Post-Game Talk: #11 | FLYERS (H) vs. Bruins (A) | Wednesday, Feb. 3, 2021 | Loss 4-3 (OT)

[ybnvs]

Where's the kale smoothie? f***!!

 

[deadhead]

This sounds like a "dog in China" joke

Nah, Georgia has great food, best place I ate at however, wasn't in Tbilisi but along the highway on the way to the mountains NE of the city, which turned out to be near the border with Chechnya. Picnic tables and amazing food.

Now the food in Armenia sucked, I was told because all the chefs emigrated to Sacramento!

 

[kudymen]

Now the food in Armenia sucked, I was told because all the chefs emigrated to Sacramento!

Oh I like to complain about some unjust stuff in my nation's past, but compared to the stuff Armenia had/has to go through due to being located near Russia, Ottoman Empire etc, I should be very much quiet

 

[TB87]

Sanheim & Provorov rankings among 26 defenseman with at least 190 TOI at 5v5

Sanheim’s good guys.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

View attachment 392893


Sanheim & Provorov rankings among 26 defenseman with at least 190 TOI at 5v5
View attachment 392896


Sanheim’s good guys.

If he gets just a bit stronger on the boards and with the puck in the defensive zone, he could be legitimately amazing and a real 1B for us.

 

[Amorgus]

@Appleyard

Is that a pizza vaj?

 

[TB87]

If he gets just a bit stronger on the boards and with the puck in the defensive zone, he could be legitimately amazing and a real 1B for us.

I’d argue that he’s the teams #1 and he’s just getting 1B TOI. The team plays Provorov a lot but I think that that diminishes his effectiveness. He’s a very good DZ defender and a solid transition player. If he’s not shooting on the PP he’s slowing things down way too much. I’d give him a break from the PP and have him focus on 5v5 & the PK. That’s just me though.

Sanheim is the team’s most creative and dangerous creator of offense from the blue line at 5v5. I’m not sure 50/50 battles will ever be a strength of his. However, I’d wager that he wins about a league average rate of those among defenseman. He’s got the physical tools to recover really well when a pinch or aggressive offensive play doesn’t work out. A solid net-positive player.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

I’d argue that he’s the teams #1 and he’s just getting 1B TOI. The team plays Provorov a lot but I think that that diminishes his effectiveness. He’s a very good DZ defender and a solid transition player. If he’s not shooting on the PP he’s slowing things down way too much. I’d give him a break from the PP and have him focus on 5v5 & the PK. That’s just me though.

Sanheim is the team’s most creative and dangerous creator of offense from the blue line at 5v5. I’m not sure 50/50 battles will ever be a strength of his. However, I’d wager that he wins about a league average rate of those among defenseman. He’s got the physical tools to recover really well when a pinch or aggressive offensive play doesn’t work out. A solid net-positive player.

No disagreement at all on him being far more creative than Provorov in the offensive zone. Good player, indeed.

 

[deadhead]

Oh I like to complain about some unjust stuff in my nation's past, but compared to the stuff Armenia had/has to go through due to being located near Russia, Ottoman Empire etc, I should be very much quiet

Yeah, when you get into the "most screwed by history" the Armenians, Jews, Koreans are front runners.
Never a good idea to own real estate between major empires or on the most accessible migration routes.

 

[renberg]

I’d argue that he’s the teams #1 and he’s just getting 1B TOI. The team plays Provorov a lot but I think that that diminishes his effectiveness. He’s a very good DZ defender and a solid transition player. If he’s not shooting on the PP he’s slowing things down way too much. I’d give him a break from the PP and have him focus on 5v5 & the PK. That’s just me though.

Sanheim is the team’s most creative and dangerous creator of offense from the blue line at 5v5. I’m not sure 50/50 battles will ever be a strength of his. However, I’d wager that he wins about a league average rate of those among defenseman. He’s got the physical tools to recover really well when a pinch or aggressive offensive play doesn’t work out. A solid net-positive player.

Totally agree that too much is being asked of Provorov right now. Somewhat agree with you on Sanheim. However I need to add that when Myers decides to go big on the offense he is a heck of a force since he will go down low and throw his body around more effectively than Sanheim does. He has great wheels and his shot is a howitzer. JMO but Myers may end up being the best of the top three defensemen in two years.

 

[deadhead]

View attachment 392893

Sanheim & Provorov rankings among 26 defenseman with at least 190 TOI at 5v5
View attachment 392896

Sanheim’s good guys.

He's good offensively, so is Carlson.
But how good would he be if he didn't have Myers to CYA?

Myers has more upside than Sanheim, a shutdown defender is more valuable than a scoring defenseman (b/c they're so rare these days). His strength, length and speed are pretty rare.

Provorov misses Niskanen. Gave him a security blanket and more opportunity to attack the O-zone and use his shot (he's not a playmaker like Sanheim but has a better wrist shot).

 

[Magua]

Good lord. I can’t.

I’d argue that he’s the teams #1 and he’s just getting 1B TOI. The team plays Provorov a lot but I think that that diminishes his effectiveness. He’s a very good DZ defender and a solid transition player. If he’s not shooting on the PP he’s slowing things down way too much. I’d give him a break from the PP and have him focus on 5v5 & the PK. That’s just me though.

Sanheim is the team’s most creative and dangerous creator of offense from the blue line at 5v5. I’m not sure 50/50 battles will ever be a strength of his. However, I’d wager that he wins about a league average rate of those among defenseman. He’s got the physical tools to recover really well when a pinch or aggressive offensive play doesn’t work out. A solid net-positive player.

My first thought when Sanheim activated down low and made those two excellent passes was......is there another defenseman on the team with the instincts and playmaking to do that? Consistently? Sanheim is far and away the best defensive playmaker below the circles. Provorov has his wrist shot and individual change creation skills, but I don’t think he’s ever made a seam pass like that in his career.

It’s a travesty (zing!) that the best CHL PP defenseman can’t get regular PP time in the NHL. Let alone when you see Provorov QB the top unit because of roles. From his strengths, the annoying nit picking of his game, weird usage.....I always think of Douglas Hamilton. He’s more of a scorer, but charting how Hamilton arrived at last season’s player wasn’t without some of the same obstacles.

 

[TB87]

Good lord. I can’t.



My first thought when Sanheim activated down low and made those two excellent passes was......is there another defenseman on the team with the instincts and playmaking to do that? Consistently? Sanheim is far and away the best defensive playmaker below the circles. Provorov has his wrist shot and individual change creation skills, but I don’t think he’s ever made a seam pass like that in his career.

It’s a travesty (zing!) that the best CHL PP defenseman can’t get regular PP time in the NHL. Let alone when you see Provorov QB the top unit because of roles. From his strengths, the annoying nit picking of his game, weird usage.....I always think of Douglas Hamilton. He’s more of a scorer, but charting how Hamilton arrived at last season’s player wasn’t without some of the same obstacles.

Sanheim unleashed is one of my favorite things to watch. He feels free to ball out when he’s paired with Myers. Those two bring out the best in each other.

Ive heard from an unreliable/contrarian source that Sanheim doesn’t have the instincts to play PP1...

 

[FLYguy3911]

I used to think there was a possibility that I was overrating Sanheim's offensive impact since when he started his Junior career I was just beginning to regularly watch Junior games and didn't quite have the measuring stick, but now that I have a better frame of reference from watching the better part of 7 years, he's one of the most instinctive offensive players I've ever seen from the backend. He doesn't quite flash his skill enough to the level I know he is capable of, but he just does not miss open teammates with passes. He just has a knack for getting pucks to high danger areas that few defensemen can. That's stuff you can't teach and why I scoff at people that think Myers is >. Myers is a great individual talent and having quite a start to his season, but he just does not see the game the same way and never will.

I'm working on a historical CHL scoring project and in Sanheim's last year he had a primary assist on more than 12% of his team's goals at ES. That is absurd. That's 100th percentile for defensemen who have played at least 30 games in a season since 2008. It's one of the better indicators of future success I've found.

Here is the company:
Ryan Ellis
Morgan Rielly
P.K. Subban
Tony DeAngelo
Ty Smith
Thomas Chabot
Dougie Hamilton
Mikhail Sergachev
Samuel Girard

Sanheim's lowest primary assist rate (his rookie year in the WHL) was comparable to Provorov's best season when apparently there was no debate as the who was the best defenseman in the WHL that year. When Sanheim was on the ice that season, Calgary's goal scoring rate more than double compared to when he was off the ice. This is what drove me crazy about the "who was the better prospect?" at that time. To say I was in the minority would be an understatement (go check the poll results). Sanheim was so much better offensively that even if he never improved defensively or if Provorov was equally as good defensively as Sanheim was offensively, there was still a 50/50 chance he was a better prospect.

Here is a snapshot of Flyers defensemen (you're welcome for the Bigras and Wotherspoon stats). This is just the ES stats. If you incorporate PP scoring Sanheim was a near 40% involvement guy as a defensemen. Many forwards don't even hit that mark. Just absurd he doesn't get regular PP time. Not even a real chance to fail.

 

[Starat327]

I used to think there was a possibility that I was overrating Sanheim's offensive impact since when he started his Junior career I was just beginning to regularly watch Junior games and didn't quite have the measuring stick, but now that I have a better frame of reference from watching the better part of 7 years, he's one of the most instinctive offensive players I've ever seen from the backend. He doesn't quite flash his skill enough to the level I know he is capable of, but he just does not miss open teammates with passes. He just has a knack for getting pucks to high danger areas that few defensemen can. That's stuff you can't teach and why I scoff at people that think Myers is >. Myers is a great individual talent and having quite a start to his season, but he just does not see the game the same way and never will.

I'm working on a historical CHL scoring project and in Sanheim's last year he had a primary assist on more than 12% of his team's goals at ES. That is absurd. That's 100th percentile for defensemen who have played at least 30 games in a season since 2008. It's one of the better indicators of future success I've found.

Here is the company:
Ryan Ellis
Morgan Rielly
P.K. Subban
Tony DeAngelo
Ty Smith
Thomas Chabot
Dougie Hamilton
Mikhail Sergachev
Samuel Girard

Sanheim's lowest primary assist rate (his rookie year in the WHL) was comparable to Provorov's best season when apparently there was no debate as the who was the best defenseman in the WHL that year. When Sanheim was on the ice that season, Calgary's goal scoring rate more than double compared to when he was off the ice. This is what drove me crazy about the "who was the better prospect?" at that time. To say I was in the minority would be an understatement (go check the poll results). Sanheim was so much better offensively that even if he never improved defensively or if Provorov was equally as good defensively as Sanheim was offensively, there was still a 50/50 chance he was a better prospect.

Here is a snapshot of Flyers defensemen (you're welcome for the Bigras and Wotherspoon stats). This is just the ES stats. If you incorporate PP scoring Sanheim was a near 40% involvement guy as a defensemen. Many forwards don't even hit that mark. Just absurd he doesn't get regular PP time. Not even a real chance to fail.

View attachment 393002

You arent really trying to say that Sanheim is better than Provorov, are you? lol.

 

[BritainStix]

Sanheim also gets to play with Myers in a R-L combo.

Provorov has had a bit of a rotating door partner situation this season.

 

[deadhead]

Good lord. I can’t.



My first thought when Sanheim activated down low and made those two excellent passes was......is there another defenseman on the team with the instincts and playmaking to do that? Consistently? Sanheim is far and away the best defensive playmaker below the circles. Provorov has his wrist shot and individual change creation skills, but I don’t think he’s ever made a seam pass like that in his career.

It’s a travesty (zing!) that the best CHL PP defenseman can’t get regular PP time in the NHL. Let alone when you see Provorov QB the top unit because of roles. From his strengths, the annoying nit picking of his game, weird usage.....I always think of Douglas Hamilton. He’s more of a scorer, but charting how Hamilton arrived at last season’s player wasn’t without some of the same obstacles.

Snaheim has not looked good on the PP, for some reason he's just looks more comfortable skating and making plays than standing at the blue line, patiently surveying the action and being decisive. Ghost and Gus are our best two PP guys, Provorov really should only be on the PP as a 2nd D-man who attacks the net when the defense ignores him, otherwise he should CYA for his partner.

It's very possible that Sanheim never gets a lot of PP time, if the reports that York excels in that role are true. He's actually better on the PK where his speed and reach allows him to be disruptive (and balancing his limitations fighting for pucks).

 

[Striiker]

Myers gets to play with Sanheim, not the other way around.

Provorov has got to play with Ghost, Sanheim, Niskanen, Sanheim again, and now Ghost again. All of which are better than Myers.

Problem is, Provorov needs to be with one of these top pair quality players to stay afloat (and even then sometimes he can't) and has never been the lead dog on those pairs in anything other than TOI. Meanwhile Sanheim has done so with Provorov, Myers, Gudas, and even a guy like Braun.

 

[Starat327]

Sanheim also gets to play with Myers in a R-L combo.

Provorov has had a bit of a rotating door partner situation this season.

I dont have the data in front of me, but I believe Sanheims numbers were better than Provorovs when they played a decent amount of time together and Sanheim was on his offside. Sanheim has always had the much higher offensive ceiling (id argue ceiling in general) over Provorov.

 

[deadhead]

Myers gets to play with Sanheim, not the other way around.

Provorov has got to play with Ghost, Sanheim, Niskanen, Sanheim again, and now Ghost again. All of which are better than Myers.

Problem is, Provorov needs to be with one of these top pair quality players to stay afloat (and even then sometimes he can't) and has never been the lead dog on those pairs in anything other than TOI. Meanwhile Sanheim has done so with Provorov, Myers, Gudas, and even a guy like Braun.

Ok. Whatever you say.

Meaningless because it ignores roles.

Niskanen was aging, but the perfect partner for Provorov.
When Sanheim is with Provorov, Sanheim keeps the puck and Provorov moves into a support role.
When Myers is at RHD, he's still a work in progress, but provides a security blanket like Niskanen, less based on experience and smarts, more on the ability to outskate both his and his partner's mistakes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Roles are overrated. Roles are death.

 

[Striiker]

I dont have the data in front of me, but I believe Sanheims numbers were better than Provorovs when they played a decent amount of time together and Sanheim was on his offside. Sanheim has always had the much higher offensive ceiling (id argue ceiling in general) over Provorov.

Since the start of 2018-2019, Sanheim and Provorov have played 990 minutes at 5v5 together.

Sanheim - 5 goals, 17 points
Provorov - 3 goals, 10 points

Overall at 5v5 during that timeframe...

Sanheim - 0.31 goals/60, 1.11 points/60
Provorov - 0.26 goals/60, 0.69 points/60

 

[BritainStix]

I dont have the data in front of me, but I believe Sanheims numbers were better than Provorovs when they played a decent amount of time together and Sanheim was on his offside. Sanheim has always had the much higher offensive ceiling (id argue ceiling in general) over Provorov.

To be fair, I would always hope that Sanheim would be better than Provorov offensively. I still firmly believe that Provorov is better defensively and likely always will be. We're lucky to have them both.

 

[tictactoe]

this idiot at it again.