GDT: 1/4/13 "JovoCop, You're Back On The Force!" - Predators VS Panthers

[Erick*]

In no way am I saying the season is their fault. Trust me I like guys like Kop and everybody knows my man crush on Upshall but the fact is we have overpaid these guys. That's money as Erick was saying we could use on acquiring bigger assets that we need.

By the way we also have Barch, Matthias, Winchester, Hayes, who are all hard workers who do much of the same.

I'm glad that somebody understands what I'm trying to say.

I'm really not even hating on Kopecky either. I understand that he tries hard. If we were the Edmonton Oilers, I'd probably want to keep Kopecky around. Our situation is entirely different. We have guys that can play the checking lines. We need better top-end talent to compliment the young guys on the team. Kopecky and Upshall are not the answer. They are not good enough, nothing against them. They have their own value.

 

[vendetta]

In no way am I saying the season is their fault. Trust me I like guys like Kop and everybody knows my man crush on Upshall but the fact is we have overpaid these guys. That's money as Erick was saying we could use on acquiring bigger assets that we need.

By the way we also have Barch, Matthias, Winchester, Hayes, who are all hard workers who do much of the same.

Barch mathias Winchester bring effort yes but not nearly as skilled... Just not sure y u have to get rid of these proven vets that aren't a problem to save money when we r nowhere near the cap... Saving 1 million dollars to fill their spots with someone that might not workout isn't helping this team improve.. They're contracts might be slightly overpaid but in no way would I call them bad contracts... Up shall to a point was but this is his first healthy stint and like what he brings to the top 6 and like I said before with kopecky he isn't close to a problem... And Eric still hasn't answered who we r suppose to just magically replace with with in our system cause if we bring in free agent it will surely be overpayment and no saying it doesn't matter doesn't work cause I'm sure it matters to tallon who he's surrounding our youth with

 

[StrangeVision]

Okay, I've got to ask, why are you writing Upshall's name as "Up shall?"

 

[vendetta]

I'm glad that somebody understands what I'm trying to say.

I'm really not even hating on Kopecky either. I understand that he tries hard. If we were the Edmonton Oilers, I'd probably want to keep Kopecky around. Our situation is entirely different. We have guys that can play the checking lines. We need better top-end talent to compliment the young guys on the team. Kopecky and Upshall are not the answer. They are not good enough, nothing against them. They have their own value.

Exactly so y get rid of them? I'm saying u want them gone plus fill our top 6 and that's 5 or six new forwards to get in 1 offseason which earns overpaying others to fill their rolls cause that's what happens 90% of the time in free agency.. We need to add 2 top 6 wingers and top 4 d man and goalie and have plenty of cap room so moving out proven vets that have been around Stanley cup team and knows what it takes is hurting us

 

[Erick*]

Barch mathias Winchester bring effort yes but not nearly as skilled... Just not sure y u have to get rid of these proven vets that aren't a problem to save money when we r nowhere near the cap... Saving 1 million dollars to fill their spots with someone that might not workout isn't helping this team improve.. They're contracts might be slightly overpaid but in no way would I call them bad contracts... Up shall to a point was but this is his first healthy stint and like what he brings to the top 6 and like I said before with kopecky he isn't close to a problem... And Eric still hasn't answered who we r suppose to just magically replace with with in our system cause if we bring in free agent it will surely be overpayment and no saying it doesn't matter doesn't work cause I'm sure it matters to tallon who he's surrounding our youth with

I already answered your question. I already filled out the bottom-six for you.

It's not my fault that you think that Kopecky and Upshall are top-6 players who are difficult to replace. They're not. Kopecky has 9 points this year, for crying out loud.

I'm not sure what you'd like me to answer. You're also not understanding that we have to re-sign some of our own players and this team doesn't really spend to the cap, anyway. Ever. So you're probably delusional in thinking that we're going to have a ton of cap space to fill the holes we have to fill. Every million counts especially when the millions being spent are completely redundant and unnecessary.

 

[vendetta]

Okay, I've got to ask, why are you writing Upshall's name as "Up shall?"

Stupid I pad autocorrect and I don't care to take the time to change it and point still gets across.. Sorry for sloppy typing have ridiculous bulldog jumping all Over me and I just don't really care about soloing and punctuation on a message board to be hinest

 

[vendetta]

I already answered your question. I already filled out the bottom-six for you.

It's not my fault that you think that Kopecky and Upshall are top-6 players who are difficult to replace. They're not. Kopecky has 9 points this year, for crying out loud.

I'm not sure what you'd like me to answer. You're also not understanding that we have to re-sign some of our own players and this team doesn't really spend to the cap, anyway. Ever. So you're probably delusional in thinking that we're going to have a ton of cap space to fill the holes we have to fill. Every million counts especially when the millions being spent are completely redundant and unnecessary.

Ya your filling our bottom six with bergy so now we need 3 top 6 wingers which is more money yet cause they will all be overpaid in free agency and who knows how it works out with them... Just not sure how your gonna fill all these holes your creating through free agency without overpaying a few players... It simply won't happen so keep the known assets that tallon knows is good to have around our kids and fill the 1 or 2 top 6 holes while keeping the high character winners that we know in our system... Again u r not valuing guys like kopecky high enough if u think he is easily replaceable through free agency.. And I'm sure tallon agrees cause he will be here next year... As he should be

 

[gudzilla]

So you want Versteeg back?

For all of your complaining about my complaints, your version of being a GM would be laughable. Everyone who signs their contracts would stay for the entirety of it even when the team isn't good. Fortunately, trades exist and the business doesn't work that way.

Professional sports players understand that sports are a business. They don't think like teenage girls. It's well-known that there's no such thing as loyalty. Losing brings change. Heck, Stanley Cup winners change their respective teams after they win, as well. Change happens. A lot. It's ok.

i understand that you have to trade players, but your opinion of selling everyone as soon as they do well will hurt the franchise in the long run. you wanted to sell players because they did well, not because we didn't need them. the current contracts are good for another year. we can get assets for them at the trade deadline next year if needed. what do you want to flip them for? if they're as bad as you think and replaceable, would you want to retain salary on every contract instead? or take on EVEN worse contracts?

 

[ShootIt]

I understand and agree with Erick. We have an abundance of bottom 6 guys, and there are a few that are overpaid.
However, I rather, at this moment have these guys here so young guys like Trocheck, Grimaldi, Rau and I guess Howden are not forced up until they are ready. Its frustrating watching 3rd liners/4th liners get more playing time than they should. However, this is the hand dealt to the Panthers.


I hope Tallon can trade them off in the off season and replace them with better players. But right now it wouldn't make sense to trade them off for nothing, or have to retain salary and bring up guys from the Ahl who arent ready.

 

[RainingRats]

We need veteran players who are good for the locker room (winning mentality, know what it takes, good influence for young guys, etc.) to play while the young guys get experience in the AHL. The reason we have sucked for so long is because we never did this and we rushed the young guys.

Is Kopecky a bottom 6 forward? Yes, absolutely. Is he good for the locker room? Knows what it takes to win? good influence on the young guys, etc? Yes, absolutely. Who cares if he's overpaid. It's not like we're going to do anything what that "extra money" we would save by getting someone in a similar role for less. I mean, I'm still waiting on the 10 million a year we "saved" from moving Pavel Bure's contract to be spent!

 

[Laus723]

I like Matty a lot, but Kopecky is the better all around player. I'm not sure why you are worried about writing their paychecks, unless you actually do and it is a problem.

This should be of no concern to you.

This is ridiculous, sorry JP. While I have no issues with Kopecky other than his brainfart, plenty of fans concern themselves with players' income. Look at Toronto and NYR, what's wrong with it? Too many players with poor contracts hurt the possibilities of bringing in or keeping better players.

Again, I'm actually fine with Kopecky, my frustrations are well known, but nothing wrong with Erick's looking at it.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

I agree with erick if the only reason we are keeping kopecky is because he has a winning attitude and has cup rings. Well ****. Bring in Marian Hossa or Brad Richards or Corey Perry all stanley cup champions.

Im much more concerned with the makeup of our top 6 than that of our bottom 6. Kopecky and Mathias are both easily replaceable.

 

[SeasonTicket]

When TD announced during our poor start that everyone but 5 players were available for trade the two names that kept coming up that other teams were interested in we're Matthias and Kulikov. Why because they are both young, still have upside and are relatively inexpensive.

No one reported any team interested in kopy or upshall. Why, because they are over paid for what they do. He did trade over paid under performing Versteeg but had to take back $2 mil per year for close to 3 years. I don't think Vinnie would want to do that for others.

Now the interesting thing is TD did not trade either Matthias or Kulikov even though there was the reported interest from other teams. either the offers were not what he wanted or he still has future plans for both.

I think if this team does not make up any more ground in the standings trade deadline time will surprise people by who gets dealt.

 

[Benched]

Ya your filling our bottom six with bergy so now we need 3 top 6 wingers which is more money yet cause they will all be overpaid in free agency and who knows how it works out with them... Just not sure how your gonna fill all these holes your creating through free agency without overpaying a few players... It simply won't happen so keep the known assets that tallon knows is good to have around our kids and fill the 1 or 2 top 6 holes while keeping the high character winners that we know in our system... Again u r not valuing guys like kopecky high enough if u think he is easily replaceable through free agency.. And I'm sure tallon agrees cause he will be here next year... As he should be

Koprcky isn't anywhere near as good as you think. As has already been said he is a checking line forward with decent defense and low offensive output. Replaceable. Quite replaceable, actually. And considering he makes what he does, he should be replaced.

For those who think we should keep him over Matthias, you have no idea how franchises work.

 

[Benched]

Versteeg is gone because he was a cancer to the team. He was making a good salary and floating around the ice. His attitude is why he is gone. Kopecky does not have that attitude. He works hard on the ice and while you may not like his contract he is an asset to the younger players on the team.

I don't think anyone is saying Kopecky doesnt try. He does. He just doesn't have talent that isn't replaceable.

 

[vendetta]

Koprcky isn't anywhere near as good as you think. As has already been said he is a checking line forward with decent defense and low offensive output. Replaceable. Quite replaceable, actually.

im not saying he is a great player and i know he is a checking line forward... im saying he is valuable to have on our team as a checking line forward and all the intagibles that he brings 3 mil isnt that bad of a contract.. yes he is having a down year but he contributes in other ways other than the stat sheet... im saying y get rid of him when we already have enough holes to fil,l were just making another if him and upshall are ousted...young kids need players like him off the ice, on the ice and in the locker room... sure we can bring in a younger cheaper version but that wont make this team better... then u end up like the oilers... we need two top 6 forwards as it is already... kopecky helps this team and there is absolutely no reason to get rid of him... we r better with him than without him... his contract is a non issue for this team moving forward and we have tons of cap space going into next year

 

[vendetta]

I don't think anyone is saying Kopecky doesnt try. He does. He just doesn't have talent that isn't replaceable.

again not saying his talent isnt easily replaceable it is... his leadership work ethic and cup experience is needed on this team... no reason to replace him... none at all... gms value the crap outta cup experience

 

[Benched]

im not saying he is a great player and i know he is a checking line forward... im saying he is valuable to have on our team as a checking line forward and all the intagibles that he brings 3 mil isnt that bad of a contract.. yes he is having a down year but he contributes in other ways other than the stat sheet... im saying y get rid of him when we already have enough holes to fil were just making another if him and upshall are ousted...young kids need players like him off the ice, on the ice and in the locker room... sure we can bring in a younger cheaper version but that wont make this team better... then u end up like the oilers... we need two top 6 forwards as it is already... kopecky helps this team and there is absolutely no reason to get rid of him... we r better with him than without him... his contract is a non issue for this team moving forward and we have tons of cap space going into next year

The thing is that you're not understanding though is that according to his career norms, this isn't a down year for him. It's pretty much his usual season. If anything last year granted he got more minutes was a great year for him. And you replace him for the exact reasons he said. It's an easy holeto fill if you even consider it a hole at all and we save money on a cheaper player who brings similar output.

Quite easy to understand really. You don't keep guy like this around "because he's a winner". You look at his output, see that it's replaceable, and trade him at the deadline to someone who may overpay and bring in anbeasy to find replacement.

 

[vendetta]

The thing is that you're not understanding though is that according to his career norms, this isn't a down year for him. It's pretty much his usual season. If anything last year granted he got more minutes was a great year for him. And you replace him for the exact reasons he said. It's an easy holeto fill if you even consider it a hole at all and we save money on a cheaper player who brings similar output.

Quite easy to understand really. You don't keep guy like this around "because he's a winner". You look at his output, see that it's replaceable, and trade him at the deadline to someone who may overpay and bring in anbeasy to find replacement.

why r we still bringing stats into this? this isnt a fantasy team... u dont just replace a 25-35 point player with a cheaper 25-35 point player... there are other issues on this team.. what would u expect to save bringing in someone with his output? u already know he is great work ethic, buys into the system and is a cup winner and that experience is being terribly undervalued by some here considering the kids that r coming through now and in the future.. u dont just get rid of players like that for cheaper versions...u will still have to overplay for a replacement in free agency anyway cause for the most part thats what free agency is... he is paid 3 million dollars... who cares if its a slight overpayment... were nowhere near the cap the owner wants to win and will spend according to him so im not concerned with saving 500k on one player who brings more to this team than just points...

 

[jrockett1096]

I am also with Erick 100%. I think all of us here have respect for Kopeckys game and what he brings but we are a team that doesn't have the luxury of paying 3 million for 4th line players when we need expensive 1st and 2nd line wingers to replace the Brad Boyes and Scottie Upshalls on those lines. They are not good enough. As mentioned before Kopecky has no business being on any powerplay and I include in the AHL as well. In theory it sounds like a great idea to have him on there and have him be a pest in front of the net and screening the goalie and getting garbage goals from rebounds but he isnt very good at it and probably will never be. Just watch him and look at the stats with all the time he gets. If we had an established star here than Kopecky would likely be a nice piece to add on a playoff team because he is the type of player who does score goals in a grind it out 7 game playoff series but we can't even get to the playoffs because there are no stars here. I know Viola pledged to spend money in the offseason but I highly doubt were going to go from the bottom of payroll in the NHL to right at the cap or even in the top 5-6 payrolls in the league so every million will count and we will have to replace veterans with cheaper labor. Through Panther history we have always been good at attracting these so called "winner" veterans who are in there last years in the league and looking for no income taxes and great weather all year long but its the stars we have a problem attracting. We have to pay top money or over pay and I don't want to be short because the panthers have their own self cap and a million or 2 will prevent us from getting what we never seem to get. A star or superstar in prime years.

 

[jrockett1096]

Every year by the way a Stanley cup winner is crowned and they have free agents or players that have to be cut loose to sign better players they currently have or a free agent to improve in the next year. Its interesting these players that are cut loose suddenly are labeled "winners" which is used mostly by agents to sell there clients around the league and it generally works as gms buy in to that all the time and its accepted as a must have on a hockey team. While i agree its nice to have guys who have "been there and done that" and also nice to have a guy in their resume with "stanley cup winner" by his name and if you can afford to have a guy like that and spend the extra coin for the label then i say why not? Reality is this whole winner thing is really overrated. We have had many many of these high character "winners" on this team like Igor Larionov, Esa Tikannen, Kirk Mueller etc and I think every team has one somewhere and guess what, many of these teams just don't make the playoffs if they don't have top talented players leading the team. Like I said before if you can afford it i say great but if you can't like us then you really have to prioritize and get the biggest need which for us is top talent to play on our top 2 lines and goaltending and not put so much stock into this "we need a winner guy thing at all costs". Sport agents I'm sure love this label because its throughout sports this "winner" thing is seen and its funny how these winners never seem to win again after getting the fatter contract and higher expectations that come with it. Its more propaganda than reality which is the point I hope I made.

 

[FrolikFan67]

I've never been a fan of kopecky his first year here he did nothing statistically. yea he did well the shortened season but a lot of weird stuff happened last season all around the league as far as stats go. idk if people actually expected him to repeat that again, if so idk what to tell you.
he's barely a 3rd liner, will score under 15goals as a full time 3rd liner.
now, since we aren't any where near the cap, its fine that he's a little overpaid, he doesn't even have the worst contract on the team. but now is the time that i hope we'll try to go after some bigger name players, in which case i would try to manage ever dollar as well as possible.
i would rather over pay a bit for a top-6 player that produces and earns it, than a bottom 6 guy who doesn't. i understand he's a great vet, he's been on a SC winner before, I'm sure he's great in the room and great with the guys but I'm alllll for trading him this deadline/off-season if possible. and if he is around next season i hope he's on the 4th line because if upshall continues to play well this season and hopefully stays healthy i can see us letting him play out his final year (on the 3rd), in which case kopecky needs to be on the 4th.

 

[JP Mick]

This is ridiculous, sorry JP. While I have no issues with Kopecky other than his brainfart, plenty of fans concern themselves with players' income. Look at Toronto and NYR, what's wrong with it? Too many players with poor contracts hurt the possibilities of bringing in or keeping better players.

Again, I'm actually fine with Kopecky, my frustrations are well known, but nothing wrong with Erick's looking at it.

I was being a little dramatic, but I don't think Kopecky should be moved because he is making a bit more money than he should be. I agree that TOO many poor contracts are a bad idea... good thing we have Mr. Viola willing to open up the pocketbook this summer! *fingers crossed*

Erick can (and will) say what ever the heck he wants.