'16/'17 Norris Trophy winner: Brent Burns

[JackSlater]

Not an excuse it's the truth. Call me when a European player get's the Bergeron treatment or when a (European)"peak Kronwall-esque" defender get's awarded the Norris(as happened in Due Drews case).

The fact that Karlsson only got 2 Norrises when he should have 4 kinda doesnt help your argument. But it's ok it's natural that people are biased towards their own kin, that said it makes the NHL-awards kinda moot in general.

But sure if you got another way to explain the fact that the voters change the narrative to fit for a canadian defender year after year, even directly contradicting their own decision the year prior enlighten me. Doubt you will come up with anything though.

Yes, odd or inconsistent Norris results are the result of Canadian bias. History shows this. When Lidstrom won a very weak Norris over a superior defenceman (Weber) in 2011, it was bias. When Chara finished second for the Norris in 2014 despite being far from the second best defenceman in hockey (directly ahead of Weber and Pietrangelo) it was the same bias. When Chelios won close votes over Bourque despite Bourque being a far better offensive player, it was that bias. When Rod Langway beat out prime Bourque/Potvin/Howe for Norris trophies despite them having 2.5 times as many points as him and being comparable defensively, it was bias. Same as Langway beating Coffey for the Norris when Coffey outscored him by nearly 100 points. Carlyle beating prime Potvin for the Norris after barely outscoring him and being far, far worse defensively must be bias too.

In NHL history, clearly all wrongheaded or inconsistent Norris trophies are the result of bias. Without a doubt.

 

[JeremyTB]

Burns had the Norris wrapped up in February. The only thing Karlsson was able to do was make it a closer race. People saying Karlsson got robbed are the people who are only looking at the last 2 months and not the 1st 4 months. You have to look at the whole season. Burns overall had better stats and was better 5 on 5.

 

[beaniewong]

Point Finishes Among Defensmen Each Month: Burns Vs Karlsson

Burns: 1,3,3,1,3,29,17

Karlsson: 4,3,5,13,2,2,17

6 point difference came when Burns had 18 points in January to Karlsson's 12

Pre All Star game: Burns - 51, Karlsson - 39

Post All Star Game: Burns - 25, Karlsson - 32

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

Congrats to Burns. What a beard.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Burns winning this season makes much more sense than Doughty winning last season.

Sure, but last season's voting being an even bigger joke, doesn't make this season's fair.

Both Doughty and Burns' Norrises over Karl have been pure cowmate-crap.

 

[RDTBay4]

Karlsson and Burns are both forwards playing D.

The award criteria should be changed to simply award it to the Dman with the most points or something, because it has nothing to do with playing defense most seasons.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Karlsson and Burns are both forwards playing D.

The award criteria should be changed to simply award it to the Dman with the most points or something, because it has nothing to do with playing defense most seasons.

It has to do with which defensemen contribute the most/are the best all over the ice. Beeing good offensively is a huge part of beeing a good defensemen. The rink isnt close to big enough for defensemen or forwards to just play on one side of the puck and be effective at an elite level.

 

[Alwalys]

Karlsson and Burns are both forwards playing D.

"I don't watch either of these players and know next to nothing about them"

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I don't think it's just a Canaidan bias, although I think that certainly plays a part, despite some people not wanting tot admit that. I think it more has to do with Ottawa being one if the smallest markets in the league. I laugh at all the SJ and LA fans that always complained that nobody watches their team and their defensemen get no attention because of it. Yes, nobody watches the 2 time cup champs and Stanley Cup finalist at the time of this season. Let's be honest here, nobody really watches Ottawa, and it shows when everybody was acting like Karlsson was doing something remarkable in the playoffs. No, that's just how he usually plays, you just started watching that's all.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

I don't think it's just a Canaidan bias, although I think that certainly plays a part, despite some people not wanting tot admit that. I think it more has to do with Ottawa being one if the smallest markets in the league. I laugh at all the SJ and LA fans that always complained that nobody watches their team and their defensemen get no attention because of it. Yes, nobody watches the 2 time cup champs and Stanley Cup finalist at the time of this season. Let's be honest here, nobody really watches Ottawa, and it shows when everybody was acting like Karlsson was doing something remarkable in the playoffs. No, that's just how he usually plays, you just started watching that's all.

Disagree.
There are a lot of Toronto guys that champion K. McKenzie, LeBrun immediately come to mind. Think it's just "Karlsson fatigue", there's a subset of media that are tired of him being a finalist/winning every year and they want others to win, while still giving K enough votes that he at least gets a finals berth. On top of that, there's the narrative factor. K will likely end with 5+ Norris, but he'll pick up some of them post 30.

 

[Mr Spock]

I don't think it's just a Canaidan bias, although I think that certainly plays a part, despite some people not wanting tot admit that. I think it more has to do with Ottawa being one if the smallest markets in the league. I laugh at all the SJ and LA fans that always complained that nobody watches their team and their defensemen get no attention because of it. Yes, nobody watches the 2 time cup champs and Stanley Cup finalist at the time of this season. Let's be honest here, nobody really watches Ottawa, and it shows when everybody was acting like Karlsson was doing something remarkable in the playoffs. No, that's just how he usually plays, you just started watching that's all.

In a country where hockey is religion, the bias follows naturally. Sad but true.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Are people seriously suggesting there is a Canadian bias against Karlsson? Especially after 2015 where Karlsson arguably wasn't the rightful choice?.....

No one should be surprised that Burns won. They talked about it since the beginning of the season, the. Karlsson caught fire and really made it an interesting race. Get credit where credit is due, it was close and both were deserving.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Karlsson didn't win the Norris last year due to the same reason Doughty didn't win it the year prior, because their team's did not qualify for the playoffs. Burns was also the best player on his team all season long and performed well above the likes of Pavelski, Couture, Thornton, Marleau, etc. He eclipsed the next highest scoring Sharks dman by 48 points.

Karlsson had a phenomenal year as well, but his best performance happened when Norris voting isn't taking place.

I'd say any votes omitting Karlsson in their top two votes is what is more preposterous than Karlsson not winning the Norris.

 

[CrypTic]

I don't think it's just a Canaidan bias, although I think that certainly plays a part, despite some people not wanting tot admit that. I think it more has to do with Ottawa being one if the smallest markets in the league. I laugh at all the SJ and LA fans that always complained that nobody watches their team and their defensemen get no attention because of it. Yes, nobody watches the 2 time cup champs and Stanley Cup finalist at the time of this season. Let's be honest here, nobody really watches Ottawa, and it shows when everybody was acting like Karlsson was doing something remarkable in the playoffs. No, that's just how he usually plays, you just started watching that's all.

You act like that's something unusual. But that was the same thing that happened to Thornton and Burns the prior season. Sharks fans had been saying that they were great for a long time but, bc the media didn't say it, few paid attention and wondered why we hadn't traded Thornton years ago. To a lesser but still large extent, the same thing happened with Kopitar and Doughty until the Kings' Cup run. It wasn't just Karlsson this season. Unless a player plays for an O6 or big market (east coast) team, they tend to get overlooked until their team makes it at least to the conference finals. IF they shine there, ppl might pay attention. There are exceptions like McDavid but they were hyped before they started playing in the NHL.

It's how it is for most teams. I get that you don't notice bc you're between Toronto and Montreal and they don't have that problem so you compare the hype their players get to yours. But their players are the exceptions.

 

[BonAppleTea]

Unfortunate that he didnt win. But the playoff performance will give him a huge advantage this next season however strange that is, I think his case will be stronger than before any other season. I expect hart nominations and a strong case for the norris in the media all season long, deserved or not. A "he did that on one leg, imagine what he can do now that he is healthy" kind of storyline will fit the media good.
Regardless, he is still the player every defenseman is measured against every single year and a few missed trophies wont matter in the end.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

You act like that's something unusual. But that was the same thing that happened to Thornton and Burns the prior season. Sharks fans had been saying that they were great for a long time but, bc the media didn't say it, few paid attention and wondered why we hadn't traded Thornton years ago. To a lesser but still large extent, the same thing happened with Kopitar and Doughty until the Kings' Cup run. It wasn't just Karlsson this season. Unless a player plays for an O6 or big market (east coast) team, they tend to get overlooked until their team makes it at least to the conference finals. IF they shine there, ppl might pay attention. There are exceptions like McDavid but they were hyped before they started playing in the NHL.

It's how it is for most teams. I get that you don't notice bc you're between Toronto and Montreal and they don't have that problem so you compare the hype their players get to yours. But their players are the exceptions.

Oh I know it's not something that's exclusive to Ottawa, just for this particular season, with these particular nominees it was. With Burns it was the same way last season, finishing 3rd in Norris voting when both him and Karlsson were clearly the better choices for the Norris over Doughty. Then SJ makes the finals, and people start to realize how ****ing good Burns is. This season starts and he gets far more attention than he's ever gotten. Perhaps we'll see that with Karlsson next year after his trip to the ECF, but seeing as how frustrating the changing criteria is every season, I'm no longer betting on EK to win the Norris.

 

[CrypTic]

Oh I know it's not something that's exclusive to Ottawa, just for this particular season, with these particular nominees it was. With Burns it was the same way last season, finishing 3rd in Norris voting when both him and Karlsson were clearly the better choices for the Norris over Doughty. Then SJ makes the finals, and people start to realize how ****ing good Burns is. This season starts and he gets far more attention than he's ever gotten. Perhaps we'll see that with Karlsson next year after his trip to the ECF, but seeing as how frustrating the changing criteria is every season, I'm no longer betting on EK to win the Norris.

I think he'll get a lot more attention after these playoffs. I'm glad bc he deserves it.

Really, I doubt that he cares all the much about another Norris. I'm sure it would be nice but the main thing is helping the team win. As a fan, enjoy watching your team, especially incredible talents like Karlsson. He's a joy to watch.

I get mad at the media bias toward a few teams too but, as long as it's about $$$, that probably won't change.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Should've gone to Karlsson.

 

[Mr Spock]

Are people seriously suggesting there is a Canadian bias against Karlsson? Especially after 2015 where Karlsson arguably wasn't the rightful choice?.....

No one should be surprised that Burns won. They talked about it since the beginning of the season, the. Karlsson caught fire and really made it an interesting race. Get credit where credit is due, it was close and both were deserving.

The bias is against Euros, even a bit against US Americans. Its natural!! The phenom would occure in any country, but is more evident in Canada, partly due to the unpresidented
love you show for the game and partly due to money. Promoting the own kin boosts intrest and leads to filled arenas.

On the other hand, the antibias amongst the true hockeylovers in Canada is also unique. You have both sides.

I'd say that the negative bias is evident amongst sleezy journalists, pimplefaced teens and the Cherrytypes. For instance, no Euro will never ever be alloud to get higher ranked than Wayne or Bobby. Thats a fact.

I can live with all this and I'm eternally grateful and happy towards Canada and the NHL for giving our guys the opportunity to play in the best league in the world.

Peace and out

 

[GreatGonzo]

Unfortunate that he didnt win. But the playoff performance will give him a huge advantage this next season however strange that is, I think his case will be stronger than before any other season. I expect hart nominations and a strong case for the norris in the media all season long, deserved or not. A "he did that on one leg, imagine what he can do now that he is healthy" kind of storyline will fit the media good.
Regardless, he is still the player every defenseman is measured against every single year and a few missed trophies wont matter in the end.

he's going to get Norris credit for this up coming season for his playoff run this last year?...

I don't think it works like that.

The bias is against Euros, even a bit against US Americans. Its natural!! The phenom would occure in any country, but is more evident in Canada, partly due to the unpresidented
love you show for the game and partly due to money. Promoting the own kin boosts intrest and leads to filled arenas.

On the other hand, the antibias amongst the true hockeylovers in Canada is also unique. You have both sides.

I'd say that the negative bias is evident amongst sleezy journalists, pimplefaced teens and the Cherrytypes. For instance, no Euro will never ever be alloud to get higher ranked than Wayne or Bobby. Thats a fact.

I can live with all this and I'm eternally grateful and happy towards Canada and the NHL for giving our guys the opportunity to play in the best league in the world.

Peace and out

The NHL loves Karlsson, they have never stopped raving about him, especially when the playoffs happened. Burns did not get the same treatment in the media or with the NHL in general.

 

[johan f]

Anyway, when THN rank the players in yearbook this coming fall Karlsson will be ranked top 5 and Burns not.

 

[Barrie22]

he's going to get Norris credit for this up coming season for his playoff run this last year?...

I don't think it works like that.


The NHL loves Karlsson, they have never stopped raving about him, especially when the playoffs happened. Burns did not get the same treatment in the media or with the NHL in general.

It is how it works though. The previous playoffs do play a part in media hype to start the years.

Burns had the karlsson smythe run the previous season with the cup finals run. And then came out guns a blazing in this season and took an early and commanding lead in the best defensemen talk. By the time the all star game came around burns had all but wrapped up the norris. The slump at the end just made the voting closer. If burns had kept up with his season all year round, the voting would have been more like the calder voting where burns got all but a handful of 1st place votes.

 

[Barrie22]

Anyway, when THN rank the players in yearbook this coming fall Karlsson will be ranked top 5 and Burns not.

And burns will be right behind him in no worse then 10th.

Nhl.com has then ranked 6th and 8th respectively.

 

[discostu]

I think Karlsson should have won, but am not too upset about it. Burns had a great season.

Even without the win, Karlsson is cementing his legacy. This is a really good era for defenceman, and Karlsson is the one most consistently in the Norris conversation for the last 5 years.

While these guys are all focused on winning in general, the fact that Burns is the first defenceman to beat him in the scoring race in a long time probably helped push Karlsson farther.

While it can be frustrating, as there's obviously some sentiment of voters that look to diversify the award winners at times, which has probably hurt Karlsson the last two seasons, there's also going to be the times when Karlsson doesn't have the best season, but, voters are going to select him out of habit if there's no other easy contenders. Lidstrom won at least one that way.

 

[Slimmy]

Yes, odd or inconsistent Norris results are the result of Canadian bias. History shows this. When Lidstrom won a very weak Norris over a superior defenceman (Weber) in 2011, it was bias. When Chara finished second for the Norris in 2014 despite being far from the second best defenceman in hockey (directly ahead of Weber and Pietrangelo) it was the same bias. When Chelios won close votes over Bourque despite Bourque being a far better offensive player, it was that bias. When Rod Langway beat out prime Bourque/Potvin/Howe for Norris trophies despite them having 2.5 times as many points as him and being comparable defensively, it was bias. Same as Langway beating Coffey for the Norris when Coffey outscored him by nearly 100 points. Carlyle beating prime Potvin for the Norris after barely outscoring him and being far, far worse defensively must be bias too.

In NHL history, clearly all wrongheaded or inconsistent Norris trophies are the result of bias. Without a doubt.

If you think Canadian writers would campaign for anyone but a Canadian, you are terribly naïve.