GDT: 1/6/24 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Boston

[LightningStrikes]

This must be some sort of karma for how much I've shit talked the Oilers over the years. Now we are the Oilers.

It looks like we have Mike Smith in net so you might be right!

 

[Soul Assumption]

Is a new coach gonna make guys like Raddysh or Sheary play better or something?

Why not? Names was terrible in Tampa, now in Winnipeg 35gp 22p, +18. Why can’t the same thing happen with Sheary?

 

[Stammertime91]

Why not? Names was terrible in Tampa, now in Winnipeg 35gp 22p, +18. Why can’t the same thing happen with Sheary?

Great idea. Vinik should fire Cooper so that Conor Sheary can start producing.

 

[Soul Assumption]

Great idea. Vinik should fire Cooper so that Conor Sheary can start producing.

But it's not just about Sheary. Every player except Kucherov is terrible. Even Point and Hagel can play better.

 

[JoVel]

Namestnikov was also not terrible just in Tampa. He was terrible in like 5 teams before now being on a hot streak in Winnipeg. Not the example I'd use.

 

[Stammertime91]

But it's not just about Sheary. Every player except Kucherov is terrible. Even Point and Hagel can play better.

There are three first line players on this team. Kucherov, Hagel, and Point, that's it. Sure those two can be better, but we've seen both do worse in "better" years.

Cirelli, Paul, and Stamkos play like third liners. Two of them are. Good ones, but third liners. Farmer Fran (Jeannot), Eyssimont, Glendening, and Motte are NHL bottom six material. Even then, Eyssimont is the most dynamic and the others are dime a dozen. Sheary has played like an AHL call up 90% of his time. That leaves ABB, Watson, and if you count forwards that have appeared like Merela and Chaffee, what are they? They are AHL material. Watson is the best of those four and if that's our 13th forward, damn.

Over half the forward group are bottom six guys. Stamkos and Paul have passing grades because of their powerplay production. If neither were on the powerplay, they would be getting ripped nightly by this board. The saving grace for Paul is that he's legitimately a third liner and paid like it. He's playing over his head and that probably hurts more than helps because he's not top six. We have zero second liners. The depth has a huge divide. Chemistry doesn't bridge the gap either because nobody has an ounce of creativity to feed 91. Cirelli doesn't gel with anybody to create offense because he doesn't drive it. That's a 6M center set as our 2C. That's a huge problem. People can't justify "defense" and "he's good in the playoffs" if we don't even make it. Even then, he's paid that contract with potential to improve and offensively, he's not doing it.

Plain and simple, the personnel is doodoo. You've got a lot of tweeners and guys that would maybe even be the 13th forward on other teams playing 15mins a night and being asked to be the "solution" in the top six because we have no other options and right at the cap.

The biggest flaw from a coaching stand point is whoever the dumbass is that thought this defensive system was a good idea and the possible dumbasses, plural, that think it's going to pan out. We have the most hodge podge defensive unit right now and this seasons experiment has likely cost us a few games outright.

 

[FinnLightning26]

Only highly paid player who's playing well is Kuch. You can't win games when the guys who are supposed to win you games are playing like shit most nights. We go in to the third period and give up one shot in the first ten minutes. Of course, that one shot goes in. Vasy isn't even 30 and he's already on a steady decline. Hedman has forgot how to play defense, Cirelli kills all the offense from the line he plays in, Stamkos in a PP weapon at this point.

I don't really care who you trade from this team as long as he's not named Kucherov. Everyone else can go to the highest bidder.

 

[Soul Assumption]

There are three first line players on this team. Kucherov, Hagel, and Point, that's it. Sure those two can be better, but we've seen both do worse in "better" years.

Cirelli, Paul, and Stamkos play like third liners. Two of them are. Good ones, but third liners. Farmer Fran (Jeannot), Eyssimont, Glendening, and Motte are NHL bottom six material. Even then, Eyssimont is the most dynamic and the others are dime a dozen. Sheary has played like an AHL call up 90% of his time. That leaves ABB, Watson, and if you count forwards that have appeared like Merela and Chaffee, what are they? They are AHL material. Watson is the best of those four and if that's our 13th forward, damn.

Over half the forward group are bottom six guys. Stamkos and Paul have passing grades because of their powerplay production. If neither were on the powerplay, they would be getting ripped nightly by this board. The saving grace for Paul is that he's legitimately a third liner and paid like it. He's playing over his head and that probably hurts more than helps because he's not top six. We have zero second liners. The depth has a huge divide. Chemistry doesn't bridge the gap either because nobody has an ounce of creativity to feed 91. Cirelli doesn't gel with anybody to create offense because he doesn't drive it. That's a 6M center set as our 2C. That's a huge problem. People can't justify "defense" and "he's good in the playoffs" if we don't even make it. Even then, he's paid that contract with potential to improve and offensively, he's not doing it.

Plain and simple, the personnel is doodoo. You've got a lot of tweeners and guys that would maybe even be the 13th forward on other teams playing 15mins a night and being asked to be the "solution" in the top six because we have no other options and right at the cap.

The biggest flaw from a coaching stand point is whoever the dumbass is that thought this defensive system was a good idea and the possible dumbasses, plural, that think it's going to pan out. We have the most hodge podge defensive unit right now and this seasons experiment has likely cost us a few games outright.

So if Tampa misses the playoffs, but the Flyers, Caps or Islanders don't, then it's about the roster? Do these teams have a better roster in your opinion? I'm 100% sure that bottom players can play better. for example, when Jeannot scored 24 goals, half of them were tips. Why doesn't Cooper use him in front of net?
Bottom is bad, Cirelli is bad, Stamkos is bad, Conn Smythe winners are bad. Not a single player on the team performs above expectations. if all this happens at the same time, then you should ask questions to the coach.

 

[Stammertime91]

So if Tampa misses the playoffs, but the Flyers, Caps or Islanders don't, then it's about the roster? Do these teams have a better roster in your opinion? I'm 100% sure that bottom players can play better. for example, when Jeannot scored 24 goals, half of them were tips. Why doesn't Cooper use him in front of net?
Bottom is bad, Cirelli is bad, Stamkos is bad, Conn Smythe winners are bad. Not a single player on the team performs above expectations. if all this happens at the same time, then you should ask questions to the coach.

I'd say the Islanders are probably the closest. I think both Washington and Philadelphia are inferior. I don't get what you're arguing here because I never brought that up. Total strawman. There are always inferior teams on paper that make the playoffs. Especially when compared to the group we normally ice.

Jeannot not scoring a bunch of tips is Coopers fault? Jeannot parks himself in front of the net, what is Cooper supposed to do, shout from the bench; "Now Tanner! Move the stick... now!" Jeannot does what you ask, but he doesn't score. Look at that highlight reel of his on YouTube, a lot of those goals were opportunistic. Poile sold high and we got shafted. Simple as that. Jeannot is a bottom six guy and I'd expect 10 goals a year. I'd temper expectations there.

Yes, the bottom six is bad. A PTO, a last minute signing to fill in for a guy who walked away from hockey, Glendening, and Sheary, yes, that group is bad. I'm not sure what people are expecting Cooper to do there. To be fair, Motte and Glendening are doing their jobs, they aren't goal scorers. They're on a team that desperately needs scoring depth everywhere you can look but they aren't up to task most nights in that department. Cirelli is on pace for his normal play. I've already stated my opinion on Cirelli. Stamkos has been rough 5v5 for a while, this is nothing new. How are Hedman and Vasy's play, especially 1v1 this past week Coopers fault? Have you seen the goals going in? What is Cooper supposed to do?

I don't understand what Cooper is supposed to do about Jeannot not scoring deflections, Hedman defending 1v1s, and Vasy not stopping shots off his ass. This isn't a video game where Cooper is pulling strings and pushing buttons behind the bench.

 

[LightningStrikes]

We have to stop leaking goals i.e. defend better. Defense needs an upgrade and Vasi to pull his head out of his posterior.

 

[T REX]

Lmao

I want to apologize to you, sincerely.

Just disappointed with the current state of our Bolts.

Too many crown royals and not enough wins.

At the end of the day, we're all fans.

I appreciate your level headed outlook and insight.

I'll read more and post less.

 

[Stammertime91]

I want to apologize to you, sincerely.

Just disappointed with the current state of our Bolts.

Too many crown royals and not enough wins.

At the end of the day, we're all fans.

I appreciate your level headed outlook and insight.

I'll read more and post less.

No worries, it's all good. Appreciate the humility and apology but I understand the passion as well. Nobody wants the mediocrity we are seeing and we all have bad takes in our posting history which is why I'm glad I'm not in JBB's shoes where a lot of people would hate my decisions, too. I know the fandom has different personalities and favorites here so everybody's opinions colliding take different paths but ultimately we want these guys to compete and win. If not another cup, at least be a proud team and have the effort like 2015.

 

[Sky04]

No worries, it's all good. Appreciate the humility and apology but I understand the passion as well. Nobody wants the mediocrity we are seeing and we all have bad takes in our posting history which is why I'm glad I'm not in JBB's shoes where a lot of people would hate my decisions, too. I know the fandom has different personalities and favorites here so everybody's opinions colliding take different paths but ultimately we want these guys to compete and win. If not another cup, at least be a proud team and have the effort like 2015.

2014 is a better example, team lost a top-3 player in the league and the top line consisted of 2 rookies, one of our pairings was Carle-Sustr, our leading scorer had 61 points and was traded at the deadline.

That team finished 2nd in the East with 101 points.

But then again, that's what superstar goaltending does for a team. Tampa had no business being as good as they were that year. Meanwhile this year we're sitting on a team with like 5 superstars and they can't put it together.

 

[Ducati Boy]

My take is that only in about 3 or 4 of our losses so far have we really been outplayed. The losses occur because their goaltender tends to be better than ours 3 out of every 4 games, and the team defense/goalie have the habit of dropping a deflating turd goal at the most inopportune times, and we don’t have the comeback ability from our forwards (save one) that we’ve had in the past.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

This feels a bit more like 2011-12. A historic season from a star (Stamkos had 60 in 2012 for the Rocket Richard, Kucherov might win the Art Ross), poor defense, goaltending regression, mostly weak depth. No playoffs in 2012, likely no playoffs in 2024. Yzerman pulled off the Downie trade that ended up landing the 1st that turned into Vasilevskiy. I'm guessing BriseBois won't be able to pull off any sort of heist at this deadline.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

My take is that only in about 3 or 4 of our losses so far have we really been outplayed. The looses occur because their goaltender tends to be better than ours 3 out of every 4 games, and the team defense/goalie have the habit of dropping a deflating turd goal at the most inopportune times, and we don’t have the comeback ability from our forwards (save one) that we’ve had in the past.

They're technically getting outplayed in most losses because they're not generating enough dangerous chances at 5v5. Their expected goals at 5v5 is like 21st in the league, about where they sit in the standings. So unless the work ethic on the forecheck greatly improves, or they start intentionally shooting for bounces off of bodies and in/get rebounds off those bounces, they're likely a below average team

So unless the PP can operate at Oilers of last year level the rest of the season and the goaltending greatly improves, no playoffs for the Lightning. And I'm fine selling at the deadline based on the concerning trends that have been apparent all year. Most of the team looks complacent or exhausted, don't waste assets for fools gold, sell and retool so next year is more promising. Sad to waste one of the last years of elite Kucherov.

 

[Renopucker]

2014 is a better example, team lost a top-3 player in the league and the top line consisted of 2 rookies, one of our pairings was Carle-Sustr, our leading scorer had 61 points and was traded at the deadline.

That team finished 2nd in the East with 101 points.

But then again, that's what superstar goaltending does for a team. Tampa had no business being as good as they were that year. Meanwhile this year we're sitting on a team with like 5 superstars and they can't put it together.

Good points. That team also had Thomas and Gwozdecky as assistants, along with with Bones. That was a stout coaching lineup.

 

[Ducati Boy]

They're technically getting outplayed in most losses because they're not generating enough dangerous chances at 5v5. Their expected goals at 5v5 is like 21st in the league, about where they sit in the standings. So unless the work ethic on the forecheck greatly improves, or they start intentionally shooting for bounces off of bodies and in/get rebounds off those bounces, they're likely a below average team

So unless the PP can operate at Oilers of last year level the rest of the season and the goaltending greatly improves, no playoffs for the Lightning. And I'm fine selling at the deadline based on the concerning trends that have been apparent all year. Most of the team looks complacent or exhausted, don't waste assets for fools gold, sell and retool so next year is more promising. Sad to waste one of the last years of elite Kucherov.

I missed this post before.

I know that statistically we're doing poorly 5 on 5. But again, given the eye test, I'm seeing us gain the offensive zone, make some plays, do some good board work, get some lengthy zone time, but not score. Then, the other team comes down, does the same (or less) and the puck ends up in the back of our net. It's not like we're getting outshot or out-zoned 5 on 5. It's the result.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I missed this post before.

I know that statistically we're doing poorly 5 on 5. But again, given the eye test, I'm seeing us gain the offensive zone, make some plays, do some good board work, get some lengthy zone time, but not score. Then, the other team comes down, does the same (or less) and the puck ends up in the back of our net. It's not like we're getting outshot or out-zoned 5 on 5. It's the result.

The Lightning have 3-4 natural points producers on their team. Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, and maybe Hagel. Hedman is showing age and Sergachev has regressed. No one else was a big time producer at draft age.

 

[Antiramie]

I still don’t get the trade Cirelli people. We have a solid offense, granted it’s being held up by one line, but it is what it is. We have a dog shit bottom 5 defense. The room for improvement for the offense is minimal and for the defense is immense, especially with how it would correlate to wins and losses.

And people want to trade away one of our best defensive forwards. Wut.

I also think Stammer is a bigger black hole of a linemate for Cirelli than the inverse. I’d rather see Sheary or Eyssimont on the 2nd line than Stamkos.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

I still don’t get the trade Cirelli people. We have a solid offense, granted it’s being held up by one line, but it is what it is. We have a dog shit bottom 5 defense. The room for improvement for the offense is minimal and for the defense is immense, especially with how it would correlate to wins and losses.

And people want to trade away one of our best defensive forwards. Wut.

I also think Stammer is a bigger black hole of a linemate for Cirelli than the inverse. I’d rather see Sheary or Eyssimont on the 2nd line than Stamkos.

Don’t think we should trade cirelli either. Agreed with stamkos is a problem linemate esp making 8.5.

Our offense isnt even a line it’s literally Nikita Kucherov going f***ing bananas for us to have a chance too win.

Sheary does need to be on the 2nd line.. in the AHL.

 

[Sky04]

As we can clearly see, an "elite" defensive center is rather useless game in and out when the team isn't stacked. You fix the defense with actual defenseman, Cirelli, at his price is a luxury type player especially with low level of offense he brings. Whatever benefits you get from his defense is offset by the lack of offense you get from him at that price tag. If he were a cheap 3C he'd be extemely valuable but he's paid like a top 6 center and you can't even use him in that role.

 

[Hoek]

Cirelli hasn't added much defense this year either. So many times we see him lost and burned in the middle of the rink while his guy gets an easy tap in (that might be the "system" though). It's getting to the point of "what is it you actually do here?" other than that brief hot spell.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Cirelli hasn't added much defense this year either. So many times we see him lost and burned in the middle of the rink while his guy gets an easy tap in (that might be the "system" though). It's getting to the point of "what is it you actually do here?" other than that brief hot spell.

He's a 3C PK specialist whose 5v5 play consists of weak backhands and average at most everything else. Below average offensively right now.

Trade to the Sharks, Senators, Blue Jackets when you can still fool them that he's elite defensively. The funny thing is is that his game is much better in the playoffs where games are tighter, defensive. But to the contrary of what Mishkin thinks (unless you're the Jets or most years Islanders/Predators), the regular season is about scoring more, and Cirelli doesn't make that happen.

 

[Byrddog]

Cirelli at 3 mil playing on the 3rd line would be acceptable. But he continues to center the 2nd line. He can no be moved to wing because his offensive skills are even worse there.
There is just not a justification to overpay Cirelli. Each year there has been hope he would get some offense going and each year the numbers come up short. With Killorn and Stammer he would reach 40 points now looking into next season he becomes protected by nmc. On a cap starved team full of movment clauses. He is now the most expendable player in the roster as bad as Sergi has been the depth at D us just not there.