Post-Game Talk: Zatkon, Zatkoff. Penguins keep their EYE on the prize, beat Rangers 5-2

[HandshakeLine]

And perhaps more importantly, the Pens have to compensate in other areas to minimize those risks. Changing a goalie has a lot of ripple effects.

 

[Shady Machine]

And perhaps more importantly, the Pens have to compensate in other areas to minimize those risks. Changing a goalie has a lot of ripple effects.

Yup. Unless Schultz was injured, I suspect that's why he saw as little ice time as he did. We played more conservatively with Zatkoff in net than we would have with Fleury.

With a healthy Fleury, that alleviates some of the pressure on the D and let's them move up ice more freely. Schultz benefits from that type of system.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

And somehow a +27

Goes to show you how deceiving the +/- stat can really be. See Kunitz's for further validation.

 

[SEALBound]

Zatkoff knew he was playing the night before the game and the Pens proceeded to act like Fleury might start by not having Jarry practice and by MAF being in the net designated for the started in practice (Something like that). Fleury may have also been the first goalie off in practice? They were trying to do something.

Again, I think you're making something of something that isn't there. Just my opinion. I don't think the Penguins were trying to fool anyone. Wouldn't the "fool" be announcing Zatkoff as the starter and then play Fleury? Again, I have extreme doubts that Sully is intentionally playing mind games. I think this is the media and fans playing catch up and letting speculation get the best of them.

It's always in testing to read the local papers after games like this
http://nypost.com/2016/04/14/why-this-is-so-much-more-than-just-a-game-1-loss-for-rangers/

Here we are told this was the worst Rangers playoff game since 2007, which IMO is laughable. They outplayed us the first half by a wide margin, outshot us, out chanced, out hit, name it....(we can discuss whether the Pens were simply nervous or overly cautious due to Zatkoff) but the notion that the NYR played a horrible game is just idiotic.

They played very well for the large part of the game, but they are who they are.

These are the kinds of articles that produce the idiocy you see on Rangers boards here.

PS. What's especially delicious is they can't blame the refs for this one LOL.....

You could see that both teams stunk in the 1st. Rangers were getting the shots and chances though. Difference was, Penguins came out of the funk, Rags didn't.

I'm curious how does knowing what goalie is going to start affect the opposing teams game plan? Shouldn't they expect their best goalie to start, and if that goalie doesn't start shouldn't the game plan be more effective?

I just don't understand how whoever is in net changes the tactics of the opposing team.

There may be very minor tweaks but it does not change your game plan. There may be a tweak of "put any and all shots on him!" to "make him move side to side as best you can".

The notion that the Rangers were game planning for Fleury and were in any way thrown off by Zatkoff is absurd. Again, this is the media and/or fans inventing ideas that are not really there.

Well what happens if Zat blows up in game 2 and now we need a rusty MAF to win game 3?

Cross that bridge when you get there.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

And perhaps more importantly, the Pens have to compensate in other areas to minimize those risks. Changing a goalie has a lot of ripple effects.

They went into full on complete insulation of the goalie.

Shot blocking went up. They made a wall of Penguins a few times... a very fragile wall.
Rebounds were swept away with impressive diligence, tbh. That was some desperation **** when everyone was trying to find the puck after Zatkoff launched it somewhere or couldn't swallow it. The Pens aren't always kind to their backups but they were on it with that.
Odd man breaks, did they even allow one? The Pens are usually good for a few of those. (Edit: Schultz falling over caused on. **** my memory)
They kept flying the zone to the minimum. Even Phil was keeping his ass in the defensive zone and doing work.


That's just complete dedication to trying to stop anything from happening. It wasn't good for the rest of their game and the shot total wasn't low, but they capitalized on their chances and kept Zatkoff from freaking out.

 

[nhindian]

Am I blind? I don't see Murray as "an eater of pucks" or a "black hole when it comes to rebounds"

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Again, I think you're making something of something that isn't there. Just my opinion. I don't think the Penguins were trying to fool anyone. Wouldn't the "fool" be announcing Zatkoff as the starter and then play Fleury? Again, I have extreme doubts that Sully is intentionally playing mind games. I think this is the media and fans playing catch up and letting speculation get the best of them.

I never said it was smart, just that I think that's what they were trying to do. They knew that MAF wasn't even playing but acted like he was.

 

[SEALBound]

I never said it was smart, just that I think that's what they were trying to do. They knew that MAF wasn't even playing but acted like he was.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I don't believe there was any intentional "acting" to suggest one thing or another. Everything was merely speculation by fans and media.

 

[Sjoelbak]

Am I blind? I don't see Murray as "an eater of pucks" or a "black hole when it comes to rebounds"

To be honest, yes. I remember watching the condensed game against the Isles and their announcers kept heaping praise on him. As a former goalie-turned-goalie coach, I fully agree with them. He rarely gives second chances.

 

[gopens66]

Am I blind? I don't see Murray as "an eater of pucks" or a "black hole when it comes to rebounds"

He's light years ahead of Fleury in this regard. Even though MAF has been much better since working with a real goalie coach, Murray has much better rebound control.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I don't believe there was any intentional "acting" to suggest one thing or another. Everything was merely speculation by fans and media.

Agree to disagree.

Could you imagine a huge fight over this?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I don't believe there was any intentional "acting" to suggest one thing or another. Everything was merely speculation by fans and media.

IF the question is "did it matter?" id say no it didn't have an effect. But I don't think its even all that questionable that there was some purposeful misdirection.

They didn't have the guy (Jarry) that would be the backup practice the day of the game.
They had Fluery come off first in the morning skate as a starter usually would.
They had him as an official game time decision even though they told Zatkoff he would start the night before.
Sullivan even admitted in postgame that there was "gamesmanship" going on with the situation.

Again I doubt it had any real effect on the outcome of the game but the intent was pretty clearly there IMO.

 

[Nakawick]

We were ripe for the picking last night. Zatkoff saved our bacon in the 1st period. Other than that though, he was fortunate on a couple shots and was out of position and swimming in the crease a fair amount too. On the Rags PP after the 2-1 goal, the Reverend saved the day with a clear and Kuhnhackl scores the game winner with a shorty. If the Rags score first or tie it in the 3rd, I think there is a pretty good chance we are down a game. If MAF and Murray can't go in game 2, I am comfortable with Zatkoff, but make no mistake, we saw Zatkoff at his best in game one. It would be unreasonable to expect that level of play from him going forward. We need our skaters to play better in game 2.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sullivan mentioned that Sheary loses effectiveness if he's used too much (since he uses up so much energy when he plays), so Sheary has to be limited to like 13 minutes a game. Sheary should be getting like half of his shifts with Sid, but he shouldn't be a staple there. Let him be a 4th liner that gets spot duty with Sid, don't push him into a role he shouldn't be in.

Can't have Sheary tiring himself out with more minutes. He might end up playing like Kunitz!

Here's a thought. Give Sheary the same amount of minutes, just make sure they're all on the 1st line, and demote our best energy conserver to the 4th line with spot duty on the 1st.

 

[SEALBound]

Agree to disagree.

Could you imagine a huge fight over this?

What else are we doing to do between games?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

More ass-covering for Sullivan. The "Sheary gets less effective with more TOI" thing is as dumb as the "We wanted Murray to get experience in a high pressure situation" defense for Murray playing a meaningless game against the Flyers and getting concussed.

How would we know if Sheary would get worse with top line minutes? Have we ever tried it? I don't care what Sullivan saw in WBS. He wasn't playing on a line with Sidney Crosby and Patric Hornqvist.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

Can't have Sheary tiring himself out with more minutes. He might end up playing like Kunitz!

Here's a thought. Give Sheary the same amount of minutes, just make sure they're all on the 1st line, and demote our best energy conserver to the 4th line with spot duty on the 1st.

I'd consider maybe giving Malkin those shifts that Sheary can't take, rather than Kunitz.

I guess that really depends on how much time his line is getting otherwise, though.

 

[SEALBound]

More ass-covering for Sullivan. The "Sheary gets less effective with more TOI" thing is as dumb as the "We wanted Murray to get experience in a high pressure situation" defense for Murray playing a meaningless game against the Flyers and getting concussed.

How would we know if Sheary would get worse with top line minutes? Have we ever tried it? I don't care what Sullivan saw in WBS. He wasn't playing on a line with Sidney Crosby and Patric Hornqvist.

I'd rather them prove that Sheary gets worse with more TOI with Sid and Horny than continue to do what they are doing with Kunitz.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd consider maybe giving Malkin those shifts that Sheary can't take, rather than Kunitz.

I guess that really depends on how much time his line is getting otherwise, though.

That would be ideal. I'm just operating in a world where I don't see our coach going cold turkey with CK on Sid's line, haha.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

What else are we doing to do between games?

Rossi and Madden?


So, how about those mind games from Sullivan?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd rather them prove that Sheary gets worse with more TOI with Sid and Horny than continue to do what they are doing with Kunitz.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Waffle Fries]

More ass-covering for Sullivan. The "Sheary gets less effective with more TOI" thing is as dumb as the "We wanted Murray to get experience in a high pressure situation" defense for Murray playing a meaningless game against the Flyers and getting concussed.

How would we know if Sheary would get worse with top line minutes? Have we ever tried it? I don't care what Sullivan saw in WBS. He wasn't playing on a line with Sidney Crosby and Patric Hornqvist.

Yeah, it is impossible to argue with the results that Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist had last night. Slowly start to feed him more minutes, and if he starts struggling, dial them back.

 

[Joejosh999]

It seems so simple, play Sheary w Crosby until it's obvious Sheary cannot handle the minutes.
And it actually is that simple.

Sullivan is doing this ass-backwards.
Put more simply, MS is unwilling to hurt Kunitz's feelings and is inventing BS and hoping we don't notice.

SOS.

 

[wej20]

To be fair though would our last two coaches have even given Sheary a chance with Sid?

 

[Shady Machine]

Am I blind? I don't see Murray as "an eater of pucks" or a "black hole when it comes to rebounds"

Generally yes you are blind. Murray's strength is his positioning, anticipation, and rebound control. He is very sound in net. He doesn't have a high athletic ability like MAF, so he has to be a smart goalie to make up for it. That said, he's had a few stretches of play where he isn't seeing the puck as well and has kicked out some juicy ones. That's true of all goalies.