Zach Werenski - Update: Signs 3-yr ELC (p. 15)

[Nordique]

Werenski hasn't had much "jump" for a while now. To even play 21 minutes a night, at this point, he's got to play it cool and conserve energy. You can see him floating back if he's behind the play on a rush.

I'd switch him with Murray at 5 on 5. As much fun as it is to see Werenski play such a big role, and to do okay at it, I'd rather see him dominate lesser minutes.

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. Let him focus on running the 1PP, and have a few more minutes of 5v5 on the bench, talking with the coaches, catching his breathe etc.

 

[section 204]

Some of the posts in this thread are really funny. Werenski is fine. Murray is fine. Guys go through good and bad streaks. It happens to EVERYONE. Werenski's bad is better than most defensemen's good.

Agreed.

And I'm over the moon that we're having this debate while our 8th straight win is on the line tomorrow night.

 

[major major]

Idk about that. I think Murray has settled into his 3rd pairing PK only role. Don't see him doing or being much more than that.

Screw switching Werenski with Murray. Murray has had three years and during that time he has proven that he is basically a third pairing dman. And you want to switch out Zack because of 2 games during his first year ??? Please. There is no comparison between them. Murray has proven he is not a Number 1 pairing dman.

Murray is certainly not a third pairing quality d-man, nor a consistent top pair quality guy.

He's barely played on the third pair, at all, ever.

Year 1
When he joined the team, he was placed with Wisniewski and immediately they clicked. He was "Wiz's babysitter", remember? We weren't entirely joking in that description because we needed him there.

Year 2
Injured all year.

Year 3
He eventually moved from second pair to first pair in the second half. He wasn't consistent but was easily somewhere in the #2/3 range. Not someone you want anchoring the top pair, but kind of ideal for the complementary role.

Year 4
He gets injured early this year and he starts off slow on the third pair. In recent weeks he's been gaining his legs back and looks more than ready to get his old job back.

Where exactly he is proving himself as a third pair guy?

No because JMFJ could not take care of Nutivarra. Murray IMO is a #3/4D (wow who would have thought that!?) however he takes care of Nutivarra and covers up his flaws and for this reason is a bottom pairing guy rn. Ideally we would have Jones-ZW, Murray-4D, Johnson-Savard. But right now we don't have that option.

The failing memory continues.

JJ can't take care of Nutivaara? They started the year together, remember? They were good. Then Murray got hurt and JJ was deservedly promoted back to his spot with Savard.

 

[major major]

I don't think Jones and Murray were "great" as a pair last year. Last year Jones did show his potential for greatness. Murray showed that his best is is a B, maybe B+, level of play. I am not saying Murray is a bad player. He certainly is not. But he could never carry Werenski's skates.

Some of the posts in this thread are really funny. Werenski is fine. Murray is fine. Guys go through good and bad streaks. It happens to EVERYONE. Werenski's bad is better than most defensemen's good.

I think Werenski isn't doing anything on the top pair right now that Murray can't do, and there are some things defensively that I think Murray can do better. Werenski's big value is on the PP. I do think Werenski at his best is way better than that, obviously, but we're not going to see him dominate like that again perhaps until he next year, at least not with this level of responsibility. I want to see that dominance again from him, and that's why I want him in an easier role.

Of course this means I "hate" Werenski according to certain reasonable posters. I suppose I should just get used to it.

 

[Viqsi]

The failing memory continues.

JJ can't take care of Nutivaara? They started the year together, remember? They were good. Then Murray got hurt and JJ was deservedly promoted back to his spot with Savard.

...and as he's playing arguably the best hockey of his career alongside Savard and Murray's been able to handle the "babysitter" role as well, he's stayed there after Murray's return from injury.

Just want to get that out there before someone points out that JJ's still there and uses that as justification for "but he didnt go bak there lol murray sucks accept it"

* * *​

I think Werenski isn't doing anything on the top pair right now that Murray can't do, and there are some things defensively that I think Murray can do better. Werenski's big value is on the PP. I do think Werenski at his best is way better than that, obviously, but we're not going to see him dominate like that again perhaps until he next year, at least not with this level of responsibility. I want to see that dominance again from him, and that's why I want him in an easier role.

Of course this means I "hate" Werenski according to certain reasonable posters. I suppose I should just get used to it.

I'm leaning in that direction, but I don't really want to go there until things start to noticeably break down. Mostly because I'd be worried about having a two-rookie pairing (even with Werenski being one of them and being a provisionally accepted badass), and I really don't want to break up JJ-Savard any sooner than we absolutely have to.

 

[Cowumbus]

Murray is certainly not a third pairing quality d-man, nor a consistent top pair quality guy.

He's barely played on the third pair, at all, ever.

Year 1
When he joined the team, he was placed with Wisniewski and immediately they clicked. He was "Wiz's babysitter", remember? We weren't entirely joking in that description because we needed him there.

Year 2
Injured all year.

Year 3
He eventually moved from second pair to first pair in the second half. He wasn't consistent but was easily somewhere in the #2/3 range. Not someone you want anchoring the top pair, but kind of ideal for the complementary role.

Year 4
He gets injured early this year and he starts off slow on the third pair. In recent weeks he's been gaining his legs back and looks more than ready to get his old job back.

Where exactly he is proving himself as a third pair guy?




The failing memory continues.

JJ can't take care of Nutivaara? They started the year together, remember? They were good. Then Murray got hurt and JJ was deservedly promoted back to his spot with Savard.

Except not. I and the Game day threads seem to remember Nutivarra playing with Prout and Savard more regularly than JJ. Regardless JJ and Nutivarra will not be a pairing that will work in the playoffs, JJ defensive game isn't great enough to cover for Nutivarras mistakes.

 

[major major]

Except not. I and the Game day threads seem to remember Nutivarra playing with Prout and Savard more regularly than JJ. Regardless JJ and Nutivarra will not be a pairing that will work in the playoffs, JJ defensive game isn't great enough to cover for Nutivarras mistakes.

Yes I think I was thinking of Savard. But now that I check the numbers JJ and Nutivaara did have two games together, and I don't remember any problems. I really don't buy this theory you have that JJ isn't good enough to cover Nutivaara. JJs D game has been rock solid.

 

[Columbus Jack]

Or maybe Nutivaara isnt as bad as you all think *cough* 5 points with a plus 5 *cough*

Erhm nothing to see here.

Who are we designating to babysit Markus again?

 

[Cowumbus]

Or maybe Nutivaara isnt as bad as you all think *cough* 5 points with a plus 5 *cough*

Erhm nothing to see here.

Who are we designating to babysit Markus again?

5 points +5 wow what a player!!! 4A and 1G with 3 of his 5 points in his last 7 games when playing with *cough* Murray Seriously though, he does have defensive deficiencies, you can see this relatively every game, he gets walked around a lot too, he's not terrible but his D game isn't good enough to be successful without Savard or Murray IMO. I think Savard babysits JJ to an extent too.

 

[Columbus Jack]

The whole "he got walked twice he's awful" is pure hyperbole. I would imagine any first year rookie has defensive deficiencies but being babysitted? He holds his own for the 10-15 minutes he plays a night. I'm not going to ask much out of our 6th defender. As I have said before he will only inprove and I really dont like the potential replacements at this moment. Try focusing in on his game against Calgary. The funny thing is about this place, you inevitably get labeled as X guy who defends X player, I want to clarify now, Nutivaara up to this point deserves more credit for what he is doing. Hell if Werenski wasnt on this team, he'd be getting more credit, dman is one of the most difficult positions to play in the NHL as a rookie. Which makes what Werenski is doing even more impressive.

 

[blahblah]

5 points +5 wow what a player!!! 4A and 1G with 3 of his 5 points in his last 7 games when playing with *cough* Murray Seriously though, he does have defensive deficiencies, you can see this relatively every game, he gets walked around a lot too, he's not terrible but his D game isn't good enough to be successful without Savard or Murray IMO. I think Savard babysits JJ to an extent too.

I just have to laugh, otherwise it's just kind of sad.

 

[Byrral]

Man that Werenski kid is so good there's nothing to talk about so his thread changed into a Nutivaara discussion.

 

[Cowumbus]

The whole "he got walked twice he's awful" is pure hyperbole. I would imagine any first year rookie has defensive deficiencies but being babysitted? He holds his own for the 10-15 minutes he plays a night. I'm not going to ask much out of our 6th defender. As I have said before he will only inprove and I really dont like the potential replacements at this moment. Try focusing in on his game against Calgary. The funny thing is about this place, you inevitably get labeled as X guy who defends X player, I want to clarify now, Nutivaara up to this point deserves more credit for what he is doing. Hell if Werenski wasnt on this team, he'd be getting more credit, dman is one of the most difficult positions to play in the NHL as a rookie. Which makes what Werenski is doing even more impressive.

Forget about the two ones hat make the highlight reel, I'm talking about plays like in Detroit that everyone talked about in the game day thread, or in Boston where he blindly threw the puck away and Marchand picked it up and scored.

I think you fail to understand that I think he should be on the roster and will improve seeing that he is a rookie, however he needs to be sheltered at this point in time and needs to work on his d. He is a PPQB type guy so it's understandable his d isn't on the level it needs to be yet. I want him to succeed just like you, just calling it how it is.

Edit: It was Belesky who scored not Marchand

 

[Columbus Jack]

Forget about the two ones hat make the highlight reel, I'm talking about plays like in Detroit that everyone talked about in the game day thread, or in Boston where he blindly threw the puck away and Marchand picked it up and scored.

I think you fail to understand that I think he should be on the roster and will improve seeing that he is a rookie, however he needs to be sheltered at this point in time and needs to work on his d. He is a PPQB type guy so it's understandable his d isn't on the level it needs to be yet. I want him to succeed just like you, just calling it how it is.

Edit: It was Belesky who scored not Marchand

Lol those were the exact two gaffs I was thinking about, and I'll end the Markus Werenski thread here with this post. In my opinion he has been sheltered and has been decent enough to merit play over the likes of Harrington(played twice, seemed shakey) and Prout, who hasnt been good or even useful other than knocking out Lucic.

 

[blahblah]

Man that Werenski kid is so good there's nothing to talk about so his thread changed into a Nutivaara discussion.

I guess people gotta find something to complain about. Nutivaara seems to be it.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I'm not going to ask much out of our 6th defender. As I have said before he will only inprove and I really dont like the potential replacements at this moment.

In the big picture ain't it kind of important, if you are aiming for the play-offs, to have players who could take big steps forward during the season?

 

[Columbus Jack]

In the big picture ain't it kind of important, if you are aiming for the play-offs, to have players who could take big steps forward during the season?

If you read my other posts you would realize that I agree with you.

 

[Nordique]

top 5 +/- d pairings in the league, I know +/- is more of a team stat, but its a good relative measure.

Suter/Spurgeon +34
Cole/Schultz +34
Weber/Beaulieau +30
Johnson/Savard +28
Mcdonaugh/Giradi +23


fyi

Werenski/Jones +11
Nutivaara/Murray +10

 

[Viqsi]

I think you fail to understand that I think he should be on the roster and will improve seeing that he is a rookie, however he needs to be sheltered at this point in time and needs to work on his d. He is a PPQB type guy so it's understandable his d isn't on the level it needs to be yet. I want him to succeed just like you, just calling it how it is.

FYI, he kind of is being sheltered right now - that's why Murray is watching over him. His average TOI is also really, really low (half the forward corps sees the ice more than him). So what you think should be going on is in fact going on, and we should therefore have nothing to worry about.

 

[niflheim]

Werenski kid is so good there's nothing to talk about

he is rare gem.

 

[EDM]

Werenski is so good that in one third of a season he has surpassed Murray's season record for rookie points by a d-man.

 

[We Want Ten]

Speaking of Murray, he has 3 pts. on the year so far.

I find that amazing.

 

[brianhatesu]

Speaking of Murray, he has 3 pts. on the year so far.

I find that amazing.

He's not really a goal scorer and we are going with only one d-man per power play line so a drop is to be expected. Still it would be nice for a couple more assists.

 

[Byrral]

My heart sank a little when Zach took that slap shot off is hand?wrist?arm?

Must be sore today. Hope he's ok like Torts said.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Murray is as one dimensional as it gets. His best season is still his rookie season. He's a solid defenseman but he's never going to live up to his draft status IMO. He's a 5th or 6th defenseman who plays the PK and can on be PP if injuries strike on this team and probably won't be much more.