10% Increase in Season Ticket Prices

[zaidc]

Still 2008th in line in the registry. I don't think I've moved a spot since January.

 

[McGoMcD]

Just to sort out a few of the things people have said in this thread:

1) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were NOT backed by the government; both were private corporations instituted by US congress. In the end, the U.S. government had to step in to prevent them from going bust and throwing the US mortgage market into even greater turmoil.

2) A funny thing about the Efficient Market Hypothesis: When Eugene Fama (one of the co-authors of the theory) opened his lecture on the subject, the first words out of his mouth were "Everything I'm about to say isn't true." Yet for some reason that was not covered in my university finance courses.

Unlike the physical sciences, where statistical modeling is far more predictive, there is some evidence that the 'fat ends' of the bell curve (which most quantitative trading methods have used as a basis) should have extra weighting due to the effects that investor panic/exuberance can have on the systematic risk of the market.

While government intervention can affect the efficiency of the market, so can corporate fraud, price fixing, stock manipulation, ....

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.

Unless Katz is using the price increases to pay the city back for money that's gone into the construction of his own personal play toy/speculative real estate play, city council was duped and Darryl just lined his pockets at the expense of the Edmonton taxpayer.

Fredie and Fannie were not officially gov organization, but they were not really private either. I forget which one, fannie I think, was started during the great depression as a government bank or finacial arm to help people afford housing. They were privatized at face value in the 80's I think. So most of their lives were as official government agencies. The thing is the gov still had poeple sit of the board. Every one in investment knows they are backed by the government. you can prove it by the fact that the interest rates on their bonds were so low. Why would freddie and fanny, private banks who take risky loans have such low interest rates....? The answer is they were backed by the government and every knew it. Even if it wasn't explicit. So, no you can't say what would have happened had the gov not been intervening in the mortgage market.

As for Fama, no idea. He is a cleaver speaker and does believe markets are efficient. The point is the EMH is true based on your reference. If you think markets have bubbles every where and prices just go up and down because people are irrational. Then the EMH is without doubt proof that this view is wrong. If you think their are some irrational aspects of markets, and things like fraud etc do happen. Then no, the EMH is not true. It depends, as I have stated many times, on your frame of reference. If you think markets are extremly irrational, inline with tulipmania, then the EMH proves that is untrue pretty much like we know gravity is true. Ps, if you really care there are differnt forms of the EMH, the weak, to strong forms. The weaker forms are true. the weaker forms rule out serious irrational aspects. there is no way a rational person can step into the market and make easy money. It simply isn't true.

For the rest, I agree.

For the oilers, the thing is poeple are totally forgetting the city looked all messed up in the negations too. They never, at any point, looked like they really cared about the tax payer either. They clearly have interest with Northlands etc. The city looked just as corrupt as Katz, at least Katz's motives are clear. He wants to make money, the cities motives seemed anything but clear.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

Remember the days when Edmonton was just two mud huts along the riverbank?

Things change, cities grow. It's called progress in other parts of the world. One way or another, you either progress or digress, or you sit stagnant. Edmonton should be proud of all the development going on right now. I read somewhere that Edmonton is the second fastest growing city in North America right now.

If it's not Katz building an arena then it's an Arts Gallery, or Winspear, or a twisted bridge. I remember back when there was lots of opposition to a new mall being built in the west end and that turned out ok. I would suggest that rent in West Ed increased year by year which would have been passed on to the consumer much like Oiler ticket prices. But everyone had a choice to shop at another mall.

West Edmonton Mall is one of the reasons that downtown Edmonton is in the sorry state it is.

 

[Trader]

Still 2008th in line in the registry. I don't think I've moved a spot since January.

Have heard that there are currently over 3,000 people on the season seat registry!!

 

[Oildrum]

Still 2008th in line in the registry. I don't think I've moved a spot since January.

They only update your number twice a year. After renewal deadline has passed we will get an update again (usually late June).

 

[Replacement*]

Wow ok, so if the city's funding for projects is so finite and if not used on the arena it would be used on other projects of equal or greater value, provide for me these sources that show that the city had a choice between projects and chose the "lesser" in the arena to the detriment of city itself because if not then your pie in the sky argument holds zero weight.

OK, I'll play. Construction costs still have to be paid in increments as the Arena project goes on. This money is fronted by the city through finite access to low interest loan it has. Part of this is going to be repaid by Katz, part theoretically by the CRL. That's all fine and good but this is a .5B buck project which represents a significant investment by the city in initial outlay and with CRL benefit not incurring until a later point. So this is, despite what your city is trying to tell you, an impediment to starting other projects because the city has to tow the line on expenses in any given fiscal year.

But heres where the Arena investment makes less sense. Other investments, cough, proposed LRT lines, are tied to provincial/federal funding support. meaning that the cities outlay on those projects is dollars well spend because a good share of those projects will be borne by federal, provincial funding. Such things as LRT funding are also more the typical domain of what a city is supposed to be funding in terms of infrastructure.

Next, everybody benefits from increased and viable improvements in transportation. Drivers benefit through less traffic as more people take LRT than busses, More people make the public transit switch which limits needs to continually increase roadway/arterial infrastructure. ETS passengers benefit, students benefit, seniors benefit, property taxes near stations go up in TOD's and everybody is impacted positively by this. Make no mistake the City could have started the LRT lines to Millwoods and Lewis Estates instead of first going ahead with the Arena funding. So its a source of frustration that a line promised to Millwoods as early as 1979 is still on the cue list. Perhaps ironically that was so long ago that Rexall was still a new arena at the time..

So I'll always be a little salty about this. Especially as I was told by the past City Council, and my Alderman that the LRT was the Number 1 priority. In fact Sohi vowed several times that he was ardently opposed to public funding of an arena and would vote against it.

 

[smackdaddy]

OK, I'll play. Construction costs still have to be paid in increments as the Arena project goes on. This money is fronted by the city through finite access to low interest loan it has. Part of this is going to be repaid by Katz, part theoretically by the CRL. That's all fine and good but this is a .5B buck project which represents a significant investment by the city in initial outlay and with CRL benefit not incurring until a later point. So this is, despite what your city is trying to tell you, an impediment to starting other projects because the city has to tow the line on expenses in any given fiscal year.

But heres where the Arena investment makes less sense. Other investments, cough, proposed LRT lines, are tied to provincial/federal funding support. meaning that the cities outlay on those projects is dollars well spend because a good share of those projects will be borne by federal, provincial funding. Such things as LRT funding are also more the typical domain of what a city is supposed to be funding in terms of infrastructure.

Next, everybody benefits from increased and viable improvements in transportation. Drivers benefit through less traffic as more people take LRT than busses, More people make the public transit switch which limits needs to continually increase roadway/arterial infrastructure. ETS passengers benefit, students benefit, seniors benefit, property taxes near stations go up in TOD's and everybody is impacted positively by this. Make no mistake the City could have started the LRT lines to Millwoods and Lewis Estates instead of first going ahead with the Arena funding. So its a source of frustration that a line promised to Millwoods as early as 1979 is still on the cue list. Perhaps ironically that was so long ago that Rexall was still a new arena at the time..

So I'll always be a little salty about this. Especially as I was told by the past City Council, and my Alderman that the LRT was the Number 1 priority. In fact Sohi vowed several times that he was ardently opposed to public funding of an arena and would vote against it.

I was under the assumption that the LRT expansion was well under way and to be implemented in phases. Not to mention the expansion to Kingsway goes past the arena of which is the partial cost/investment from the city. Correct me if I'm wrong there. Granted there have been promises since a long freakin time ago regarding the LRT, I highly doubt the delays have had anything to do with arena district and more to do with the unwilling participation of the province and by local political powers that don't want to be 'that party' which spends the money, even during the oil rich times. I think your frustration is misplaced in that regard. No one disputes the benefit of better public transportation. Tying the LRT into the arena district and using it to cause a divide sounds like typical pandering by typical politicians.

That still doesn't mean that without the arena project the LRT would magically be built instead. I think it would have been disingenuous to propose one or the other either, which is probably why it never was proposed that way. Still doesn't answer the question of which projects were abandoned because of the arena.

 

[Replacement*]

I was under the assumption that the LRT expansion was well under way and to be implemented in phases. Not to mention the expansion to Kingsway goes past the arena of which is the partial cost/investment from the city. Correct me if I'm wrong there. Granted there have been promises since a long freakin time ago regarding the LRT, I highly doubt the delays have had anything to do with arena district and more to do with the unwilling participation of the province and by local political powers that don't want to be 'that party' which spends the money, even during the oil rich times. I think your frustration is misplaced in that regard. No one disputes the benefit of better public transportation. Tying the LRT into the arena district and using it to cause a divide sounds like typical pandering by typical politicians.

That still doesn't mean that without the arena project the LRT would magically be built instead. I think it would have been disingenuous to propose one or the other either, which is probably why it never was proposed that way. Still doesn't answer the question of which projects were abandoned because of the arena.

Trust me I've followed both developments for seemingly forever. The Arena got the headstart nod and the LRT, with funding largely in place for the Valley line is on an ongoing basis just 2 yrs away. Ask yourself why construction in Earnest isn't starting until 2017. Really this could be green lighted immediately except the city, with a new council wanted to hold the line on current expenditures a significant one of which is the new Arena.

Want another one? The City has been talking about a contiguous re-enstatement of the Millwoods Ravine that would connect Millwoods portion of Millcreek ravine with the area of the ravine north of Argyll. This project, which has been on backburner for decades and which constantly gets bumped for feasibility study and because other projects are more pressing is likely NEVER going to happen. Or anytime in my lifetime.
Similarly the Edmonton ribbon of green parkways initiative started in the 70's.

Imagine the commute, health, recreation, user benefits of a contiguous parkway trail stretching from Millwoods all the way to the downtown. I would even use it as a safe cycle commute. As it is its the most used system of bike paths in Edmonton. But nothing is done for it. little has been spent on it. Even the wooden trestle bridges there are remnants of old coal mines. A wonderful area, and what should be a priority in what was a bad mistake by the city paving over some sections of that enjoyable ravine.
Really as soon as the city marketed Millwoods and developed there this mistake should have been corrected and Millcreek brought back to contiguous life in its fuller extent.

Anyway thanks for reading.

 

[Trader]

Just got my renewal Package

My seats went from $4910 (109.11 per game) last year to $5248 (116.62 per game) about 6.5%

I don't know 2014 pieces for other areas but here are 2015 prices. Someone can fill in the 2014 that would be appreciated.

Colonnade 2432
Terrace 3576
Exec terrace 5143
Executive 5248 last year 4910
Silver 7709
Gold 8730

I also pay full amount in advance and receive a 2% discount plus $100 in oiler bucks per seat.

Was able to see the renewal package and compared the prices to last year and here are the % increases
Gold Club 6.0%
Silver Club 7.0%
Executive 7.0%
Executive Terrace 8.0%
Terrace 7.0%
Colonnade 8.0%
Gallery 8.0%
Standing Room 8.0%
So those are the increases in an old building and after the worst season ever.
Next Year??? I would suggest season ticket holders tighten up their chin straps!!

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's not economics.

They're being nice. Or maybe they don't believe the hype.

Don't... don't don't.....

 

[KCC]

I read an article/saw a picture on Puck Daddy that the season ticket renewal package is a golden envelope like the one EDM won for drafting the first overall pick. Or at least looks like the card anyways. That's a little strange, but pretty fun at the same time.

 

[T-Funk]

I read an article/saw a picture on Puck Daddy that the season ticket renewal package is a golden envelope like the one EDM won for drafting the first overall pick. Or at least looks like the card anyways. That's a little strange, but pretty fun at the same time.

 

[Empros*]

Still 2008th in line in the registry. I don't think I've moved a spot since January.

What does it average per year? When do you think you'll finally have a shot?

Man it would suck if you finally get your seat and you're stuck by some idiot or obese person.

 

[Domino1]

It isn't an envelope its a booklet

 

[Del Preston]

Gorgeous.

 

[mactforcoach]

Was able to see the renewal package and compared the prices to last year and here are the % increases
Gold Club 6.0%
Silver Club 7.0%
Executive 7.0%
Executive Terrace 8.0%
Terrace 7.0%
Colonnade 8.0%
Gallery 8.0%
Standing Room 8.0%
So those are the increases in an old building and after the worst season ever.
Next Year??? I would suggest season ticket holders tighten up their chin straps!!

Still waiting for our package in the mail but if these # are correct then our tickets will increase from $195.00/game to $206.00. I can live with an extra $11/seat to watch McLellan coach McDavid. We might actually start winning some games this year if the new management is as good as we all hope.

 

[Alberta]

Still 2008th in line in the registry. I don't think I've moved a spot since January.

I would think you'll get in there by the time Rogers Place opens. I would think they'll increase the number of season ticket holders due to a larger building.

 

[TheGuyInTheChair]

They should make an all gold alternate jersey.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I have a feeling they are doing a slight increase this year, and another in the new arena so it's gradual and not a big amount all at once.

 

[shoop]

Trust me I've followed both developments for seemingly forever. The Arena got the headstart nod and the LRT, with funding largely in place for the Valley line is on an ongoing basis just 2 yrs away. Ask yourself why construction in Earnest isn't starting until 2017. Really this could be green lighted immediately except the city, with a new council wanted to hold the line on current expenditures a significant one of which is the new Arena.

Anyway thanks for reading.

Do define 'constrcution in earnest'? The only quid pro quo on that one is in your mind. No guarantees the LRT line construction would have gotten bumped up with the a new rink not being built. The major problems with the LRT system dates back to the 70s with whoever the urban planners were at the time who envisioned massive growth in the northeast.

Your post still ignores your mis-stated and unsubstantiated point that the rink is 'taxpayer funded' ergo that should somehow impact ticket prices.

 

[Replacement*]

Do define 'constrcution in earnest'? The only quid pro quo on that one is in your mind. No guarantees the LRT line construction would have gotten bumped up with the a new rink not being built. The major problems with the LRT system dates back to the 70s with whoever the urban planners were at the time who envisioned massive growth in the northeast.

Your post still ignores your mis-stated and unsubstantiated point that the rink is 'taxpayer funded' ergo that should somehow impact ticket prices.

You missed my subsequent posts on this. Again the current incremented arena construction costs are currently being carried by the city. They are fronting this expenditure through their access to finite low interest loan. Not a bad thing in itself but in the context of a new administration and City Hall trying to maintain budget and that deliberated on certain expenditures in fiscal year and then cutback to limit the bad optics of a considerable property tax increase for this fiscal year.

Through attending council, reading council recommendations, and watching online I've been privy to some of the ongoing deliberations through the decades. There is of course a finite amount of expenditure and projects a City can undergo concurrently and remain within fiscal budget.

Again, if you hadn't seen my replies earlier CRL amounts are Subsequent benefit. Construction costs are due PRIOR to CRL benefits ensuing. For a period of roughly at least 2 yrs this means that expenditure comes before the CRL is "paying for all this"

Finite access to low interest loans could of course theoretically be used on other projects instead of the Arena. Part of the delay in every LRT line the City has proposed in the last couple decades including Century Park line have been delayed while the city sought out ways to fund.

Finally, Valley LRT line is a P3 project with approved significant funding from other levels of govt. In any such project the cities investment in that nature of cofounded project is of course going to realize increased benefit vs City dollar cost. Conversely the Arena has no such Govt funding attached. Not even the 30M speculated on the community Arena. Again the City is left digging for that amount.

ps I agree with your first point. But then I was critical of that first line when it was devised. It was really the smallest suburb the city could put the line. It was of course the choice due to location of new Stadium and arena. Really there was little reason to go beyond stadium in that one.

 

[T-Funk]

The season ticket renewal package contains very little comment about the game of hockey. On top of the gold book that more or less states everything is incredible in Oilerland with the hiring of Chiarelli and the draft lotto win, there is another book that took a hell of a lot more time to create that focuses on community involvement of the team and management.

So basically who cares about the on-ice product when millionaires with 6 months off per year do some charity work.

 

[Fourier]

Just got my renewal Package

My seats went from $4910 (109.11 per game) last year to $5248 (116.62 per game) about 6.5%

I don't know 2014 pieces for other areas but here are 2015 prices. Someone can fill in the 2014 that would be appreciated.

Colonnade 2432
Terrace 3576
Exec terrace 5143
Executive 5248 last year 4910
Silver 7709
Gold 8730

I also pay full amount in advance and receive a 2% discount plus $100 in oiler bucks per seat.

Reading this thread reminded me that I paid between $8 -14 per game to watch the Oilers through the dynasty years for seats that would be in the Executive Terrace. Using the BoC's inflation calculator that would put the tickets at between $25-28 today. Given the team, I'd say that was a bargain.

 

[oobga]

Probably coulda jacked up the prices 20% and still sold every ticket. Could argue they are being generous with ONLY a 10% increase