08-09 Crosby vs 19-20 mcdavid

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Who are you taking?

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[HighNote]

It's close....VERY close. I think I take McDavid because of his blazing speed, it's something only a couple of other elite players have. MacKinnon's really the only guy close in that regard.

 

[Hynh]

Based on information from the end of the regular season? McDavid. Based on Crosby's playoffs and what is reasonable for McDavid this year? Crosby. The 2009 playoffs are when Crosby's goal scoring exploded. He went from being a great goal scorer (15th in goals per game in his first 4 seasons) to an elite goal scorer (3rd in goals per game for the next 5 seasons behind just Stamkos and Ovechkin). Could something like that happen for McDavid? Maybe. He did spend this year rehabbing a knee injury rather than training normally and he still finished second in league scoring. This break has given him time to train in ways he couldn't last summer. If he takes the Oilers on a deep run where he produces in each series then it becomes a debate again.

 

[Kranix]

Ohhhhh daverrrrr

 

[Gurglesons]

Considering Crosby was still coming back from that high ankle sprain and people were questioning if he "would ever be the same player", McDavid if we are looking at the start of the season.

If we are looking at the end of regular season, I'd probably go Crosby. Pitt was looking unstoppable with Sid and Geno that year. I'm not sure EDM has that same vibe.

End of the season? Depends on what McDavid does this post season, but even then. Crosby's 08-09 run was the start of what solidified him as "one of the greats". Crosby all the way unless McDavid somehow puts up 30+ pts and 10+ goals this post season.

 

[Hatfield]

McDavid is better now than Crosby was in his prime. He’s just been missing the supporting cast he needs to have the same amount of team success that Crosby had in 08/09.

BTW, didn’t Crosby’s scoring kinda dry up after the Caps series in ‘09?

 

[Gurglesons]

McDavid is better now than Crosby was in his prime. He’s just been missing the supporting cast he needs to have the same amount of team success that Crosby had in 08/09.

BTW, didn’t Crosby’s scoring kinda dry up after the Caps series in ‘09?

No. He had 10 pts in 11 games and he only really played like 1 period in one of those.

Also, McDavid is nowhere near the all around threat that Sid was in his prime at this point in his career.

 

[Hatfield]

No. He had 10 pts in 11 games and he only really played like 1 period in one of those.

Also, McDavid is nowhere near the all around threat that Sid was in his prime at this point in his career.

3 points in a 7 game SCF. Am I reading that right?

I’ve seen the guy be a complete no-show in several series, including years when he won Cups. Thank God for Malkin and Kessel.

 

[Gurglesons]

3 points in a 7 game SCF. Am I reading that right?

I’ve seen the guy be a complete no-show in several series, including years when he won Cups. Thank God for Malkin and Kessel.

If we are rating players on how they look in elimination series. Crosby vs McDavid ain't the argument you want to make at this point.

 

[Hatfield]

If we are rating players on how they look in elimination series. Crosby vs McDavid ain't the argument you want to make at this point.

Small sample size for McDavid.

 

[Gurglesons]

Small sample size for McDavid.

Crosby has the best numbers amongst multiple cup winners in his era outside of Kane in the ECF and SCF from what I remember.

Keep reaching though. I'm sure you'll find some point you can grasp at some point that is a reality.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

McDavid for the regular season

 

[Hattrickkane88]

Mcdavid easily, not just because of his better offence but i also prefer his defence, while Crosby would beat Mcdavid in a defensive drill every time that's not all that matters when in an actual game, When Mcdavid does make a defensive play he is a much better counter attacker often leading to a breakaway or two on one, he also gets more takeaways then Crosby which leads to more of these counter attacks.

This is a skill that's greatly underrated for players to have, the trap is one of the hardest things to beat in hockey, especially in the playoffs when the defensive effort is so high. So how do you beat it? Well there still isn't a proven way to destroy the trap except for one thing, DONT GIVE THEM THE TIME TO TRAP with as many counter attacks as possible.

There's also the mind game Mcdavid puts on the other team, players always know a turn over is bad when trying to play offence but usually a bad play turns into a 3on2 and isn't super scary BUT against a guy like Mcdavid they are afraid every turn over is going to be a breakaway causing forwards to play a safer and easier to read game for Mcdavids team to defend.

 

[ImJustJokinen]

Maybe this is a homer take as an Oilers fan, but whenever I see these McDavid or Draisaitl threads I get so exhausted knowing no matter how good they are they are going to get shat on by some posters.

 

[Gurglesons]

Mcdavid easily, not just because of his better offence but i also prefer his defence, while Crosby would beat Mcdavid in a defensive drill every time that's not all that matters when in an actual game, When Mcdavid does make a defensive play he is a much better counter attacker often leading to a breakaway or two on one, he also gets more takeaways then Crosby which leads to more of these counter attacks.

This is a skill that's greatly underrated for players to have, the trap is one of the hardest things to beat in hockey, especially in the playoffs when the defensive effort is so high. So how do you beat it? Well there still isn't a proven way to destroy the trap except for one thing, DONT GIVE THEM THE TIME TO TRAP with as many counter attacks as possible.

There's also the mind game Mcdavid puts on the other team, players always know a turn over is bad when trying to play offence but usually a bad play turns into a 3on2 and isn't super scary BUT against a guy like Mcdavid they are afraid every turn over is going to be a breakaway causing forwards to play a safer and easier to read game for Mcdavids team to defend.

Anaheim f***ed McDavid up in the one series he actually had to play a contender.

I’d argue McDavid’s game at this point is too dependent on his speed and given the way the NHL lets players get away with interference he will never succeed until he plays a more layered approach. Certainly will do it at some point, but Crosby in 08-09 was the perfect playoff player for that era.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Considering Crosby was still coming back from that high ankle sprain and people were questioning if he "would ever be the same player", McDavid if we are looking at the start of the season.

If we are looking at the end of regular season, I'd probably go Crosby. Pitt was looking unstoppable with Sid and Geno that year. I'm not sure EDM has that same vibe.

End of the season? Depends on what McDavid does this post season, but even then. Crosby's 08-09 run was the start of what solidified him as "one of the greats". Crosby all the way unless McDavid somehow puts up 30+ pts and 10+ goals this post season.

Wasn’t McDavid coming back from like 5 different tears in his knee? I thought he was supposed to have full knee reconstruction with a 1 year timeline but he decided to do jumping jacks in a pool instead and he came back and was still the best player in the league.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wasn’t McDavid coming back from like 5 different tears in his knee? I thought he was supposed to have full knee reconstruction with a 1 year timeline but he decided to do jumping jacks in a pool instead and he came back and was still the best player in the league.

So you’d take Crosby over McDavid heading into the regular season in 08-09?

Or are you just trying to say something that has no impact on anything?

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

So you’d take Crosby over McDavid heading into the regular season in 08-09?

Or are you just trying to say something that has no impact on anything?

No I’m just saying I don’t know what your point is. You said, “probably McDavid because Crosby had an ankle sprain coming into the season,” and I just though it was ironic/funny because McDavid was playing the first part of the season on one leg.

I didn’t watch a ton of hockey in 08-09 because I was 9, so I don’t think I’m in a great position to make an educated call on who is better. Either way, I wasn’t trying to insult you, just thought it was funny.

 

[Gurglesons]

No I’m just saying I don’t know what your point is. You said, “probably McDavid because Crosby had an ankle sprain coming into the season,” and I just though it was ironic/funny because McDavid was playing the first part of the season on one leg.

I didn’t watch a ton of hockey in 08-09 because I was 9, so I don’t think I’m in a great position to make an educated call on who is better. Either way, I wasn’t trying to insult you, just thought it was funny.

Ah ok. So, we saw Crosby really underachieve compared to the prior year in 07-08 and while he was amazing in the playoffs it was definitely questionable on whether or not he could do that without Hossa + the cap implications that hit the Penguins.

With McD, I honestly don’t think there was any publicity about the injury until that documentary so in retrospect I’d agree if we are talking start of the regular season McDavid was just the best player in the league versus Crosby who got over shadowed by Ovi and Malkin.

It’d be kind of like if McDavid had a good playoffs but nothing incredible and Drai and MacK went off this year.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

Anaheim f***ed McDavid up in the one series he actually had to play a contender.

I’d argue McDavid’s game at this point is too dependent on his speed and given the way the NHL lets players get away with interference he will never succeed until he plays a more layered approach. Certainly will do it at some point, but Crosby in 08-09 was the perfect playoff player for that era.

Sure but in his first year of the playoffs he got 9 points and was +3, Crosby got 5 points and was +0.


Mcdavid relying on speed is a huge myth. Hockey is a complicated game and it's easy to see why people think this myth because yes technically he has relied on his speed so far BUT that has more to do with his ability to adjust to his team then anything else.

When it comes to slowing down the game it all depends on your teammates and the gravity they have to pull defenders away. If you slow it down and your teammates aren't up to par you are just going to get triple teamed, hit and turn the puck over. Now let's say you try to slow it down while you have Hedman at the point, Point curling around looking to get open You aren't getting triple teamed no more, you probably aren't even going to get double teamed as that will almost guarantee Hedman or Point becoming wide open with a scoring chance.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sure but in his first year of the playoffs he got 9 points and was +3, Crosby got 5 points and was +0.


Mcdavid relying on speed is a huge myth. Hockey is a complicated game and it's easy to see why people think this myth because yes technically he has relied on his speed so far BUT that has more to do with his ability to adjust to his team then anything else.

When it comes to slowing down the game it all depends on your teammates and the gravity they have to pull defenders away. If you slow it down and your teammates aren't up to par you are just going to get triple teamed, hit and turn the puck over. Now let's say you try to slow it down while you have Hedman at the point, Point curling around looking to get open You aren't getting triple teamed no more, you probably aren't even going to get double teamed as that will almost guarantee Hedman or Point becoming wide open with a scoring chance.

I think 06-07 Crosby would sacrifice his soul for a winger like Eberle or even 2017 Lucic on his team.

 

[HarryLime]

Crosby's all around game has always been overrated imo. also his peak was the 2010-2011 season until the concussions started. I would take Sid from that season over any version of McDavid I've seen thus far.

 

[NextYear67]

Crosby for sure

 

[surixon]

If McDavid's defense hadn't regressed as much as it has i would have probably have given him the nod fairly easily as Crosby was struggling to redefine his game after that ankle sprain robbed him of some of his explosiveness. In the end its probably a tie as Crosby's average play in his end at the time is significantly better then the train wreck McDavid was this year.

Crosby at his peack though is a significantly more impactful all around player then what McDavid has shown to date. It will be interesting to see if McDavid can take his play up a notch and round out his game.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Malkin 2011-2012