Value of: 15th, 20th & Lias Anderson

[HuGo Sham]

Don't think Canadians will do this and strongly suspect fans want no part of rebuild. But should they? I would say yes.

habs already have 14 picks in the draft including a top 7-8 pick at worst. they're not going to move domi for two mid-late 1sts. They don't need more picks; they need to get into the top 5 if they can and trade for a young LD

 

[Dan Kelly]

That's cool. We already have a 60 point Center. Don't need to spend 2 magic beans for one.

though Monahan makes the Rangers instantly better which i'm willing to bet is what the majority of Rangers fans would desire?

 

[TGWL]

though Monahan makes the Rangers instantly better which i'm willing to bet is what the majority of Rangers fans would desire?

But not at the cost of that package, and if we traded for him, we're not paying a premium with the expectations of 40 goal scorer. What we really need is a way to put Zibby with Panarin, and if that's happening that we need a solid #2 who could carry a line, or a winner who could make a center better. That and a 1st pair LD.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

And please no canadian fans take over. Its a ranger question not canadian. As I said I would trade domi for 2 1's and I know canadian's fans would not.

Stop speaking for habs fans then? you are a Flyers fan stick to your own team its like a habs fan suggesting the flyers trade one of your young stud Dman for the 15th and 20th pick would piss you off too right? Domi is young and 6-7m for him is peanuts hell we don't even know if he will command that much he might sign below 6m a year.

As for the thread at hand maybe Danault would be a target? on the right side of 30 and has been getting better every year since he was traded to the habs of course theres going to be tweaks here and there but just an idea.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Stop speaking for habs fans then? you are a Flyers fan stick to your own team its like a habs fan suggesting the flyers trade one of your young stud Dman for the 15th and 20th pick would piss you off too right? Domi is young and 6-7m for him is peanuts hell we don't even know if he will command that much he might sign below 6m a year.

As for the thread at hand maybe Danault would be a target? on the right side of 30 and has been getting better every year since he was traded to the habs of course theres going to be tweaks here and there but just an idea.

I so love bait and switch. Danault with 1 year left on his contract has zero zero zero possible of getting multiple 1's. By all means Danault is a nice player and I think you should spend and resign in offseason. But Hamilton would not get 2 1's with 1 year until free agency let alone Danault. 3 weeks ago maybe you could have pre deadline. But Berge was a coward.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Stop speaking for habs fans then? you are a Flyers fan stick to your own team its like a habs fan suggesting the flyers trade one of your young stud Dman for the 15th and 20th pick would piss you off too right? Domi is young and 6-7m for him is peanuts hell we don't even know if he will command that much he might sign below 6m a year.

As for the thread at hand maybe Danault would be a target? on the right side of 30 and has been getting better every year since he was traded to the habs of course theres going to be tweaks here and there but just an idea.

Please understand if I was Rangers I would go to the Flyers in offseason and offer Kravsov and higher 1 for Sanheim in a millisecond. Its not the wrong value. I would say no but I appreciate the thought process. But instead throw a hissy fit and lets get 175% of value with player with 1 year left on deal. You are thinking like a canadian fan and not asking would Rangers do that.

 

[Baksfamous112]

A 1 and Anderson I think gets Manson or Risto.
2 1's and Anderson good conversation start for Ekblad if Florida tears it down
2 1's should get Domi but Habs fans will cry foul.

Good start.

First round picks are useless for us if we’re talking about a young roster player

I definitely would not give two firsts for domi

We’re as interested in Domi for picks as you are with Konecny for picks. Useless offer

 

[Flyer lurker]

First round picks are useless for us if we’re talking about a young roster player



We’re as interested in Domi for picks as you are with Konecny for picks. Useless offer

I just want to say thank you Ron Hexhall for disagreeing and trading 2c B Schenn for 2 1's which turned into Farabee and Frost.

 

[tsujimoto74]

A 1 and Anderson I think gets Manson or Risto.
2 1's and Anderson good conversation start for Ekblad if Florida tears it down
2 1's should get Domi but Habs fans will cry foul.

Good start.

Casey Mittelstadt 2.0 and a middling 1st don't do anything to help Buffalo. Not sure why you think we'd move Risto for that. We have no need for busts and assets that might help in 3 years.

 

[bernmeister]

Concerns about expansion draft are overstated.

You can make a deal with Seattle for them to take the right guy.

I'm not worried about the expansion draft.

while NY is in relatively good position and thus should not fear exdrft, that is based on our current status, which changes if we take on a net add of guys we have to protect.
In other words, to defeat this problem, we need to deal an equal or greater number of guys who have to be protected than the number we accept.

Bold: you are making a statement of hope, not fact.
Yes there is a track record of some willingness in the past by a drafting club to go there, but is no current guarantee.
If Sea. wants to play hardball, it can demand an onerous tribute to take a specific guy, which if not paid results in that guy being selected.
Either way, not preferable/desirable, and we screw ourselves by ceding control.

We have an idea of what our real true core is, and we should be careful about surplus pieces, even if they are useful. Guys like Strome and Buchnevich each have a value; if a suitor offers market price, take it.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

I so love bait and switch. Danault with 1 year left on his contract has zero zero zero possible of getting multiple 1's. By all means Danault is a nice player and I think you should spend and resign in offseason. But Hamilton would not get 2 1's with 1 year until free agency let alone Danault. 3 weeks ago maybe you could have pre deadline. But Berge was a coward.

It is a very easy thing to add an extention to the deal no? it has happened more then you think. PG Pageau being an example that just happened this trade deadline. A little common sense goes a long way my friend of course I didn't expect the offer to be without an extension but I guess its my bad for not mentioning it.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Please understand if I was Rangers I would go to the Flyers in offseason and offer Kravsov and higher 1 for Sanheim in a millisecond. Its not the wrong value. I would say no but I appreciate the thought process. But instead throw a hissy fit and lets get 175% of value with player with 1 year left on deal. You are thinking like a canadian fan and not asking would Rangers do that.

No one is throwing a hissy fit you are just pissed off that I called you out on mentioning players from another team you don't know anything about and have no emotion to that specific team. That is why I mentioned you flyers fans trading one of your young studs because for me I have no emotional connection to them see where I am coming from?

 

[bernmeister]

It appears NY will have to expand parameters to achieve objectives.

for example,
Buchnevich is a great fit for Oil, but we have not been able to agree on price.

something around Buch + both NYR + the other 2020 1st + Lias for
for
Broberg [an LD who was 8OA and who is exp dr exempt] + 2022 1st [top 10 protected]....

Gives NY an LD who is developing nicely, with a year development under his belt, fits end of next season [less than 10 games do not burn elc] and following year ready to roll. Plus a 1st for down the road when Oil can absorb giving it.

Oil get immediate top 6 W help w/Buch + a 4C who will bust butt to prove he can hack NHL + two 1sts for this year.

something like that.

something like dat?

 

[Baksfamous112]

I just want to say thank you Ron Hexhall for disagreeing and trading 2c B Schenn for 2 1's which turned into Farabee and Frost.

But at the time Philly needed the picks and prospects. Montreal already have a deep prospect pool. They just need time to develop and (not) trade our skilled 24 years old center for more... picks

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

It appears NY will have to expand parameters to achieve objectives.

for example,
Buchnevich is a great fit for Oil, but we have not been able to agree on price.

something around Buch + both NYR + the other 2020 1st + Lias for
for
Broberg [an LD who was 8OA and who is exp dr exempt] + 2022 1st [top 10 protected]....

Gives NY an LD who is developing nicely, with a year development under his belt, fits end of next season [less than 10 games do not burn elc] and following year ready to roll. Plus a 1st for down the road when Oil can absorb giving it.

Oil get immediate top 6 W help w/Buch + a 4C who will bust butt to prove he can hack NHL + two 1sts for this year.

something like that.

something like dat?

In no universe is Broberg + 1st worth a young productive top 6 winger and 3 1sts. Your undervaluing of Buch is disgusting.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

With the Rangers holding the 15th (their own pick) the 20th (Car pick) and Lias, is there a rebuilding team that would move a youngish top 4 LD or a youngish 2nd line center?

No thanks, Rangers should not trade away the picks.

 

[Blaine8797]

W

First round picks are useless for us if we’re talking about a young roster player



We’re as interested in Domi for picks as you are with Konecny for picks. Useless offer

wdym we’ve never had interest in trading tk tho, idk why a rebuilding team wouldn’t want firsts in this super deep draft

 

[Flyer lurker]

But at the time Philly needed the picks and prospects. Montreal already have a deep prospect pool. They just need time to develop and (not) trade our skilled 24 years old center for more... picks

Montreal is pick 8-10th worst record with 1 top 35 pick. They need the picks and prospects. You can NEVER have enough picks and prospects.
Montreal has 5 really good ufa's in 2021. You have to make a decision and Montreal honestly is most fascinating end of season team.
Either A give up some of the youth/picks and go for it this year. If you sign/trade for stud and happen to lose Tatar and or Petry for nothing in free agency, so be it.What is not an option is trading for a Getzlaf or Kopitar type for youth not named CC, paying Domi, not trading Drouin, and signing all 5 fa's in 2021. It doesn't fit cap wise. I think this is wrong plan. You may want them to balls to the wall. We will see what Berge does.
B Figure out which free agent (ufa 2020 or own 2021) you are signing this summer and listen to trades for others. I would have traded Petry 3 weeks ago. I'm on record. I do not pay 33 year old d men 4 years in free agency. Too high risk he becomes Yandle all O and no D in 2 years. So Gall and Danault I go full blitz to try to resign day 1 I can.
C Montreal's biggest problem is how to get Batman as they have 8 Robin's on their team. Gallagher Domi Danault etc all very nice players. Nice supporting cast. But there isn't a Batman in the bunch.The only potential Batman is Caufield (KK may turn into good player but 90 point 1c I don't see it). Free agents do not sign in Montreal because of the taxes. You have to find Batman in the draft or trade.

 

[Baksfamous112]

wdym we’ve never had interest in trading tk tho, idk why a rebuilding team wouldn’t want firsts in this super deep draft

We don’t have any interest in trading Domi either unless a similar aged top 3 D is coming the other way. That’s what I was trying to say.

Montreal is pick 8-10th worst record with 1 top 35 pick. They need the picks and prospects. You can NEVER have enough picks and prospects.
Montreal has 5 really good ufa's in 2021. You have to make a decision and Montreal honestly is most fascinating end of season team.
Either A give up some of the youth/picks and go for it this year. If you sign/trade for stud and happen to lose Tatar and or Petry for nothing in free agency, so be it.What is not an option is trading for a Getzlaf or Kopitar type for youth not named CC, paying Domi, not trading Drouin, and signing all 5 fa's in 2021. It doesn't fit cap wise. I think this is wrong plan. You may want them to balls to the wall. We will see what Berge does.
B Figure out which free agent (ufa 2020 or own 2021) you are signing this summer and listen to trades for others. I would have traded Petry 3 weeks ago. I'm on record. I do not pay 33 year old d men 4 years in free agency. Too high risk he becomes Yandle all O and no D in 2 years. So Gall and Danault I go full blitz to try to resign day 1 I can.
C Montreal's biggest problem is how to get Batman as they have 8 Robin's on their team. Gallagher Domi Danault etc all very nice players. Nice supporting cast. But there isn't a Batman in the bunch.The only potential Batman is Caufield (KK may turn into good player but 90 point 1c I don't see it). Free agents do not sign in Montreal because of the taxes. You have to find Batman in the draft or trade.

Montreal already have one of the best prospect pool in the league. Adding one or two first round pick is a luxury, not a necessity - Especially not at the expense of a 24 years old Domi -

As for what Montreal will do this off season; Bergevin already hinted that a forward will be traded. He also said that he will offer contracts to those he believe will be there long term (Danault, Gallagher, Petry, Armia) and then he will gauge the market with those who are unwilling to sign a new deal. Chances are that either Lehkonen or Tatar will be moved in a hockey deal (A top 4 D?).

No player is a sure 90 points player until they are. We will see about Suzuki, Caufield, Kotkaniemi and whoever they pick in June but they could reach it at some point. I don’t doubt that for a second.

 

[bernmeister]

In no universe is Broberg + 1st worth a young productive top 6 winger and 3 1sts. Your undervaluing of Buch is disgusting.

Lias A is not worth a 1st currently and is not likely to be worth one anytime soon.
He could play well and eventually up his value, but if we recover enough of it now I would just as soon let him go now.

So corrected, your critique is
a top 6 W requiring protection and 2 firsts
for
an 8OA not requiring protection who is an LD fitting like a glove where we are going now PLUS a delayed 1st

If the delayed 1st offsets one of the 2020 1sts
that leaves Buch + a single 2020 1st for a highly regarded LD prospect.

No, it's not my valuation that is disgusting.
It is your hate.
You have pretty much never agreed or liked anything I've ever said, regardless of any objective measure of the position, as is the case above,.

Buch should not be underrated and given away, but those overrating him do no one a service. This is Buch we are talking about here, not Kreider, Zib, etc.

 

[Flyer lurker]

No one is throwing a hissy fit you are just pissed off that I called you out on mentioning players from another team you don't know anything about and have no emotion to that specific team. That is why I mentioned you flyers fans trading one of your young studs because for me I have no emotional connection to them see where I am coming from?

If you are trying to make trades based on emotional connection you will never offer a trade that the other side says yes. You will try to rip the other guy off. This is why you will see a Canadian fan say Price is a stud and wouldn't trade him if they had to retain. This is why a canadian fan says they want 2 1's for danault with 1 year left on deal. This is why when Canadian fan trade offers go out for Kopitar of course the Kings will retain 3m and take on Alzner's gem of a contract. You are a passionate Canadian fan GOOD FOR YOU! All sincerity love the passion of NHL fan. Just show me realistic moves canadians can or can't do. Yes i see where you are coming from. Do you see why this a flaw?

 

[Flyer lurker]

We don’t have any interest in trading Domi either unless a similar aged top 3 D is coming the other way. That’s what I was trying to say.



Montreal already have one of the best prospect pool in the league. Adding one or two first round pick is a luxury, not a necessity - Especially not at the expense of a 24 years old Domi -

As for what Montreal will do this off season; Bergevin already hinted that a forward will be traded. He also said that he will offer contracts to those he believe will be there long term (Danault, Gallagher, Petry, Armia) and then he will gauge the market with those who are unwilling to sign a new deal. Chances are that either Lehkonen or Tatar will be moved in a hockey deal (A top 4 D?).

No player is a sure 90 points player until they are. We will see about Suzuki, Caufield, Kotkaniemi and whoever they pick in June but they could reach it at some point. I don’t doubt that for a second.

Well thought out and all good if you want to keep Domi.
I don't see KK as batman potential, we'll find out.
CC and Suzuki are your hopes.
Just one final thought. If Berge is hinting to trade Tatar, shouldn't he have done so three weeks ago? Even if for futures no rule against retrading the future this offseason verse the value of 1 year Tatar.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Well thought out and all good if you want to keep Domi.
I don't see KK as batman potential, we'll find out.
CC and Suzuki are your hopes.
Just one final thought. If Berge is hinting to trade Tatar, shouldn't he have done so three weeks ago? Even if for futures no rule against retrading the future this offseason verse the value of 1 year Tatar.

We will see with Kotkaniemi but at the same age Suzuki was playing in the OHL while Kotkaniemi already have a year and a half under his belt at the NHL level and is currently a PPG C at the AHL level. He’s also 19 years old (turn 20 in August) and was eligible for the WJC this year. Skillset is there to be dominant in the NHL in the near future.

As for Tatar, I don’t mind waiting at the draft to either sign him to a new or (most likely) trade him. I can’t speak for Bergevin but at least teams will be able to speak about a contract extension with Tatar if dealt at the draft. That should be able to raise his value a little bit. Also, if we’re talking about pure future deal, it would make sense for Bergevin to see where he is going to draft first. If he wins the lottery or draft where a few LW are supposed to go, then it makes even more sense to trade Tatar now. Another reasons would be to see exactly where the other teams are going to draft. You could argue that sending him to Dallas at the trade deadline (example) could land him the #21 overall++ OR #31 overall++ and those does not have the same value. Taking out that risk by knowing exactly where the other team is going to draft might be important for Bergevin.

Another possibility is that there’s already a hockey trade in place for either Tatar or Lehkonen and that the other GM felt he needed the player going the other way this year for a playoff push? There were a lot of smokes/rumour about Montreal really liking Graves and Colorado really liking both Lehkonen and Tatar. If Colorado felt that they needed Graves this year and that next year Byram could take its spot then it would make sense for that trade to happen in June.

 

[Flyer lurker]

We will see with Kotkaniemi but at the same age Suzuki was playing in the OHL while Kotkaniemi already have a year and a half under his belt at the NHL level and is currently a PPG C at the AHL level. He’s also 19 years old (turn 20 in August) and was eligible for the WJC this year. Skillset is there to be dominant in the NHL in the near future.

As for Tatar, I don’t mind waiting at the draft to either sign him to a new or (most likely) trade him. I can’t speak for Bergevin but at least teams will be able to speak about a contract extension with Tatar if dealt at the draft. That should be able to raise his value a little bit. Also, if we’re talking about pure future deal, it would make sense for Bergevin to see where he is going to draft first. If he wins the lottery or draft where a few LW are supposed to go, then it makes even more sense to trade Tatar now. Another reasons would be to see exactly where the other teams are going to draft. You could argue that sending him to Dallas at the trade deadline (example) could land him the #21 overall++ OR #31 overall++ and those does not have the same value. Taking out that risk by knowing exactly where the other team is going to draft might be important for Bergevin.

KK we shall see and 3 years from now maybe you will be rofl at me. We'll see.
With Tatar I think you could have gotten the Coleman type of trade 3 weeks ago. Maybe I'm wrong 2 postseasons with Tatar seems worth 1 and prospect equal to a 1. You then can trade 1 and a little gravy in the offseason (not the prospect you just received) say for Montour or Risto and get your top 4 d-man. Total net hypothetically is Tatar and 3 for very good prospect and Risto. Trading Tatar with one year on deal is a lot harder. It takes a team trying to win in 20/21, needing a scoring winger, and willing to give up a d man because they have 5 good ones.Maybe it happens just thinking its harder. And if you think better move is to extend Tatar at say 6-36, hey I get it but someone still would have to go by 2021.

 

[Kupo]

You have pretty much never agreed or liked anything I've ever said, regardless of any objective measure of the position, as is the case above.

Has anyone...?