Prospect Info: Zach Yuen to re-enter draft - didn't get drafted, now UFA

[IceCapsFanNL]

This sucks from a Caps perspective. He probably would have been here for a while. The talent of this organization is not deep. This is a curious case indeed. Of course we'll never hear why this did not happen. As time goes on I'm seeing more and more curious choices made by the org.

 

[Jet]

Not true at all. If you feel the player has no NHL prospects, there is absolutely no reason to sign the guy. Every team releases players every single season that they feel have no NHL future NOT that they do not have room.

Yes if you have waaay too much depth in a position you trade some of that to solidify another position. But that is fairly rare.



Much MUCH more likely for an average 4th round pick like Yuen is that Jets did not choose to sign him. It is almost completely unrealistic that a non star prospect like Yuen would risk his reputation to re-enter draft.

Not impossible at all, but you need to understand that Jet fans think all our players are worth their weight in gold. Nobody was offering anything for Yuen, and he will not be picked in the third round and probably not at all.

If one team is not willing to sign him to his ELC, there's a chance no other team would want him either. Or at least not pay a pick for him. It makes plenty of sense. I don't know why some of you think something like this is so impossible.

Just to clarify, I am not saying that Yuen is some great prospect, nor that he is a no brainer to make the NHL or something. All I am trying to say is, if you use a pick on a player, a player that by all rights will be drafted again, you retain the guy IF you have room for him. The Jets are not overflowing with depth, even at D. Letting someone you drafted a mere 2 summers ago go for nothing just seems like bad asset management.

Again, I want to hear what the reason is before passing judgement. I have faith in Jets management. It had better not be what Duke is saying because if that is the case, that is just not good player development. You aren't going to be a team that develops from within if you draft players and then give up on them before they turn pro.

 

[Analyst365]

Not signing him is not a failure. It is a negotiation process, and you can't just sign everyone out of need or you'll be held at ransom.

 

[Jet]

Not signing him is not a failure. It is a negotiation process, and you can't just sign everyone out of need or you'll be held at ransom.

You seriously think Zach Yuen was 'holding the team at ransom'? Not saying that isn't the case, but I just don't think that is likely.

 

[sully1410]

They must have seen something they didn't like from him. At the end of the day, he'll probably be a depth Defenseman, and guys like that are a dime a dozen around the NHL. If your going to keep and develop one, he'd have to have some intangible that is worth keeping. Maybe Yuen didnt have any.

 

[Skidooboy]

Not to sound stupid, Chevy, with a plethora of picks in the first three rounds, maybe, just maybe, felt there were better options for his money. Not every pick is a gem. Not every player "fits" in your organization. Maybe they indeed shopped him but didn't get a quality pick offered. Maybe there is a reach draft in one of the 88 players Chevy interviewed that they want to bring here.

 

[surixon]

Not sure why a bunch of people are that upset about this. We will not be signing every player we draft. Its not like Yuen was a high drafted player, he was a late 4th round pick that has serious size limitations. Yes he is a terrific skater but the rest of his game isn't anything spectacular.

 

[Grind]

I think most of us are just confused as he seemed like a good/decent prospect (as mentioned, he seemed to be tracking better then a number of D men we did sign), and was also a player we moved up to get. Of course it's not any major loss or anything like that, but it does seem odd.

 

[meedle]

Not signing him is not a failure. It is a negotiation process, and you can't just sign everyone out of need or you'll be held at ransom.

I'm sure this was the case. They couldn't agree to terms. He prob wanted max for entry level and Chevy wasn't gonna give it to him.

Here is another example of it from Carolina.
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672762&cmpid=rss-williams

 

[angrymnky]

Not sure why a bunch of people are that upset about this. We will not be signing every player we draft. Its not like Yuen was a high drafted player, he was a late 4th round pick that has serious size limitations. Yes he is a terrific skater but the rest of his game isn't anything spectacular.

I thought the mantra was drafting and depth. Isn't this a concern because it means we aren't gaining a player even for the Caps and also that it looks like a draft mistake?

 

[Guerzy]

I'm sure this was the case. They couldn't agree to terms. He prob wanted max for entry level and Chevy wasn't gonna give it to him.

Here is another example of it from Carolina.
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672762&cmpid=rss-williams

Yep. A good example here. I am thinking this was more of Yuen's decision than Winnipeg's. I just don't see Winnipeg not wanting Yuen in the organization, especially at the AHL level as early as this season.

I'd love for Chevy to at least make a statement such as Jim Rutherford did.

 

[surixon]

I thought the mantra was drafting and depth. Isn't this a concern because it means we aren't gaining a player even for the Caps and also that it looks like a draft mistake?

Once again he was a 4th round pick, players drafted that low rarly turn out.

 

[Guerzy]

Once again he was a 4th round pick, players drafted that low rarly turn out.

That's beside the point though. Right now, we have no clue what Yuen will be 2, 3, 4 years down the road. Which is generally why organizations retain these young players. It's a constant cycle, and organizational depth from the NHL to the AHL is critical. 4th round pick or not, you can't just worry about keeping 1st and 2nd rounders because maybe they'll turn out. The entire point of scouting, drafting, and developing is having an efficient cycle within your organization. We as an organization are also trying to build a winning culture with the Ice Caps, which is key in my opinion as our prospects will play there and a winning culture up and down is important for breeding our own players.

Who knows what Yuen becomes, if anything, but to me given we are an organization who's bread and butter is our scouting, our drafting, and our developing, it stinks to lose a young prospect such as Yuen just as he became AHL eligible given TNSE is trying quite hard to stock the cupboards with our own draft picks given what little amount of prospects were in the system from the Atlanta days.

This goes against everything TNSE has shown to be about. No way around it, in my opinion. It isn't going to make or break us, and we shouldn't lose sleep over it, but at the end of the day I view it as unfortunate.

 

[garret9]

I've said this before but to me it's just the logic that confuses me...

He's not a Trouba or high-end prospect, but he's better than a Brassard, or even in the same position he's better prospect than a Chiarot or a Sol... all of whom were given contracts.

It's not about the next draft, as those guys will be 2-4 years away for contracts, enough time that other contracts will expire.

It's not about reaching max contracts number as again Jets have a lot of weaker prospects signed and some "expiring" depth players that they could let walk instead.

It could be about money, but I somehow doubt it since there's only so much he could ask for, as his stat line was decent (and the best Jr stat line this franchise has had on a D since Postma) but was far from being something exceptional still...

Usually prospects get dropped because they no longer look like a prospect worth having (unlikely with Yuen, IMO) or reaching the contract limit (unlikely with Jets, IMO)...


It brings me to the Jokinen and Miettinen vs Antro, Burmi or Welly debate again. Would Antro, Burmi or Welly save the Jets and throw them in the playoffs if they were given more mins on the 2nd line over the other two? Maybe, but probably not... but were they better and more deserving? Yes... unless there is something we don't know about.

So, basically... I don't like it; I don't think it was a good choice; however, I understand and accept there is the possibility of there being something we don't know about... but I haven't been able to think of a good reason yet.

 

[Jet]

I'm sure this was the case. They couldn't agree to terms. He prob wanted max for entry level and Chevy wasn't gonna give it to him.

Here is another example of it from Carolina.
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672762&cmpid=rss-williams

If that is the case, I am 100% behind the decision. Smart organizations don't overpay for unproven players.

 

[surixon]

That's beside the point though. Right now, we have no clue what Yuen will be 2, 3, 4 years down the road. Which is generally why organizations retain these young players. It's a constant cycle, and organizational depth from the NHL to the AHL is critical. 4th round pick or not, you can't just worry about keeping 1st and 2nd rounders because maybe they'll turn out. The entire point of scouting, drafting, and developing is having an efficient cycle within your organization. We as an organization are also trying to build a winning culture with the Ice Caps, which is key in my opinion as our prospects will play there and a winning culture up and down is important for breeding our own players.

Who knows what Yuen becomes, if anything, but to me given we are an organization who's bread and butter is our scouting, our drafting, and our developing, it stinks to lose a young prospect such as Yuen just as he became AHL eligible given TNSE is trying quite hard to stock the cupboards with our own draft picks given what little amount of prospects were in the system from the Atlanta days.

This goes against everything TNSE has shown to be about. No way around it, in my opinion. It isn't going to make or break us, and we shouldn't lose sleep over it, but at the end of the day I view it as unfortunate.

You can't develop everyone and maybe the Jets decided in this particular instance that Yuen wasn't worth further investment or perhaps Yuen was overestimating his worth or didn't want to sign here. I disagree that failing to sign a couple of late round picks such as Yuen goes against the organization philosophy and considering that we have already inked three players from that draft with a likely 4th in Kasdorf shows that they are willing to sign and develop players further.

There are many different ways you can interpret development:

You can do as some people in this form are suggesting and sign every player and spend cash trying to develop them all. The old adage of if you throw enough mud at the wall eventually some will stick. The downside to this is that resources are finite (only so many slots in St. Johns, only so much cash to go around, coaching hours etc.) So in a system like this you may have more players but each receives less $/development, less coaching etc.

The other option is to to have higher standards for offering a contract. The end result might be that you sign fewer players per draft, but it will also enable you to spend more cash and time on the players that you chose to sign.

The second strategy still is heavily influenced by scouting as you need quality scouts/coaches to properly select the players to be further developed. Quite frankly I would rather see more efficient use of resources allocated over a smaller group then see those same resources allocated over a larger group. Whether you believe Yuen should have been included in that group i.e. met that standard is another issue altogether. (If that is the reason he wasn't signed)

If the Jets chose to to do the later, would you still say that goes against their philosophy, all that would change is how they allocate their resources?

We are still years away from being able to measure just how successful the Jets development process is. On an aside I would be very interested in seeing what they use for performance measures and how they determine their standards.

 

[jetsfan8]

For an organization with such shallow prospect depth, this confuses and disappoints me. I'm curious to see why we did not sign Yuen.

shallow?
we have one of the deepest pools of prospects in the entire league

 

[garret9]

shallow?
we have one of the deepest pools of prospects in the entire league

What???
Even Chevy has commented on the very very very shallow nature of the Jets prospect pool due to Atlanta's decisions.
Pretty much every third party scouting has us in bottom 10 in the NHL.

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

If it was about money or him not wanting to sign here then good, I'm glad to see the organization is weeding out those types of characters. If it was the Jets simply not signing him because they didn't like what they saw then I'm a little confused. He seemed like a solid prospect going forward.

 

[garret9]

You can't develop everyone and maybe the Jets decided in this particular instance that Yuen wasn't worth further investment or perhaps Yuen was overestimating his worth or didn't want to sign here. I disagree that failing to sign a couple of late round picks such as Yuen goes against the organization philosophy and considering that we have already inked three players from that draft with a likely 4th in Kasdorf shows that they are willing to sign and develop players further.

There are many different ways you can interpret development:

You can do as some people in this form are suggesting and sign every player and spend cash trying to develop them all. The old adage of if you throw enough mud at the wall eventually some will stick. The downside to this is that resources are finite (only so many slots in St. Johns, only so much cash to go around, coaching hours etc.) So in a system like this you may have more players but each receives less $/development, less coaching etc.

The other option is to to have higher standards for offering a contract. The end result might be that you sign fewer players per draft, but it will also enable you to spend more cash and time on the players that you chose to sign.

The second strategy still is heavily influenced by scouting as you need quality scouts/coaches to properly select the players to be further developed. Quite frankly I would rather see more efficient use of resources allocated over a smaller group then see those same resources allocated over a larger group. Whether you believe Yuen should have been included in that group i.e. met that standard is another issue altogether. (If that is the reason he wasn't signed)

If the Jets chose to to do the later, would you still say that goes against their philosophy, all that would change is how they allocate their resources?

We are still years away from being able to measure just how successful the Jets development process is. On an aside I would be very interested in seeing what they use for performance measures and how they determine their standards.

The question then is why players like Brassard, Sol, Chiarot over someone like Yuen...

Maybe Jets are different but I don't know anyone fan, blogger, or 3rd party scout that places those over Yuen...

I still say it's based off of something we don't know

If it was about money or him not wanting to sign here then good, I'm glad to see the organization is weeding out those types of characters. If it was the Jets simply not signing him because they didn't like what they saw then I'm a little confused. He seemed like a solid prospect going forward.

I thought character was one of their priorities in scouting, so why did we pick him in the first place???
They obviously liked the kid enough after interviews to trade two picks to reach him.
Oh well haha... better Yuen than Trouba...










Not in response to comments above^^

Maybe they have confidence in keeping Kulda?

 

[Hawker14]

Was slowest defenceman, by far, at the '11 training camp.

If he hasn't improved his speed drastically in the past two years, what's the point in signing him. Career minor leaguer, at best.

 

[surixon]

The question then is why players like Brassard, Sol, Chiarot over someone like Yuen...

Maybe Jets are different but I don't know anyone fan, blogger, or 3rd party scout that places those over Yuen...

I still say it's based off of something we don't know




I thought character was one of their priorities in scouting, so why did we pick him in the first place???
They obviously liked the kid enough after interviews to trade two picks to reach him.
Oh well haha... better Yuen than Trouba...










Not in response to comments above^^

Maybe they have confidence in keeping Kulda?

Yes it is interesting that they chose some players over others, but we have no idea as to what their decision making criteria is so its hard to comment on if it was the right choice or not. The other players must have ranked higher according to Jets management either that or as you said their is some other reason that we don't know about.

 

[truck]

shallow?
we have one of the deepest pools of prospects in the entire league

Far from deep in numbers or quality.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

shallow?
we have one of the deepest pools of prospects in the entire league

Assuming Trouba and Scheifele "graduate" next season, that leaves our remaining top prospects as:

Redmond (will be waiver eligible, likely won't be a prospect at this time next year)
O'Dell (see Redmond)
Telegin
Lowry
Pasquale
Kosmachuk
Hellebuyck
Kasdorf
...and then hopefully some ballin' new guys from the 2013 draft.

That's pretty thin. It's not as bad as say Philly or Vancouver, but it's still bottom 10.

 

[JetsFan815]

I find it distressing that certain people are already making excuses to True North. I have faith in the management but that does not mean that we should blindly stand behind any decision made. By all accounts Yuen not being resigned is a very odd move and it is reasonable to question this move. There are questions to be answered here and I'm not letting the Jets front office off the hook until I hear the rationale behind this. Chevy or someone from TN needs to come out and make a statement explaining this move, the fact that they haven't already released a statement is odd. I'm going to be very disappointed if the reason is anything other that Yuen himself not wanting to resign. Money is not an acceptable reason... there is only so much Yuen can demand for an ELC and that relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things is not an acceptable reason to let a prospect go.