10% Increase in Season Ticket Prices

[Beerfish]

Not sure if you're blatantly ignoring what I meant, or if you didn't understand. You can't compare prices of entertainment options to each other, you have to compare them to themselves to see if inflation is also increasing their costs compared to history.

Have NFL prices remained the same since the 80's? Baseball? Movies? Concert tickets? No. They haven't.

And let's stay away from sub-par leagues when talking about sports prices. Very clearly a lower-quality league is going to have lower prices.

By using the terms 'sub par' and 'low quality' you have begun to enforce your own definitions of entertainment value which really should not come into this discussion no?

Looking at 'value' for the dollar entertainment wise with sports leagues being equal a team like the Eskimos is FAR ahead of an Oiler team that has put out a very poor and relatively boring product for a number of years. Considering a set of season tickets to the pro football team will cost you about the same as a couple of hockey games the value is higher.

Instead of people just nodding and saying oh well we have to pay another 10% this year and redoubtably more with a new arena (that of itself is going to bring in much more money ticket prices aside.) people should be telling the Oilers to cut costs and cut the fat that they are now paying for. Katz is pretty free with season ticket holders money when it comes to keeping certain people ion the payroll.

 

[K1984]

This just isn't accurate though. Resale prices have been poor. Up to 50% of local Oiler resales have not captured sticker price on the ticket. I followed this much of the season and easy enough to do with the NHL resale site. You can follow exactly how many tickets are available and in what price ranges. Actually 50% of those offered this year were typically for less than the LOWEST priced ticket price offered for Oiler tickets. Meaning that most oiler tickets were offered for less than the cost of gallery tickets. Shocking, I realize.

Which is why I qualified it by saying "as long as they aren't as bad as the last two seasons."

The last two years have been literally the only time since 2006 where you could go to any weeknight game for $20-30 in the 200's, which is also when this organization hit absolute rock bottom. As recently as the lockout year where the Oilers were somewhat close to a playoff spot, you would be lucky to get a spot in the high end of the 200's for under $80 a piece for a weeknight game against a non-marquee opponent. A Saturday night game? That's at least a $110 touch, and the Oilers weren't even that good. In fact, in conversations that I had with season ticket holders prior to the last two years, many mentioned that if they couldn't go to a game they could sell the tickets and always make money.

Cherry picking the two worst years of an organization's history to prove your point on resale values is pretty misleading.

 

[Replacement*]

Not sure if you're blatantly ignoring what I meant, or if you didn't understand. You can't compare prices of entertainment options to each other, you have to compare them to themselves to see if inflation is also increasing their costs compared to history.

Have NFL prices remained the same since the 80's? Baseball? Movies? Concert tickets? No. They haven't.

And let's stay away from sub-par leagues when talking about sports prices. Very clearly a lower-quality league is going to have lower prices.

If you're calling me out on this I'll call out that you are completely ignoring that 1000% inflation for pretty much any product or service is highly abnormal.

Certainly you know theres a difference between increase and wantom increase in sticker price. with really no word to reflect current Oiler ticket prices. Gouging just doesn't cut it.

in terms of NHL ticket prices Edmonton ticket prices have had the most inflation in 25 yrs. Original 6 clubs had higher prices to begin with. A ticket in NY or Toronto or Montreal you expected to pay more than in a smaller market like Edmonton. Edmonton NHL tickets have inflated like no other. I've been researching this trend for decades ftr.

 

[Replacement*]

Which is why I qualified it by saying "as long as they aren't as bad as the last two seasons."

The last two years have been literally the only time since 2006 where you could go to any weeknight game for $20-30 in the 200's, which is also when this organization hit absolute rock bottom. As recently as the lockout year where the Oilers were somewhat close to a playoff spot, you would be lucky to get a spot in the high end of the 200's for under $80 a piece for a weeknight game against a non-marquee opponent. A Saturday night game? That's at least a $110 touch, and the Oilers weren't even that good.

Cherry picking the two worst years of an organization's history to prove your point on resale values is pretty misleading.

But that reads like qualifying your comment that scalpers will make a killing with something that hasn't actually been happening. you can see how I would read that as flimsy argument. The latter comment is worse as its been several worst years in a row for the club. Around 8 yrs. Why would you state 2. Its not convincing of your argument to be intentionally misleading or label mine as cherry picking when its quite clearly not. Tickets to Oilers games have been given away for multiple years. Tickets have resaled at lower price points for years.

 

[McGoMcD]

By using the terms 'sub par' and 'low quality' you have begun to enforce your own definitions of entertainment value which really should not come into this discussion no?

Looking at 'value' for the dollar entertainment wise with sports leagues being equal a team like the Eskimos is FAR ahead of an Oiler team that has put out a very poor and relatively boring product for a number of years. Considering a set of season tickets to the pro football team will cost you about the same as a couple of hockey games the value is higher.

Instead of people just nodding and saying oh well we have to pay another 10% this year and redoubtably more with a new arena (that of itself is going to bring in much more money ticket prices aside.) people should be telling the Oilers to cut costs and cut the fat that they are now paying for. Katz is pretty free with season ticket holders money when it comes to keeping certain people ion the payroll.

I agree, and we just went back 5 pages. Dont' pay for it then.

 

[OilTastic]

Fully agreed with you on this Replacement along with a couple of other posters Gord etc. I find it troubling the excuses being made for the increase when clearly this has no benefit other than for one guy. It is pure, unadulterated greed and sorry unlike the crowd who believes in the "just don't go" this is much more than that. I would bet most people in Edmonton are not too pleased considering the majority are not fans who very likely will be paying for a billionaires new arena without any benefit whatsoever to them. I believe the majority of people who actually believe in equality are fed up with the tired, old excuses and change will come whether or not people care or not.
It should be repeated the increase was coming regardless of McDavid and new management and coaching.
Lastly I definitely would not buy season tickets even though I have the ability to do so notwithstanding I don't live there either.

all i know is asking for 10% more is pretty galling! yes things are likely to improve from here on out, and we have our shiny new toy coming in the arena, and our other shiny new toy in McDavid coming, but jeez....10% ?

 

[shoop]

I agree, and we just went back 5 pages. Dont' pay for it then.

Exactly. No one is forcing a gun to anyone's head and making them pay outrageous ticket prices.

 

[doulos]

"Gouging" isn't always even a bad thing. In many ways artificially keeping prices lower than they should ends up creating a bigger mess.

Then you have politicians who think it's a good idea to enact anti price gouging laws during times of crisis which makes an even bigger mess when guys buy up ALL of the fuel then resell it back at even higher prices on the black market. Hilarious.

Economics is a wonderfully complex thing. So fun to discuss but tough to nail down right answers. Humans are selfish creatures by our very nature, so as long as you expect that then you won't be too let down!

 

[K1984]

But that reads like qualifying your comment that scalpers will make a killing with something that hasn't actually been happening. you can see how I would read that as flimsy argument. The latter is worse as its been several worst years in a row for the club. Around 8 yrs. Why would you state 2. Its not convincing of your argument to be intentionally misleading or label mine as cherry picking when its quite clearly not. Tickets to Oilers games have also been given away for multiple years. Tickets have resaled at lower price points for years.

You're simply wrong. I've been buying tickets to 10+ Oilers games per season since the lockout on the secondary market. I'm not making this up. The last two years were the worst in this organization's 40 year history which is why you could go to games for a $20 steal. This simply was not the case in any other Oilers season since the 06 lockout.

 

[McGoMcD]

"Gouging" isn't always even a bad thing. In many ways artificially keeping prices lower than they should ends up creating a bigger mess.

Then you have politicians who think it's a good idea to enact anti price gouging laws during times of crisis which makes an even bigger mess when guys buy up ALL of the fuel then resell it back at even higher prices on the black market. Hilarious.

Economics is a wonderfully complex thing. So fun to discuss but tough to nail down right answers. Humans are selfish creatures by our very nature, so as long as you expect that then you won't be too let down!

Great post! you say a lot with a few words.

So just to back up a bit, why am I so admit that markets function well? The reason is if I said that gravity didn't exist I would be laughed at. Yet, saying markets are completely irrational is like saying gravity doesn't exist. it is quite literally been proven wrong. Thus it hurts me to hear that, i come across like some free market idea log with an ax to grind, yet I am not. I am stating gravity exists. Thats it.

 

[shoop]

Great post! you say a lot with a few words.

So just to back up a bit, why am I so admit that markets function well? The reason is if I said that gravity didn't exist I would be laughed at. Yet, saying markets are completely irrational is like saying gravity doesn't exist. it is quite literally been proven wrong. Thus it hurts me to hear that, i come across like some free market idea log with an ax to grind, yet I am not. I am stating gravity exists. Thats it.

While I completely agree with your sentiments economics can't be proven like things in the physical sciences.

It is just ridiculous to expect government intervention in hockey ticket prices. It's a private good and the price will be whatever the market will bear.

 

[Replacement*]

You're simply wrong. I've been buying tickets to 10+ Oilers games per season since the lockout on the secondary market. I'm not simply making this up. The last two years were the worst in this organization's 40 year histor which is why you could go to games for a $20 steal. This simply was not the case in any other Oilers season since the 06 lockout.

Agree to disagree. The main thing that has changed is the NHL resale site which to my knowledge is a more recent resale avenue. I love the stats on that site as you get the total tickets offered, how many in each pricepoint, etc. A great resource for a cynic like me that loves to take a look.

also for years STH have been giving tickets away and not going. Its not a new thing. You've just noted it more in recent years.

Finally, it is possible that the NHL resale site is doing devalue to resale prices by allowing yet another ticket resale option and which people may be more comfortable using than other agents. so maybe that has served to increase resale amount of tickets offered and lower resale price. Just speculation on that.

 

[NewBoysClub97*]

I know we used to re-sell most of our tickets until the past two years.

I was literally giving them away for free on gamedays at our business and customers would not take them. They had all day to ask others to go , etc, but didn't want them.

Donated a few, but unfortunately I was so busy that a lot just went into the garbage.

 

[McGoMcD]

While I completely agree with your sentiments economics can't be proven like things in the physical sciences.

It is just ridiculous to expect government intervention in hockey ticket prices. It's a private good and the price will be whatever the market will bear.

Of course, in the social sciences you can't prove things like the the physical sciences, but you can prove quite a bit. That is why we have to qualify a statement like well and poor. Well you don't have to say a rock drops well to the ground, so in the sense that you have to qualify your answer, yes, you can't prove things in economics like the physical sciences. However, once you get a good qualification in place, I think we have, you can state certain laws. It has been proven, look up the effecient market hypothesis that indeed it is impossible to claim that markets are fully irrational. It is statistically proven that most variation in market prices can't be explained by known things. Thus at the point of the price change the market took in all available information. Thus, the market priced the good well.

You can state certian things with a sense of scientific proof. Those things are few and far between in the social sciences, but they do exist and this one of them.

 

[K1984]

Agree to disagree. The main thing that has changed is the NHL resale site which to my knowledge is a more recent resale avenue. I love the stats on that site as you get the total tickets offered, how many in each pricepoint, etc. A great resource for a cynic like me that loves to take a look.

also for years STH have been giving tickets away and not going. Its not a new thing. You've just noted it more in recent years.

Finally, it is possible that the NHL resale site is doing devalue to resale prices by allowing yet another ticket resale option and which people may be more comfortable using than other agents. so maybe that has served to increase resale amount of tickets offered and lower resale price. Just speculation on that.

It really isn't an agree to disagree point. It is a fact that tickets for the last two years were at an all time re-sale low due to an all-time dissatisfaction with how the team was playing. You're using this to argue that it has been this way for the last 8 years which is not even close to the truth. I've had a pulse on this market for the last 10 years, you've admitted to only beginning to look at the secondary market last season.

 

[Gord]

There are a lot of viewing options available to those who wish to look for them. I'll leave it at that.

hmm. options that are banned from being posted here because of dubious legality.

there's something to teach the kids.

 

[McDraekke]

If you're calling me out on this I'll call out that you are completely ignoring that 1000% inflation for pretty much any product or service is highly abnormal.

Certainly you know theres a difference between increase and wantom increase in sticker price. with really no word to reflect current Oiler ticket prices. Gouging just doesn't cut it.

in terms of NHL ticket prices Edmonton ticket prices have had the most inflation in 25 yrs. Original 6 clubs had higher prices to begin with. A ticket in NY or Toronto or Montreal you expected to pay more than in a smaller market like Edmonton. Edmonton NHL tickets have inflated like no other. I've been researching this trend for decades ftr.

But I think what you're ignoring here is that inflation of prices of these types of items is solely based upon what people are willing to pay for them. Regardless of how high they are going, people only have themselves to blame, not the businesses. It's not the NHL or Oilers being greedy (or at least, more than is normal for corporations) - it's that people are willing to pay more, so of-****ing-course the businesses will sell for more. **Edit** In cases of businesses with shareholders, it's actually against the regulations of the company to not get as much revenue as possible... CEOs will get their ***** canned if they don't do that.

In terms of supply and demand inflation, no increase is unreasonable or outrageous if the public is consistently paying for it.

@Beerfish - The CFL is the same thing: they charge what they can get away with. If the prices of their tickets were anywhere near NHL, people wouldn't buy them, but that's not on anyone but public interest. Some people wouldn't pay the price of a Esks ticket to watch an Oiler game, but that's their prerogative. And you're probably right - I shouldn't disregard them in this argument... it's just that Replacement decided to bring their price compared to NHL hockey into it, and that's ridiculous

 

[Replacement*]

Great post! you say a lot with a few words.

So just to back up a bit, why am I so admit that markets function well? The reason is if I said that gravity didn't exist I would be laughed at. Yet, saying markets are completely irrational is like saying gravity doesn't exist. it is quite literally been proven wrong. Thus it hurts me to hear that, i come across like some free market idea log with an ax to grind, yet I am not. I am stating gravity exists. Thats it.

heh nobody was questioning that market forces exist. My response was to your statement that "Markets work well" Theres a huge difference between these two positions. Especially as seen in the context of this noted millennium.

Also, nobody said markets are irrational. You stated people are rational. Even though they often are not. In anycase rationality is determined in time and place and with the notion of what is, and isn't rational blowing and changing like the wind. Which is far beyond our discussion here. But suffice to say most of our actions will be viewed as irrational when viewed through the scope of posthoc historical analysis.

 

[McGoMcD]

heh nobody was questioning that market forces exist. My response was to your statement that "Markets work well" Theres a huge difference between these two positions. Especially as seen in the context of this noted millennium.

Also, nobody said markets are irrational. You stated people are rational. Even though they often are not. In anycase rationality is determined in time and place and with the notion of what is, and isn't rational blowing and changing like the wind. Which is far beyond our discussion here. But suffice to say most of our actions will be viewed as irrational when viewed through the scope of posthoc analysis.

Fair enough. You posted about Tulipmania, and stated that things like the great depression and the financial crisis are all evidence of how poor markets work (none of which is accepted as any sort of fact). You are exaclty right, posthoc analysis can make anything seem irrational, even though it wans't at the time, my point.

Any way, you never seem to want to admit yoru wrong. you just state you didn't mean what you probably did mean. however that is fine, your a human being, and thus allowed to have flaws

Any case. There is nothing wrong with increasing the oilers tickets to 10%. long debate, but that point remains.

 

[Replacement*]

But I think what you're ignoring here is that inflation of prices of these types of items is solely based upon what people are willing to pay for them. Regardless of how high they are going, people only have themselves to blame, not the businesses. It's not the NHL or Oilers being greedy (or at least, more than is normal for corporations) - it's that people are willing to pay more, so of-****ing-course the businesses will sell for more.

I haven't disagreed with this once. In fact I've argued it.

In terms of supply and demand inflation, no increase is unreasonable or outrageous if the public is consistently paying for it.

No, this is different. Just because you can gouge people doesn't mean that you should. Especially in the context of an org that just had their hands out for a public funding of a new arena. The optics are bad. Depending on ones view I guess.

 

[doulos]

hmm. options that are banned from being posted here because of dubious legality.

there's something to teach the kids.

At this point I have no doubt that the 'kids' could probably teach me a lot more! Either way NHL Game Center is a totally legitimate option that is much cheaper than repeatedly paying for PPV games.

 

[shoop]

However, once you get a good qualification in place, I think we have, you can state certain laws. It has been proven, look up the effecient market hypothesis that indeed it is impossible to claim that markets are fully irrational. It is statistically proven that most variation in market prices can't be explained by known things. Thus at the point of the price change the market took in all available information. Thus, the market priced the good well.

You can state certian things with a sense of scientific proof. Those things are few and far between in the social sciences, but they do exist and this one of them.

No need for me to look up the efficient market hypothesis. There is, however, a reason it is called a hypothesis and is not known as a law. The basic foundation of many economic theories, including the EMH, is that people are rational decision makers. They are not. Emotions and other mistakes in decisions are very common. The EMH is also based on an assumption of equal access to information by all participants in the market, which is also not the case.

p.s. The sentence I highlighted with italics doesn't fit logically with the rest of your post. I'm guessing you meant can instead of can't.

 

[McDraekke]

I haven't disagreed with this once. In fact I've argued it.

No, this is different. Just because you can gouge people doesn't mean that you should. Especially in the context of an org that just had their hands out for a public funding of a new arena. The optics are bad. Depending on ones view I guess.

Maybe you just need to stop saying "gouge" and "gouging." A word with very negative connotation. And in regards to your point, my most recent post has been edited to add that many businesses will get rid of their management if they are not getting the highest revenue and profit possible.

 

[Replacement*]

While I completely agree with your sentiments economics can't be proven like things in the physical sciences.

It is just ridiculous to expect government intervention in hockey ticket prices. It's a private good and the price will be whatever the market will bear.

Odd comment in the context of oft public funded venture.

Adam Smiths hand wasn't referring to handouts...

You can quote me on that.

 

[shoop]

No, this is different. Just because you can gouge people doesn't mean that you should. Especially in the context of an org that just had their hands out for a public funding of a new arena. The optics are bad. Depending on ones view I guess.

The public funding is such a minor part of the overall cost of the rink that part of your argument makes no sense.

Odd comment in the context of oft public funded venture.

Adam Smiths hand wasn't referring to handouts...

You can quote me on that.

Less than 5% of the rink cost? The Oilers would have walked away from the deal if a condition of that funding was government control of the ticket prices.