Post-Game Talk: #10 | Flyers at Leafs | November 2, 2022 | 7:00 PM | Loss 5-2

[Adtar02]

lol. how long till frost sent down.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What coach do you think would have this team winning or even in the analytics battle right now?

I think numerous coaches could have them doing better. Winning? Nah. Fletcher's incompetence has always made that a stretch even when healthy.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I have no clue what you’re talking about.

Torts is as honest a coach as you’re going to get.

He said from the outset this was going to be a long process & not a quick fix.

He’s the opposite of a used car salesman. He’s the kind of guy who would tell you the car is a piece of shit.

We can disagree, that’s fine with me.

Just the whole mantra about youth playing, that accountability will be upheld. It’s kind of become clear pretty quick he has his pets - the problem is that they make mistakes as well but continue to be trotted out there. While others see different treatment.

I don’t buy the propaganda that was constantly pumped out all summer, as he was their marketing tool.

He’s a poor developmental coach imo. He talks a good game, but I cracks are starting to appear in that message. Tough love is clearly his main coaching strategy, and constantly harping on the team about effort is likely going to get stale quick. As an army drill sergeant sure, but I simply think his time is over.

 

[Beef Invictus]

lol. how long till frost sent down.

You mean how long until someone claims him for free?

 

[flyersnorth]

You’re probably gonna need a complete house cleaning beyond Fletcher to potentially see Ristolainen shipped out of here. They’re detached from reality when it comes to him. They’ve tripled down to this point in spite of all evidence suggesting they should have never even acquired him in the first place. If the current brain trust in this organization even beyond Fletcher ever comes to realization that Ristolainen is lemon. You can probably guarantee the rest of the league caught on as well as they’re generally the last to leave the barn in this league on trends.

I think you could replace Risto's name with Deslauriers, MacEwen, Hodgson, Seeler, and see that the thought process extends all across the roster.

Giving a guy like Deslauriers a 4 year contract with an NTC is completely detached from reality. He offers so little.

 

[wasup]

I have no clue what you’re talking about.

Torts is as honest a coach as you’re going to get.

He said from the outset this was going to be a long process & not a quick fix.

He’s the opposite of a used car salesman. He’s the kind of guy who would tell you the car is a piece of shit.

We can disagree, that’s fine with me.

Just the whole mantra about youth playing, that accountability will be upheld. It’s kind of become clear pretty quick he has his pets - the problem is that they make mistakes as well but continue to be trotted out there. While others see different treatment.

I don’t buy the propaganda that was constantly pumped out all summer, as he was their marketing tool.

He’s a poor developmental coach imo. He talks a good game, but I cracks are starting to appear in that message.

He talk's about young guys feeling comfortable enough to start making plays but he puts the fear of god in them that if they make a mistake they are gone to Siberia .

 

[FlyerNutter]

I think you could replace Risto's name with Deslauriers, MacEwen, Hodgson, Seeler, and see that the thought process extends all across the roster.

Giving a guy like Deslauriers a 4 year contract with an NTC is completely detached from reality. He offers so little.

Believe it was ASF that mentioned Torts strongly advocated for ND after hearing about him.

It goes far beyond just one or two men.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I have a feeling that this thing is going to get really ugly in the media before long

 

[deadhead]

They should rebuild.
But they'll suck for years.
So what, they'll be able to draft elite players.

They're rebuilding, they suck. You got what you want, so why are you whining?

Game was better than I expected, it was a back to back with a flight to Toronto, against a team that was rested and at home.
Even if the teams were evenly matched, Toronto would have had a huge edge.

There isn't much any HC can do with this team right now, they just don't have the horses.
This is what happens when the FO insists on competing with a team that's past its window, acerbated by some really bad injury luck.

But that's GOOD, because the FO is finally forced to face reality - that they have to commit to a real rebuild, that one or two FAs are not going to make a difference. They haven't done so since 1990.

However, be prepared for five years of pain, the only elite player drafted by Hextall is potentially Hart, they have a handful of good players and some promising role players. But Hextall's half-hearted rebuild was a failure, Holmgren's decision in 2018 to try to win with that group instead of a reset has lead us here. Fletcher hasn't helped matters, but waiting until 2021 basically meant there were few tradeable assets.

There's no miracle GM, Sakic made a couple good trades, but he had Landeskog and McKinnon, ROR, Duchene as trade bait and Maker fell into his lap - no one on this team with that kind of talent. And it took 7 years.

 

[FlyerNutter]

will always laugh at these comments that they are rebuilding.

Such bullshit.

 

[macleish1974]

Everyone who has spent years telling me how I'm wrong about enforcers being irrelevant in modern hockey needs to watch this game and pay close attention to how they were nothing but net-negatives who didn't even have an opportunity to magically swing momentum because TML could just ignore them if they wanted to. Notice as well how even with our vaunted "toughness" the supposedly soft and flimsy Leafs weren't intimidated for a single second and stomped on them the whole damned game.

There's also a clear pattern to Torts' offense. It's get pucks deep, safely grind the boards. It's basically a form of playing defense at the opposite end; the only improvement over AV is that there's coherence between F and D and actual forecheckers, not that any of them are going to be doing anything to generate goals. And any of the stuff that can set up real chances is strictly frowned upon. Allison and Frost both have been punished for "plays at the blue line" where they dared to try and make something real happen instead of banging the puck around the boards. Gee, if only someone (like me) could have mentioned this sort of thing being Tortorella Hockey during the offseason and not the high-pressure excellent offensive genius we were repeatedly told to expect. When Tortorella said he was going to at least get out of guys' way and let them play modern offense, he was either overstating his ability to not freak out over it or was flat-out lying.

I still hold out hope that defense will become at least coherent, but it won't really matter; you cannot play this kind of feeble-by-design offense without inevitably coughing up rushes to the other team. They'll still get scored on, they still won't score.

This roster management is as dead-brained and archaic in its false safety as ever. It's anti-developmental (for all levels, no rookie will build skills and veterans will atrophy), combined with a too-powerful GM who is vigorously injecting all of the league's worst-illustrated paper tigers into the roster every chance he can get. A dinosaur coach who idolizes a version of hockey that only exists in old men's imaginations, combined with the same thing in a GM, creating a fossilized feedback loop.

fossilized feedback loop:

 

[GKJ]

 

[deadhead]

We can disagree, that’s fine with me.

Just the whole mantra about youth playing, that accountability will be upheld. It’s kind of become clear pretty quick he has his pets - the problem is that they make mistakes as well but continue to be trotted out there. While others see different treatment.

I don’t buy the propaganda that was constantly pumped out all summer, as he was their marketing tool.

He’s a poor developmental coach imo. He talks a good game, but I cracks are starting to appear in that message. Tough love is clearly his main coaching strategy, and constantly harping on the team about effort is likely going to get stale quick. As an army drill sergeant sure, but I simply think his time is over.

This team needed tough love, it's obvious that they had bad fundamentals, that they glided through shifts.
You can't teach talent, you can teach fundamentals, good practice habits, expect consistent effort.
But it takes time, you can't change players' approach to the game in a few weeks.

This season is about teaching and evaluation, it's going to suck, they just don't have enough talent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tortorella has a golden opportunity to prove any aspect of the accountability myth perpetuated by his cult of personality is true.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This team needed tough love, it's obvious that they had bad fundamentals, that they glided through shifts.
You can't teach talent, you can teach fundamentals, good practice habits, expect consistent effort.
But it takes time, you can't change players' approach to the game in a few weeks.

This season is about teaching and evaluation, it's going to suck, they just don't have enough talent.

What fundamentals are they learning?


This post is a strong accidental condemnation of Fletcher.

 

[Rebels57]

Bill ain't happy.

HockeyBuzz.com - Forums - Bill Meltzer: Flyers Fall to Leafs; Keith Allen to PSHOF

www.hockeybuzz.com

Torts is a genuinely bad person. Not sure why all people cant see this.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

This team needed tough love, it's obvious that they had bad fundamentals, that they glided through shifts.
You can't teach talent, you can teach fundamentals, good practice habits, expect consistent effort.
But it takes time, you can't change players' approach to the game in a few weeks.

This season is about teaching and evaluation, it's going to suck, they just don't have enough talent.

So he'll teach all this great stuff supposedly to a talentless roster 75% of which will be gone in 2 years. What's the point?

Sounds like something you might try and do with underachievers not this slop

 

[Adtar02]

just realize frost was bench with his dad in the building. lol. torts is a piece of shit. and terrible coach..

 

[Beef Invictus]

So he'll teach all this great stuff supposedly to a talentless roster 75% of which will be gone in 2 years. What's the point?

Sounds like something you might try and do with underachievers not this slop

Sure seems like an indictment of the team's ability to develop skill if they need a coach to so desperately teach skill. Which is weird because I've been assured they are good at development.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Bill ain't happy.

HockeyBuzz.com - Forums - Bill Meltzer: Flyers Fall to Leafs; Keith Allen to PSHOF

www.hockeybuzz.com

I didn’t realize he was going this far already. That’s really making for a rich culture.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Torts: Invests a huge amount of time & resources into animal rescue. Keeps in touch with former players. Been said many times that he’s a great guy off the ice.

But he’s “a genuinely bad person” because he is hard on his players as a coach & dares to criticize fans’ idols.

 

[freakydallas13]

What fundamentals are they learning?


This post is a strong accidental condemnation of Fletcher.

The fundamental fact that this team will play you if you try hard but are terrible, it's the most important thing to this organization.

 

[jabba2]

I have a feeling that this thing is going to get really ugly in the media before long

I dont know. They are missing their #1C, #1D and two top line Wingers. Possibly all of them except JVR for the entire season. Everything was ugly before the season even got going.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Much better to be terrible & not play hard.

 

[Curufinwe]

Is the 1D Ellis, because they've known all summer he was done and they spent his cap space on Risto and DeAngelo. No one forced them to make those decisions.

Losing Couturier was a massive blow, but I don't think that explains why tough guy Torts has already tried to make examples out of York and Frost; two prospects the Flyers sorely need to develop and prosper. As we saw last night, the team is fully capable of being a total embarrassment without them on the ice.