice how little he commands the ice. As a top 3 you have to be a driver either on the O or D side of the ice. Don't get me wrong, I like Schmaltz, but I see a plus level bottom pairing guy, with maybe a few years on the middle pairing during his peak. I think we have too many more promising prospects to vote for him at this point. JMHO

The way you put it kind if hits home to how I viewed him too. I don't want to read too much into a guys first few NHL games, but I do feel that Schmaltz's ceiling is a little lower than what it was a couple years ago.

I remember when we projected him as a replacement for Shattenkirk (or at least close enough to not feel that we needed to acquire another player to take his place). That seems very optimistic now, but Parayko's emergence allows that maybe Schmaltz can function on the 3rd pairing. I'm just not sure what the actual pairing will be if Dunn or Walman are starting.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,935
5,727
The way you put it kind if hits home to how I viewed him too. I don't want to read too much into a guys first few NHL games, but I do feel that Schmaltz's ceiling is a little lower than what it was a couple years ago.

I remember when we projected him as a replacement for Shattenkirk (or at least close enough to not feel that we needed to acquire another player to take his place). That seems very optimistic now, but Parayko's emergence allows that maybe Schmaltz can function on the 3rd pairing. I'm just not sure what the actual pairing will be if Dunn or Walman are starting.

To me you continue to calibrate a players ceiling and likelihood to reach it as you see them more and as their level of competition changes. With Schmaltz, we are just refining our assessment of him. I still see him as a positive player/asset, just with a more keen valuation.
 

ChicagoBlues

Sentient
Oct 24, 2006
14,271
5,448
To me Schmaltz looks like a better offensive but worse defensive version of Gunnerson a year ago. His ceiling has dropped from a 3 to a max of a 4. The more I watch I'm the more I notice how little he commands the ice. As a top 3 you have to be a driver either on the O or D side of the ice. Don't get me wrong, I like Schmaltz, but I see a plus level bottom pairing guy, with maybe a few years on the middle pairing during his peak. I think we have too many more promising prospects to vote for him at this point. JMHO

I agree with viewpoint as well. Schmatlz is good, no doubt, but not a game-changer and not a future NHL star.

"how little he commands the ice" Exactly!!
 

Robb_K

Registered User
Apr 26, 2007
21,035
11,175
NordHolandNethrlands
I would have to go back and watch it again. They have an overall strategy as to how they draft. They know what other teams are looking for and who they like. Just because they choose Thomas over Kostin doesn't necessarily mean he's better. Not saying you shouldn't pick Thomas. I just wouldn't appeal to the authority in this case
Same situation as Tarasenko vs. Schwartz. Schwartz was picked first because Tarasenko was seen as a risk to some teams of never coming to North America. Kostin suffered from the same potential downside (greater because he still had a 3-year contract with a KHL team), in addition to questions about his possibly not coming to North America at all, or, for at least 3 years, he had been hurt recently. We now know that he was released from his KHL team, and his arm's healing is well underway. So, he'd go much higher in a draft with the same players, conducted today. Had he been perfectly healthy and not had his KHL contract, he'd likely have been drafted significantly higher than Thomas.
 

Stealth JD

Don't condescend me, man.
Sponsor
Jan 16, 2006
16,735
8,031
Bonita Springs, FL
I agree with viewpoint as well. Schmatlz is good, no doubt, but not a game-changer and not a future NHL star.

"how little he commands the ice" Exactly!!

Not that I expect him to take a monumental leap forward, but how many NHL games has Schmaltz played to this point? It's a bit early to say what he will or won't become. I remember what Jaden Schwartz looked like after 40 NHL games of experience. He looked like he needed to percolate in the minors for another season at that point.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,935
5,727
Not that I expect him to take a monumental leap forward, but how many NHL games has Schmaltz played to this point? It's a bit early to say what he will or won't become. I remember what Jaden Schwartz looked like after 40 NHL games of experience. He looked like he needed to percolate in the minors for another season at that point.

I think people are evaluating Schmaltz based on their AHL and NHL viewings.
 

LetsGoBooze

Buium or bust
Jan 16, 2012
2,308
1,395
Same situation as Tarasenko vs. Schwartz.

Apples and oranges. This is such a lazy comparison in my opinioin. Chosing Schwartz ahead of Tarasenko because there is ONE pick in between the two, and hoping a player falls one spot, in that scenario you can argue possibly the Blues organization liked Tarasenko more all a long and that was a drafting strategy to obtain both players. However, in the case this year if the Blues thought Kostin was a cant miss they would have taken him at 20 not risked the SIX picks between their selections and then on top of that traded down another FOUR picks hoping the guy they wanted all a long (even more than Thomas) would still be there at 31. I actually believe Kostin had less of a Russian factor than Vladi and he fell due to his injury/lack of production this past season. He came out a few days before the draft and said he would be playing in the AHL or NHL next season.

Therefore, in my humble opinion in the 2 whole weeks that have passed since the draft, with zero competitive hockey being played i stuck with the Blues front office and their criteria on my opinion and placed Thomas ahead of Kostin cause they JUST drafted them with that priority.

Now, that all being said, i think Kostin can shoot up the ranking very quickly and surpass a ton of prospects regardless of draft position, however he needs to show he's healthy and can adjust to NA ice before he earns that respect IMO. I for one do hope he turns into the next Rick Nash or whatever comparison you want to throw out there, BUT its been 2 weeks and im tempering my expectations until he proves otherwise.

LGB
 

Bluesnatic27

Registered User
Aug 5, 2011
4,715
3,212
Apples and oranges. This is such a lazy comparison in my opinioin. Chosing Schwartz ahead of Tarasenko because there is ONE pick in between the two, and hoping a player falls one spot, in that scenario you can argue possibly the Blues organization liked Tarasenko more all a long and that was a drafting strategy to obtain both players. However, in the case this year if the Blues thought Kostin was a cant miss they would have taken him at 20 not risked the SIX picks between their selections and then on top of that traded down another FOUR picks hoping the guy they wanted all a long (even more than Thomas) would still be there at 31. I actually believe Kostin had less of a Russian factor than Vladi and he fell due to his injury/lack of production this past season. He came out a few days before the draft and said he would be playing in the AHL or NHL next season.

Therefore, in my humble opinion in the 2 whole weeks that have passed since the draft, with zero competitive hockey being played i stuck with the Blues front office and their criteria on my opinion and placed Thomas ahead of Kostin cause they JUST drafted them with that priority.

Now, that all being said, i think Kostin can shoot up the ranking very quickly and surpass a ton of prospects regardless of draft position, however he needs to show he's healthy and can adjust to NA ice before he earns that respect IMO. I for one do hope he turns into the next Rick Nash or whatever comparison you want to throw out there, BUT its been 2 weeks and im tempering my expectations until he proves otherwise.

LGB

Finally, you provided an actual reason to why you would vote for Thomas, or at least a reason why you have Kostin lower. This was something that should have been done long ago instead of just reiterating the same nonsense of draft position like it means anything to player development.
 

LetsGoBooze

Buium or bust
Jan 16, 2012
2,308
1,395
instead of just reiterating the same nonsense of draft position like it means anything to player development.

When comparing 2 players from the same draft, 2 weeks after it had just taken place, draft position means a lot to me, but maybe I'm in the minority here.

Other than that i don't put much value on it, the Yakupov-factor.

Honestly, Thomas, Kostin, Thompson, and Kyrou are all so damn close it's hard to get a grasp on how to rate one higher than another. All have a lot of potential for different reasons. A good problem to have :)
 

Novacain

Registered User
Feb 24, 2012
4,362
4,875
With a 9 vote lead, I put forth closing this thing, unless anyone thinks a comeback is still possible?
 

ezcreepin

Registered User
Dec 5, 2016
2,567
2,312
To me Schmaltz looks like a better offensive but worse defensive version of Gunnerson a year ago. His ceiling has dropped from a 3 to a max of a 4. The more I watch I'm the more I notice how little he commands the ice. As a top 3 you have to be a driver either on the O or D side of the ice. Don't get me wrong, I like Schmaltz, but I see a plus level bottom pairing guy, with maybe a few years on the middle pairing during his peak. I think we have too many more promising prospects to vote for him at this point. JMHO

I didn't get to watch a ton of Schmaltz at all, especially while he was up with the Blues because on most days they played, I was working late. What I did see from him was that he had good vision on the ice (solid offensive instincts) and was really calm for it being his first time up. I really like him as a cheap option because he can produce offense and assuming he doesn't hit his ceiling, he'll be a really good 3rd pairing guy (in my eyes at least). I'm not the best at evaluating talent, but I feel he's a solid d-man with little value for some reason, if that makes any sense. I think the Blues should keep him unless an offer for a top 6 center or legitimate RW surrounds him.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,935
5,727
I didn't get to watch a ton of Schmaltz at all, especially while he was up with the Blues because on most days they played, I was working late. What I did see from him was that he had good vision on the ice (solid offensive instincts) and was really calm for it being his first time up. I really like him as a cheap option because he can produce offense and assuming he doesn't hit his ceiling, he'll be a really good 3rd pairing guy (in my eyes at least). I'm not the best at evaluating talent, but I feel he's a solid d-man with little value for some reason, if that makes any sense. I think the Blues should keep him unless an offer for a top 6 center or legitimate RW surrounds him.
I completely agree!
 

Itsnotatrap

Registered User
Oct 6, 2013
1,294
1,600
Unless we are waiting for the returns from Cook County, I believe the Kostinites have secured the victory.
 

STL fan in MN

Registered User
Aug 16, 2007
7,135
4,024
Has anyone seen MattyMo? I haven't seen him post since his "I'll leave this up one more day" post from 2 days ago.
 

Bobby Orrtuzzo

Ya know
Jul 8, 2015
12,791
9,721
St. Louis
giphy.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad