Value of: 16th Overall + Kerfoot

[cgf]

Miller and Zucker aren't too far off. Miller can play C too and has a good shot but prefers to pass more. So like I was said Zucker gives you a few more goals but Miller is more versatile as he can play C and brings much more physically.

Kerfoot isn't ideal for us at 4mil but it would save money on Palat and we can use him for a year then try to move him later or flip him right away. Seems like Kerfoot and Palat aren't wanted by either of their teams so value must be good on the two. Is Miller worth 16 though.

I like Zucker's fit with MacK n Landy a lot more as wingers for the first line and wouldn't be content with Miller as our 2C. Not saying Miller wouldn't be worth #16, just that I'd rather use it on Zucker because I think he'd actually resolve one of our top 6 holes at a high level while Miller would be more of a half-solution at either spot.

 

[Bazeek]

I like Zucker's fit with MacK n Landy a lot more as wingers for the first line and wouldn't be content with Miller as our 2C. Not saying Miller wouldn't be worth #16, just that I'd rather use it on Zucker because I think he'd actually resolve one of our top 6 holes at a high level while Miller would be more of a half-solution at either spot.

If you mostly want someone to follow those two around and finish off chances that's pretty much exactly in Zucker's wheelhouse.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I like Zucker's fit with MacK n Landy a lot more as wingers for the first line and wouldn't be content with Miller as our 2C. Not saying Miller wouldn't be worth #16, just that I'd rather use it on Zucker because I think he'd actually resolve one of our top 6 holes at a high level.

Understandable. My question is what is the plan with Kerfoot because I can't see Zucker being worth him and 16? I think Palat and Soderberg could be a good 3rd line combo as defensively strong with offensive potential. Miller isn't as good a fit on the top line and maybe isn't a 2C but could be good as the 2LW. You get two top 9 guys in this deal instead of just Zucker and maybe a pick for Kerfoot.

 

[cgf]

If you mostly want someone to follow those two around and finish off chances that's pretty much exactly in Zucker's wheelhouse.

Which, I think, is exactly what those two need after watching chance after chance fall to Kerfoot this postseason, only for him to put a muffin right into the goalie's chest or wide of an open net.

 

[cgf]

Understandable. My question is what is the plan with Kerfoot because I can't see Zucker being worth him and 16? I think Palat and Soderberg could be a good 3rd line combo as defensively strong with offensive potential. Miller isn't as good a fit on the top line and maybe isn't a 2C but could be good as the 2LW. You get two top 9 guys in this deal instead of just Zucker and maybe a pick for Kerfoot.

I'd send Kerf to a team like Edmonton for a couple of 3rds.

As for Palat, I just don't see any need when we'd already have Soderberg, Calvert, Nieto, Compher, Jost, Kamenev & Greer as guys who should ideally be in the bottom 6. That's why I want top 6ers that would keep us from having to push those guys onto the 2nd line...even Jost I'd rather have start the season in the bottom 6 and earn that final top 6 spot from an FA like Donskoi, than just be penciled in from the get-go.

 

[justafan22]

16 and Kerfoot for Kadri seems fair.

 

[returnofthemack29]

Which, I think, is exactly what those two need after watching chance after chance fall to Kerfoot this postseason, only for him to put a muffin right into the goalie's chest or wide of an open net.

What really sold me is that with Nieto and Zucker the Avs would have Long AND Newport Beach natives!

 

[justafan22]

Easy yes from the Avs.
He’ll be a target for Colorado if he’s actually available. Avs fans keep throwing around an EJ for Kadri+Marleau proposal which I think works for both teams. However Sakic’s loyalty to EJ probably prevents that from happening.

What do you think Kerfoot's contract demands will be?

 

[VikingAv]

I'd send Kerf to a team like Edmonton for a couple of 3rds.

As for Palat, I just don't see any need when we'd already have Soda, Calvert, Nieto, Compher, Jost, Kam & Greer as guys who should ideally be in the bottom 6. I want top 6er that keep us from having to push those guys onto the 2nd line...even Jost I'd rather have start the year in the bottom 6 and earn that final top 6 spot from an FA like Donskoi, than just be penciled in from the get go.

Which contract are we taking back from salary-cap-troubled Edmonton for this to happen?

 

[cgf]

Which contract are we taking back from salary-cap-troubled Edmonton for this to happen?

"[...]a team like Edmonton[...]" If Edmonton won't be able to squeeze his 3.75-4.25M in after their wheeling & dealing this summer then it wouldn't be them

 

[innitfam]

I don't see how Kerfoot + 16OA returns Kessel. Over the last 3 seasons he has 244 points. And he makes a bargan 6.8M for three more seasons.

 

[BackhandToedrag]

And yet there are a bunch of people suggesting that we give up a good chance at getting an impact player on their ELC in exchange for a 31 year old. Two years of Kessel isn't worth that asking price. He doesn't guarantee us a Cup, even though he is a very productive playoff player. It's a short term solution, when we should be looking at a long term solution.

As for vets, we have Cole (2 Cups) and Grubauer (1 Cup). How many more vets with rings do we need? Is 3 the magic number to guarantee a Cup?

So the worst dman on the team and the goalie who was a backup on his cup team is all the experience you need.... And when you have three too 4 d under 26 and most of your forwards are young you can afford to trade a mid first I'm in no way suggesting trading 4OA but I would do 16 in a heart beat for Kessel you have to give a little to get good player.....and if Panarin doesn't interest you in free agency than we are done here he's one of the better players in all of hockey cap space is only valuable if you use it

 

[cgf]

16 and Kerfoot for Kadri seems fair.

I prefer the EJ + eating Marleau option so we can keep that pick to use on Zucker, but I suspect that this is the more realistic iteration of a Kadri to colorado trade given the respect GMs.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So the worst dman on the team and the goalie who was a backup on his cup team is all the experience you need.... And when you have three too 4 d under 26 and most of your forwards are young you can afford to trade a mid first I'm in no way suggesting trading 4OA but I would do 16 in a heart beat for Kessel you have to give a little to get good player.....and if Panarin doesn't interest you in free agency than we are done here he's one of the better players in all of hockey cap space is only valuable if you use it

Well, the rest of the team has now made it to game 7 in the second round, which should count for something. I'd much rather let our youngsters take another crack at it and gain even more experience rather than give up a potential long term piece for 2-3 years of soon to be 32 year old Phil Kessel. On top of that, I have no interest in helping Pittsburgh add young talent to their aging core and potentially get another shot at the Cup.

And, Panarin is a great player. In a world without the salary cap, it would be a no brainer. But, in the cap world, he's too expensive to fill the 2nd line hole that the Avs have, and his contract would likely cause issues keeping more important pieces later on (Makar, Girard, 4OA). Do you want to be in a situation like Toronto is, where they need to move older, overpaid guys in order to make cap space to keep their youth? I think that's exactly the situation we should be trying to avoid.

 

[BackhandToedrag]

Well, the rest of the team has now made it to game 7 in the second round, which should count for something. I'd much rather let our youngsters take another crack at it and gain even more experience rather than give up a potential long term piece for 2-3 years of soon to be 32 year old Phil Kessel. On top of that, I have no interest in helping Pittsburgh add young talent to their aging core and potentially get another shot at the Cup.

And, Panarin is a great player. In a world without the salary cap, it would be a no brainer. But, in the cap world, he's too expensive to fill the 2nd line hole that the Avs have, and his contract would likely cause issues keeping more important pieces later on (Makar, Girard, 4OA). Do you want to be in a situation like Toronto is, where they need to move older, overpaid guys in order to make cap space to keep their youth? I think that's exactly the situation we should be trying to avoid.

Your understanding of the cap is something really special

 

[justafan22]

I prefer the EJ + eating Marleau option so we can keep that pick to use on Zucker, but I suspect that this is the more realistic iteration of a Kadri to colorado trade given the respect GMs.

What do you think is fair value for Kerfoot as an RFA?

~3-3.5 AAV?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Your understanding of the cap is something really special

I'd say the same thing about anyone suggesting that we should spend all our cap space regardless of the long term consequences. We have too much young talent that will need new contracts in the new future to paint ourselves into a corner going after the most expensive UFA on the market. Out of curiosity, when you get paid every week, do you put any of it into savings, or do you spend it all on shiny toys you don't actually need?

 

[cgf]

What do you think is fair value for Kerfoot as an RFA?

~3-3.5 AAV?

That's up to him. He has the #s to get something well into the 4s if he takes it to arbitration.

 

[BackhandToedrag]

I'd say the same thing about anyone suggesting that we should spend all our cap space regardless of the long term consequences. We have too much young talent that will need new contracts in the new future to paint ourselves into a corner going after the most expensive UFA on the market. Out of curiosity, when you get paid every week, do you put any of it into savings, or do you spend it all on shiny toys you don't actually need?

This is my last reply to you as we clearly aren't gonna agree here but when you have the best contract in the NHL on your roster you should maximize your roster for the duration of that deal.... Chicago was in a very similar situation when they added Hossa and he helped them win 3 cups

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

This is my last reply to you as we clearly aren't gonna agree here but when you have the best contract in the NHL on your roster you should maximize your roster for the duration of that deal.... Chicago was in a very similar situation when they added Hossa and he helped them win 3 cups

If you want to use Hossa as a comparable, I'm assuming the Avs are getting a special exemption to sign Panarin to a 12 year, cap circumventing contract with $1m years at the end, getting him at essentially 2/3 of market value. Panarin at $6m would be an easy yes.

I'd also suggest we look at another Central division team, as a counterpoint to the Hawks. The Wild added Suter and Parise as big money UFAs. How many Cups did they win? Where are they now?

 

[Mac Attack]

He couldnt light it up next to Mack

It's cuz the kid can't shoot. Like at all. I don't mind keeping him on the second line if he is the weaker link next to a good shooter and a two way centre. He is still a decent play maker.

 

[OB34KNH]

You could wait until fee agency and try and pick up a Skinner, Dzingel or Nyquist.

Save on assets.

Neither of them are TRUE Centers. There really aren't any ESTABLISHED 2C'S on the market.
Many available centers are coming off career bests / outliers and are looking for big-game pay (a.l.a. Kevin Hayes) --- You do NOT want Kevin Hayes. Some team is gonna regret signing this guy, he's going to get ~ 6.5 million x 6 years.

Matt Duchene is not going to sign with the Avs. Duchene's camp has leaked that they are not willing to return to Denver, it's reported that Duchene wanted out of Colorado.

Best option is to trade current picks packaged with roster players for a #2 Center. Kadri is a great option (great contract, 2-way center in his prime), however, reports suggest Leafs are not willing to part ways with Kadri. Kadri's contract (paired with his performance) is too good for the Leafs to give up.
You're going to have to overpay for Kadri for the Leafs to trade him. Think trading 4th overall for Kadri+ (not fair, but an over payment like that is the only way)

The Avs will go after Centers like Trochek / Eric Stall / Jack Roslovic / Bjugstad / Andreas Anthanasiou
These guys you can pry away from their respective teams with the 16th overall picks + players / prospects

If you want higher end centers such as:
Zibanejad / Mikael Granlund / Claude Giroux (gonna add a big plus for this guy)

You're giving up the 4th overall pick +

 

[OB34KNH]

Jason Zucker is small fish, With the assets the Avs have. They are 100% not going after him.

Think Mika Zibanejad or even Claude Grioux ----- all big fish. Yes, it will take the 4th overall and a sweetener --- but, this will make the Avs true contenders.

I heard that Philadelphia is looking into full-rebuild (Think Bruins' Kessel to Toronto type trade, with ZERO% UNCERTAINTY for Avs on where the picks land)

TO COLARADO: Mika Zibanejad + One of (DeAngelo or Pionk) + 3rd Round Pick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why do the Rangers do this? They go into instant rebuild with 2 great pieces. The Avs get instantly better - No Question.
TO NEW YORK: 2019 (4th Overall+ 16th Overall)

You essentially trade 1 very high first rounder and 1 mid rounder for a suspect-franchise center and a suspect-top 4D.
Franchise Centers ARE RARELY AVAILABLE, but, given the Ranger's situation,, you MUST RISK TO GET.

You can add sweeteners on any side to adjust trade value BUT --- this is a fantastic premises for a rewarding trade for both teams looking to go in opposite directions.

 

[Byzantium]

Jason Zucker is small fish, With the assets the Avs have. They are 100% not going after him.

Think Mika Zibanejad or Claude Grioux or even Mikael Granlund ----- all big fish. Yes, it will take the 4th overall and a sweetener --- but, this will make the Avs true contenders.

I heard that Minnesota is looking into full-rebuild (Think Bruins' Kessel to Toronto type trade, with ZERO% UNCERTAINTY)

TO MINNESOTA: Mikael Granlund + One of (Brodin or Spurgeon) + 3rd Round Pick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why do the Wild do this? They go into instant rebuild with 2 great pieces. The Avs get instantly better - No Question.
TO COLARADO: 2019 (4th Overall+ 16th Overall)

You essentially trade 1 very high first rounder and 1 mid rounder for a suspect-franchise center and a suspect-top 4D.
Franchise Centers ARE RARELY AVAILABLE, but, given Minnie's situation and Granlund's recent struggles, you MUST RISK TO GET.

You can add sweeteners on any side to adjust trade value BUT --- this is a fantastic premises for a rewarding trade for both teams looking to go in opposite directions.

Yeah Granlund is not a "suspect-franchise center". And he doesn't even play for Minnesota

 

[OB34KNH]

Yeah Granlund is not a "suspect-franchise center". And he doesn't even play for Minnesota

Oh f***.