Line Combos: 14/15 Coaching Options Thread - Updated Lines/Practice/PP/PK/Captaincy

[Cousin Eddie]

We made this thread last year and it worked out well so why not do it again.

We have a thread for roster moves where a lot of coaching things are discussed but no place to really go for discussions of coaching options.
If any of you have ever played the EA sports NHL series you may notice in be a GM mode there are GM Options (for roster moves) and Coaching options. I've decided to take this video game format to help clean up our boards a little and also to hopefully get a little more discussion going. This will also allow visiting fans to see our current lineup since I will try my best to keep the OP updated with our most recent lines.
Mods, this may be a good idea for a sticky, or maybe it's a bad idea completely and if so it can be deleted or merged with another thread. I'll leave that decision up to you.
Here's what we should discuss:

Practice: Posters can keep us updated on the info they read or see at practice. Also
we can discuss things we think should be worked on in practice. Which leads me to the next topic....
Special Teams: Let's discuss our Powerplay and Penalty Kill. Who's been good? Who's been bad? Do you like our formations?
Line Combinations: What do you think of the combos Roy has been using? Who do you think should be where?
Captaincy/Jersey Numbers: Who should be wearing the letters? Who on the team leads but doesn't need a letter to prove it? Who will be our future leaders?

This thread worked out well last year so let's keep er' goin.


Most recent lines: Game November 2nd, 2014

92 Landeskog(C) - 9 Duchene - 90 O'Reilly
11 Mcginn - 29 Mackinnon - 12 Iginla(A)
40 Tanguay - 7 Mitchell - 45 Everberg
25 Talbot - 24 Cliche - 55 McLeod

8 Hejda - 6 Johnson
17 Stuart - 4 Barrie
2 Holden - 5 Guenin

1 Varlamov
20 Berra

Scratches: 48 Briere, 22 Redmond
Injured: 44 Wilson, 58 Bordeleau, 18 Winchester

Click to read more...

 

[Avs71]

Good idea. Maybe having that other thread going was bad luck. New team, new thread.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Guenin isn't getting out of the lineup anytime soon, he's one of the few Avs that understands Roy's system.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

in my opinion we may be able to improve by fixing some problems internally. We have a lot of talent and a lot of potential but a weak prospect pool. I wouldn't trade too much of that away.

I'd take out Guenin and Holden and give Redmond and Siemens a shot.


Hejda EJ
Siemens Barrie
Stuart Redmond


No I don't think Siemens is better than Stuart. I just think Stuart's a better fit for Redmond.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Good idea. Maybe having that other thread going was bad luck. New team, new thread.

#AvsNewAge


Really though, when I looked at the OP in the old thread I saw that Stastny was in the lineup while our two scratches were Guenin and Holden. That's the dream. I wanted to cry

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Guenin isn't getting out of the lineup anytime soon, he's one of the few Avs that understands Roy's system.

You may be right. I hate Guenin but if he's the only person doing what the coach is asking it's hard to expect the coach to take him out.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

You may be right. I hate Guenin but if he's the only person doing what the coach is asking it's hard to expect the coach to take him out.

It's honestly the only explanation I can come up with as to why his useless ass is still in the lineup most nights.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Guenin isn't getting out of the lineup anytime soon, he's one of the few Avs that understands Roy's system.

Did you see him on that one play last night? Dude is standing there yelling at other players to cover the guy he should clearly be picking up. Dude might understand what should happen, but on that play he showed absolutely no ability to adjust to the situation on the ice. Yes, that should have been Iggys man based on the positions everyone plays. But based on where everyone was at on the ice at the time, that is a guy Guenin has to pick up. That was an extremely stupid play by Guenin. Absolutely brain dead decision.

And I was all for letting him play after the last couple games. But definitely not after that. If you are too slow to really do much of anything, you better always be in the right position and doing what you are suppose to be doing. Slow and stupid is a terrible combination.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Did you see him on that one play last night? Dude is standing there yelling at other players to cover the guy he should clearly be picking up. Dude might understand what should happen, but on that play he showed absolutely no ability to adjust to the situation on the ice. Yes, that should have been Iggys man based on the positions everyone plays. But based on where everyone was at on the ice at the time, that is a guy Guenin has to pick up. That was an extremely stupid play by Guenin. Absolutely brain dead decision.

And I was all for letting him play after the last couple games. But definitely not after that. If you are too slow to really do much of anything, you better always be in the right position and doing what you are suppose to be doing. Slow and stupid is a terrible combination.

The thing with man to man D is that you have to trust your partners. If Guenin switches men, the whole system is screwed and the Avs will run around in their own zone until the shift is over.
I don't like Guenin, but I disagree with the system more than I did with him on that play. If I were in that situation I would have 100% went after Fowler but I would do that knowing i'm going completely against what my coach asked of me. Guenin did what he was supposed to do. But he still sucks.

 

[RockLobster]

Here's what we should discuss:

Practice: Posters can keep us updated on the info they read or see at practice. Also
we can discuss things we think should be worked on in practice. Which leads me to the next topic....
Special Teams: Let's discuss our Powerplay and Penalty Kill. Who's been good? Who's been bad? Do you like our formations?
Line Combinations: What do you think of the combos Roy has been using? Who do you think should be where?
Captaincy/Jersey Numbers: Who should be wearing the letters? Who on the team leads but doesn't need a letter to prove it? Who will be our future leaders?

Why do I have a feeling that for a few pages (at some point in this thread) there will be talk of stripping Landeskog of the "C" and putting it on Duchene?

I'm all for this thread, but I would hope that the majority of the time is spent discussing the other things Kento listed rather than that last part.

 

[RockLobster]

The thing with man to man D is that you have to trust your partners. If Guenin switches men, the whole system is screwed and the Avs will run around in their own zone until the shift is over.
I don't like Guenin, but I disagree with the system more than I did with him on that play. If I were in that situation I would have 100% went after Fowler but I would do that knowing i'm going completely against what my coach asked of me. Guenin did what he was supposed to do. But he still sucks.

But when you go back and watch, all Guenin has to really do is get in the lane...he didn't even bother to move the 1-2 feet to get in the way of Fowler.

Was that supposed to be Iginla's man? It sure looked like it, but does that prevent Guenin from moving 1-2 feet to his right and blocking the clear-as-day lane Fowler had to the net?

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Really liked Nate's development last year and the work Footer put in with him(hello straight arm shiver), but he's got cement in his skates this season and isn't moving his feet. Given his limited skillset, this has led to abysmal performances on most nights. Needs to sit.

 

[Frenchy]

Really liked Nate's development last year and the work Footer put in with him(hello straight arm shiver), but he's got cement in his skates this season and isn't moving his feet. Given his limited skillset, this has led to abysmal performances on most nights. Needs to sit.

You're right , he 's not the same player as last year . Right now he's a bottom Dman , that's all

BTW, you should post more often

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Really liked Nate's development last year and the work Footer put in with him(hello straight arm shiver), but he's got cement in his skates this season and isn't moving his feet. Given his limited skillset, this has led to abysmal performances on most nights. Needs to sit.

Took me a minute to realize you were talking about Gueinin. I thought this post was about Mackinnon and I couldn't even begin to figure out how to respond

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Roy moved MacKinnon back to wing last night in the 3rd, but I hated it. Right when he's starting to get going, you can't jerk him around some more. Leave him at center, and switch Landy and Iginla on the lines.

I'd much rather have Redmond in over Guenin, but that's not going to fix the defense.

And if Everberg gets sent down when Winchester returns, then nothing is right in the world.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The thing with man to man D is that you have to trust your partners. If Guenin switches men, the whole system is screwed and the Avs will run around in their own zone until the shift is over.
I don't like Guenin, but I disagree with the system more than I did with him on that play. If I were in that situation I would have 100% went after Fowler but I would do that knowing i'm going completely against what my coach asked of me. Guenin did what he was supposed to do. But he still sucks.

There HAS to be switching with a man to man D. Otherwise you get plays like that one. Switching men, picking up the proper guy in transition (even if thats not technically your man) and picking up the proper guy after a TO (again, even if its not your man) is probably the most important aspect of man to man D. Man to man is just as much of a team defense as a zone D is. There is just absolutely no way that each player can be responsible for just 1 specific player all the time. It has to be more fluid than that. There has to be some give in responsibilities. But apparently Roy does not see it that way. Seriously, dumbest philosophy ever.

And if Everberg gets sent down when Winchester returns, then nothing is right in the world.

Oh, you know it will happen. Cant risk Cliche to waivers. And for some reason we need Wilson rotting away as part of the 23 man roster.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Man to man defensive coverage does not mean you pick a player and stick with him the entire shift. It means having 5 on 5 coverage in all situations. Transitions of assignments is still crucial to the success of such a system, and it hinges on communication and, yes, trust in your teammates. Whenever an opponent is suddenly open with the puck, you transition the closest player to them and have a full cycle of coverage, allowing your beaten defender/open player to pick up the guy furthest away(aka causing the least danger).

Unfortunately, this isn't a table hockey game where guys go in straight lines. These are world class players, and a system needs to make the necessary adjustments to succeed.

 

[bohlmeister]

Man to man defensive coverage does not mean you pick a player and stick with him the entire shift. It means having 5 on 5 coverage in all situations. Transitions of assignments is still crucial to the success of such a system, and it hinges on communication and, yes, trust in your teammates. Whenever an opponent is suddenly open with the puck, you transition the closest player to them and have a full cycle of coverage, allowing your beaten defender/open player to pick up the guy furthest away(aka causing the least danger).

Unfortunately, this isn't a table hockey game where guys go in straight lines. These are world class players, and a system needs to make the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Wouldn't this mean that Nate Guenin should cover the guy in the slot and Iginla cover the forward at the point? Roy isn't saying that, unless he was referring to Iginla losing his coverage earlier in the play, and the house of cards that is our system falling to pieces as a result.

Also worth noting that Guenin was completely gassed at the end of this play. Was stuck out for a long shift.

 

[Freudian]

The problem with how Guenin handled the situation is that it exposed his low hockey IQ. He can move two yards and angrily gesture at Iginla and it's not a scoring chance. But he doesn't recognize the situation at all and allows a guy to walk right past him to score the game winner because he is 100% focused on who should cover who instead of preventing goals.

Deal with the situation and then you can discuss who should have covered who on the bench afterwards.

 

[Hesher]

Guenin isn't getting out of the lineup anytime soon, he's one of the few Avs that understands Roy's system.

He didn't look like he knew what to do on the Fowler goal. I know that it was Iginla that lost Fowler but Guenin should have done better.

 

[Foppa2118]

Roy moved MacKinnon back to wing last night in the 3rd, but I hated it. Right when he's starting to get going, you can't jerk him around some more. Leave him at center, and switch Landy and Iginla on the lines.

I'd much rather have Redmond in over Guenin, but that's not going to fix the defense.

And if Everberg gets sent down when Winchester returns, then nothing is right in the world.

This is the one thing that I think Roy screwed up on royally. He compounded the teams's problems by constantly shuffling the lines. A couple or few times would have been understandable, but there's been almost no consistency at all to develop chemistry, after some fairly big positional and roster changes in the top 6.

The team can't score, and they can't read off each other in the defensive zone, but he thinks it's smart to keep moving the pieces around.

He talks a lot about them not panicking, but it feels like he's ben panicking since the start of training camp when he left the lines he talked about in the summer together for 1 preseason games, and continually shuffled things up, never really kept the same units together for more than a couple games all year.

 

[Pokecheque]

What hasn't been pointed out yet (or maybe it has been) is that when Roy moved MacKinnon to Duchene's wing and O'Reilly down w/McGinn and Iginla, he took two players who are below-average defensively and put them on the same line, which at first didn't bother me because I figured he was trying to get them away from that deadly Ducks top line by putting his best two scoring forwards on one line and his best defensive forward on another. But then McNab immediately pointed out that Roy sent THAT line out there against Getzlaf/Perry. Seriously? MacKinnon/Duchene against the Ducks top line!? I was incredulous. I had to check to make sure this was a home game, because no way would Roy be stupid enough to do that if he had last change. Maybe Boudreau made the switch during the shift when he saw the matchup, either way Boudreau coached circles around Patty last night and this was but one example.

Sure enough, the puck ends up in the Avs zone and Roy immediately puts O'Reilly out there to take the draw. Just one of many moves that is making me openly question Roy's approach here. He wants up-tempo offensive hockey, yet deploys a bunch of slow pylons who can do nothing other than chip the puck off the boards. He wants Landeskog and O'Reilly to do all the scoring and all the defense. He put together a scoring line last night he didn't trust. He continues to ice a 4th line he obviously doesn't trust in any situation at even strength. He continues to put Tanguay on the point on the power play when it is CLEARLY not working. I don't get what he's trying to accomplish out there, but I hope he figures it out, and fast.

 

[bohlmeister]

Ok. I've confused myself now.

So if we are playing man 2 man coverage, and our d-man wins the battle and gets the puck away. Doesn't that also mean that the opposition is in perfect position to defend us? If everyone is in position correctly, and we get possession, what is the exit strategy?

 

[CobraAcesS]

#AvsNewAge


Really though, when I looked at the OP in the old thread I saw that Stastny was in the lineup while our two scratches were Guenin and Holden. That's the dream. I wanted to cry

LOL... that sums up so much, and also directly contradicts the whole 'Fixing the depth issues' they underwent in the off-season.

I'm guessing Cliche is not on the team at the time of that OP either...

Ok. I've confused myself now.

So if we are playing man 2 man coverage, and our d-man wins the battle and gets the puck away. Doesn't that also mean that the opposition is in perfect position to defend us? If everyone is in position correctly, and we get possession, what is the exit strategy?

That's a fair question, there has to be some breaking point to the man to man coverage.

 

[Freudian]

Ok. I've confused myself now.

So if we are playing man 2 man coverage, and our d-man wins the battle and gets the puck away. Doesn't that also mean that the opposition is in perfect position to defend us? If everyone is in position correctly, and we get possession, what is the exit strategy?

It's hard having set breakout plays when your defensive shape can be anything. In a normal defensive system where you have defenders low, usually the center somewhat low and the wingers high it's easier to get the puck up the ice quickly since you know where players usually are and the center is in a good position to help relieve the defenders.