Injury Report: 16-17 "Robidas Island": All Inhabitants have left the Island

[Menzinger]

Why would Lupul jeopardize his potential future earnings by pretending to be injured to help the Leafs?

Unwrap the tinfoil.

Likely told that the Leafs had no interest in playing him and he can either sit back and collect his paycheque or ride the bus in the minors.

 

[seventieslord]

Likely told that the Leafs had no interest in playing him and he can either sit back and collect his paycheque or ride the bus in the minors.

Yeah, it's not the least bit difficult to imagine a scenario in which lupul goes along with it. But no, I've got a tinfoil hat.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Likely told that the Leafs had no interest in playing him and he can either sit back and collect his paycheque or ride the bus in the minors.

but either way he gets his money. like. this is the part that always cracks me up/frustrates me.
the Leafs didn't get any benefit from Lupul NOT showing up. they still paid him.
had he passed the physical, he'd be sent down the marlies where - ironically they'd save 950k.

so he "fakes" it and doesn't get paid, or he passes the phyiscal and gets paid.

(also I am mad because this was actually gonna be a debate topic )

 

[keon]

This is how I understand it:

LTIR gives teams flexibility to go over the cap, but not to it. The salary cap of Robidas, Horton and Lupul still applied to our cap hit this season, and in essence, we got no cap releif. The Leafs did not use any of our LTIR cap space this season which you can tell when we were ~100K under the cap at seasons end... if we used LTIR space, we'd be at 0. LTIR gave the leafs ability to ADD cap (up to ~12 million), but they didn't utilize it at the TDL. (A missed opportunity IMO, maybe we were planning on adding but deal(s) fell through).

Furthurmore, LTIR does not benefit the club when you take ELC bonuses into account. By placing Horton, Robidas and Lupul off LTIR, and sending them all to the AHL, we would have 2.85 million (950K each). This could have contributed to cap savings which COULD HAVE been used to the accumulated ELC bonuses for Matthews/Nylander/Marner.

Now, nearly the entire bonuses will go to our cap hit next season.

At the end of the day, because we didn't acquire any large contract(s), we would have been better off NOT having Lupul et al. on LTIR as it would have lower our commitment to rookie bonuses for next season.

Does this make sense?

Bobermay you are 99% right. Cap Space is a daily calculation as well as a season calculation. Our cap space is $73m for the year or approximately $400,000 each day of the 180+ day season. According to Cap Friendly Toronto finished the season with $241,900 of unused Cap Space but Toronto also used $63,299 of LTIR Cap Space. This means that Toronto was over the daily cap allowance a number of days during the season. When Toronto acquired Eric Fehr they essential went over the daily cap allowance and started to use Hortons LTIR allowance. Prior to the trade deadline Toronto was projected to finish the season $500,000 under the cap. On the Cap Friendly website there is a "button" for Daily Cap Tracker. Toronto was over the daily cap every day after Feb 28.

I believe Toronto could not send Horton or Robidas to the AHL. Players deemed to be injured while playing in the NHL can not be waived to the AHL until they pass a medical. Horton and Robidas were declared to have failed medicals in previous years and would likely never pass a medical at this years training camp. They therefore could not be waived to the AHL. Robidas also was subject to a +35 year of age at signing his contract. There is no AHL Cap Relief for +35 age signed contracts.

I am not sure that Toronto could successfully send Lupul to the AHL. Injured players can not be waived or bought out. Lupul declared himself injured during the buy-out period preventing Toronto from buying him out. As soon as the buyout period passed Lupul declared himself healthy and stated he wanted to attend training camp. Dr Kadri stupidly stated that Lupul was in terrific shape. Toronto did not have any intention of carrying Lupul on their roster and probable decided that a quiet trip to Robidas Island was better than attempting to send a disgruntled player on the Marlies roster. Pure conjecture on my behalf. I think if Toronto allowed Lupul to attend training camp he would have pulled the injury claim back out at the first sign of a possible demotion to the AHL. Admittedly alot of this is pure conjecture.

 

[bobermay]

Bobermay you are 99% right. Cap Space is a daily calculation as well as a season calculation. Our cap space is $73m for the year or approximately $400,000 each day of the 180+ day season. According to Cap Friendly Toronto finished the season with $241,900 of unused Cap Space but Toronto also used $63,299 of LTIR Cap Space. This means that Toronto was over the daily cap allowance a number of days during the season. When Toronto acquired Eric Fehr they essential went over the daily cap allowance and started to use Hortons LTIR allowance. Prior to the trade deadline Toronto was projected to finish the season $500,000 under the cap. On the Cap Friendly website there is a "button" for Daily Cap Tracker. Toronto was over the daily cap every day after Feb 28.

I believe Toronto could not send Horton or Robidas to the AHL. Players deemed to be injured while playing in the NHL can not be waived to the AHL until they pass a medical. Horton and Robidas were declared to have failed medicals in previous years and would likely never pass a medical at this years training camp. They therefore could not be waived to the AHL. Robidas also was subject to a +35 year of age at signing his contract. There is no AHL Cap Relief for +35 age signed contracts.

I am not sure that Toronto could successfully send Lupul to the AHL. Injured players can not be waived or bought out. Lupul declared himself injured during the buy-out period preventing Toronto from buying him out. As soon as the buyout period passed Lupul declared himself healthy and stated he wanted to attend training camp. Dr Kadri stupidly stated that Lupul was in terrific shape. Toronto did not have any intention of carrying Lupul on their roster and probable decided that a quiet trip to Robidas Island was better than attempting to send a disgruntled player on the Marlies roster. Pure conjecture on my behalf. I think if Toronto allowed Lupul to attend training camp he would have pulled the injury claim back out at the first sign of a possible demotion to the AHL. Admittedly alot of this is pure conjecture.

Thank you for the clarification.

At the end of the day though, the Leafs would have been better off this season to have lupul healthy and send him to the Marlies with Michalek and Laich, as it would have saved us about 950K in salary towards our rookie bonuses.

 

[Drew311]

but either way he gets his money. like. this is the part that always cracks me up/frustrates me.
the Leafs didn't get any benefit from Lupul NOT showing up. they still paid him.
had he passed the physical, he'd be sent down the marlies where - ironically they'd save 950k.

so he "fakes" it and doesn't get paid, or he passes the phyiscal and gets paid.

(also I am mad because this was actually gonna be a debate topic )

The Leafs want Lupul to stay "injured" because they want the flexibility of using his LTIR space. If he plays for the Marlies his entire cap hit minus $950K would count toward the cap payroll. They may not have needed or currently need that space, but you never know what deal could come along.

 

[Gabriel426]

Lupul's contract is insured, thus if both the Leafs and Lupul faked the injury... That's fraud, as the insurance company will be paying Lupul salary.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Yeah, it's not the least bit difficult to imagine a scenario in which lupul goes along with it. But no, I've got a tinfoil hat.

If only that were the only 2 people who had to agree to it, Lou, and Lupul then yes it might be that easy and happening.

That's not how it works though. An independant doctor and like the other guy mentioned insurance company would also have to sign off on the injury.

And like another guy mentioned, the Leafs would have been better off all 3 being healthy and sending all 3 guys to the minors to reduce our bonus cap overage by 2.85 million.

I'm sure 31 of 31 team would try to get anyway with it if they could and it helped them. Unfortunately you can't and it doesn't.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Thank you for the clarification.

At the end of the day though, the Leafs would have been better off this season to have lupul healthy and send him to the Marlies with Michalek and Laich, as it would have saved us about 950K in salary towards our rookie bonuses.

I think this would be obvious. As the quote states, Lupul clearly didn't want to be in the AHL and threatened to declare himself injured if he was being waived for the AHL, which would make him inadmissible to be demoted.

Hence, and this is speculation, Lupul was therefore given the choice between playing in the AHL or not playing, and he chose to "fail" the physical and not play.

He gets his money either way but this was perhaps preferable to Lupul, perhaps because he didn't want to "waste his time" on the Marlies...

But who knows...

 

[Warden of the North]

Likely told that the Leafs had no interest in playing him and he can either sit back and collect his paycheque or ride the bus in the minors.

...this doesnt answer my question.

If hes capable of playing and wants a new contract, then he has to play somewhere. In the scenario that he is faking an injury he is effectively ending his career.

I dont believe hes doing that. Hes injured and cannot pass a physical. End of story.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I believe Lou Lamoriello was brought in to do two things.

a) Instill a professional workplace with accountability

b) Bully the the players who don't fit that mold into submission

The tactics may be questionable, if not deplorable, the payoff is (hopefully) Stanley cups.

 

[namttebih]

Thank you for the clarification.

At the end of the day though, the Leafs would have been better off this season to have lupul healthy and send him to the Marlies with Michalek and Laich, as it would have saved us about 950K in salary towards our rookie bonuses.

Were MM and BL injured or healthy scratches? It doesn't appear as though either played a game in the playoffs.

 

[SprDaVE]

Were MM and BL injured or healthy scratches? It doesn't appear as though either played a game in the playoffs.

It wasn't really announced.

Laich was posting pictures from California on Instagram while the Marlies were in the playoffs.

 

[Anthrax442]

b) Bully the the players who don't fit that mold into submission

.

Oh no, how will they cope? Oh, right, they get paid lots of money

 

[Macallan18]

(also I am mad because this was actually gonna be a debate topic )

I am mad because a few years back I was at a game, perhaps imbibing too much with a lovely friend, and bought a Lupul sweater because he looks good in a suit.

 

[deletethis]

It wasn't really announced.

Laich was posting pictures from California on Instagram while the Marlies were in the playoffs.

His illogical trade demand was probably enough evidence on its own. However how his AHL season ended this season probably cements that he has zero chance at getting an NHL contract for next season.

If I were an NHL team (or even European team) looking for some veteran professionalism and depth on the free agent market, I'd immediately eliminate these vets who didn't take their demotion to the AHL as a "I'll show them" challenge. I hope Greening gets another chance because he sucked it up and contributed to the Marlies when he could have just as easily given up and collected his money.

 

[sxvnert]

Not yet folks. Now Lupul has the keys to the castle.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I believe Lou Lamoriello was brought in to do two things.

a) Instill a professional workplace with accountability

b) Bully the the players who don't fit that mold into submission

The tactics may be questionable, if not deplorable, the payoff is (hopefully) Stanley cups.

That's a bit dramatic. Any player who had thought they were treated unfairly could have and would have raised a stink through the player's association.

Horton can't play. Robidas is retired without saying it, so that he still gets paid. Lupul's situation seems a bit deeper than how the Leafs reported it, but the PA never flinched, so nobody must be that upset.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Laich apparently had surgery and was rehabbing on the beach.....for the whole season

 

[Raym11]

The most likely scenario with Lupul, is that he genuinely was injured, failed his physical, was told by the team that he wasn't in their plans, and is just taking it easy. The bare minimum to keep his contract with a handshake agreement from the brass - legal or not - that they won't challenge him on anything as long as he does this. Probably has some sort of job with the organization lined up when his contract ends as well.

Leafs don't care about the money, they care about winning now in that management group. This is my personal take/assumption. Joffrey Lupul isn't going to play ever again and is just "chilling" for lack of a better word.


He was banged up pretty much his entire career, finding a way to keep him on the Island would have been easy enough with all of his injury history.

 

[Menzinger]

...this doesnt answer my question.

If hes capable of playing and wants a new contract, then he has to play somewhere. In the scenario that he is faking an injury he is effectively ending his career.

I dont believe hes doing that. Hes injured and cannot pass a physical. End of story.

Situation though was that leafs had him under contract for multiple seasons. If they stuck him in the minors for that long at his age I doubt any new NHL team would have any interest in giving him a new contract once he hit UFa again even if technically healthy enough to keep playing.

Lupul seems like a smart guy, probably understood his NHL days are over and decided to take a sort of early retirement in comfort rather than ride the bus in the minors.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Laich apparently had surgery and was rehabbing on the beach.....for the whole season

He still ended up playing 27 games for the Marlies so it wasn't for the whole season. Although I guess that's why no one claimed him off waivers prior to the trade deadline when he wanted out.

 

[-DeMo-]

what I found really interesting about the Lupul situation is that the League announced a bunch of guys who were Expansion draft exempt because they have a long term injury like Horton/Robidas/Clarkson etc were on there but not Lupul, so not sure if the League sees him as a retired injured player.

 

[seventieslord]

If only that were the only 2 people who had to agree to it, Lou, and Lupul then yes it might be that easy and happening.

That's not how it works though. An independant doctor and like the other guy mentioned insurance company would also have to sign off on the injury.

And like another guy mentioned, the Leafs would have been better off all 3 being healthy and sending all 3 guys to the minors to reduce our bonus cap overage by 2.85 million.

I'm sure 31 of 31 team would try to get anyway with it if they could and it helped them. Unfortunately you can't and it doesn't.

Not quoting you to single you out, but you're the last person to reply to me on this matter.

Seems I was onto something. i wish I wasn't. This could turn out really badly.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Not quoting you to single you out, but you're the last person to reply to me on this matter.

Seems I was onto something. i wish I wasn't. This could turn out really badly.

Lupul has ways to officially grieve and he's taken none of them, until he takes an action it is pointless to speculate. It also seems very unlikely he will take any action and even if he did the worst case scenario is he plays in the AHL.