Yzerman in on Seth Jones?

[jkutswings]

The Werenski delusion needs to chill, he'll be an RFA when his contract ends and its wild how many people just assume he's a guaranteed Red Wing (yes I've seen the intermission videos of him eating dinner with Larks).

I agree that it's far from a guarantee that he comes to Detroit. But Columbus better get their act together fast or he will definitely be leaving town for SOME other team.

 

[Bench]

The Werenski delusion needs to chill, he'll be an RFA when his contract ends and its wild how many people just assume he's a guaranteed Red Wing (yes I've seen the intermission videos of him eating dinner with Larks).

Well, sure that... and people with connections have just flat out said they keep hearing that's where he wants to end up.

It's not a guarantee but it's a poorly kept secret it's where he'd prefer to play.

We also have the Columbus GM on record saying that if an RFA refuses an extension beyond one year, he's going to pursue a trade of said player. They've bled too much talent not to try to deal guys before they hit UFA.

 

[ThankGord]

I agree that it's far from a guarantee that he comes to Detroit. But Columbus better get their act together fast or he will definitely be leaving town for SOME other team.

Well, sure that... and people with connections have just flat out said they keep hearing that's where he wants to end up.

It's not a guarantee but it's a poorly kept secret it's where he'd prefer to play.

We also have the Columbus GM on record saying that if an RFA refuses an extension beyond one year, he's going to pursue a trade of said player. They've bled too much talent not to try to deal guys before they hit UFA.

Yeah, I've read all the reports and hearsay that have been posted on these boards repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him, just kinda tired of people penciling him into our future lineup as if he's one of our prospects.

Columbus has already taken steps to improve by making coaching/front-office changes and have two more seasons to try and get him locked up long term.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, I've read all the reports and hearsay that have been posted on these boards repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him, just kinda tired of people penciling him into our future lineup as if he's one of our prospects.

Columbus has already taken steps to improve by making coaching/front-office changes and have two more seasons to try and get him locked up long term.

It's very easy to see how this goes. If Werenski will sign long-term to Columbus, he'll - obviously - stays there.

But if they can't get him signed - just short RFA-extensions contract after contract - then there's something on his mind.

A change of scenery.

 

[evolutionbaby]

Well, sure that... and people with connections have just flat out said they keep hearing that's where he wants to end up.

It's not a guarantee but it's a poorly kept secret it's where he'd prefer to play.

We also have the Columbus GM on record saying that if an RFA refuses an extension beyond one year, he's going to pursue a trade of said player. They've bled too much talent not to try to deal guys before they hit UFA.

Who have they lost to FA? They traded Johansen, PLD, Panarin? Was Duchene ever more than a rental there? I guess Bobrovsky but that was for the best.

 

[ThankGord]

It's very easy to see how this goes. If Werenski will sign long-term to Columbus, he'll - obviously - stays there.

But if they can't get him signed - just short RFA-extensions contract after contract - then there's something on his mind.

A change of scenery.

Sure, it's also easy to imagine Columbus trading him to a playoff team where he gets a taste of winning, forgets Detroit, and signs long term.

 

[Bench]

Who have they lost to FA? They traded Johansen, PLD, Panarin? Was Duchene ever more than a rental there? I guess Bobrovsky but that was for the best.

Panarin left in UFA, too. And despite how Bob has underwhelmed in Florida, they could have traded him for something significant before all that.

Regardless, I'm just relaying what the GM said. He was very clear this off-season that if a player is refusing to sign long-term, they will seek trade options to avoid losing talent for nothing.

 

[Bench]

Sure, it's also easy to imagine Columbus trading him to a playoff team where he gets a taste of winning, forgets Detroit, and signs long term.

Yeah, that's possible. Things change. But you implied all the speculation was only wishful thinking. I don't think that's the case. Reliable people have said he wants to go to Detroit. We'll see if both sides can make it work, though.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Panarin left in UFA, too. And despite how Bob has underwhelmed in Florida, they could have traded him for something significant before all that.

Regardless, I'm just relaying what the GM said. He was very clear this off-season that if a player is refusing to sign long-term, they will seek trade options to avoid losing talent for nothing.

Something tells me that Seth Jones AND Werenski aren't long for Columbus, then. Jarmo has the reputation of making contract negotiations very difficult.

 

[Henkka]

That playoff team argument is funny. How can anybody be interested in Detroit because we are such a bad team.

Yeah we have been. But the dead weight from the cap is gone and team is young and rising soon. Yzerman as a builder, everybody knows that we are one of the contenders in the near future. Joining the contender will make that even more probable.

And what comes to Columbus, it's a young team too. But somehow, everybody wants out from there. They are forced to re-tool all the time until something stable will happen. That's not Detroit's problem.

 

[Bench]

Something tells me that Seth Jones AND Werenski aren't long for Columbus, then. Jarmo has the reputation of making contract negotiations very difficult.

Yeah, unless Werenski signs long-term this year, he's gone.

I dug up the quote I remember reading.

Blue Jackets GM Kekalainen talks Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, offseason

The Blue Jackets didn’t get a thing in return, other than a memorable sweep of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the playoffs, so the question must now be asked: Can they afford to go down that route again?

“Well, we’re not doing that,” Kekalainen said Friday. “It all depends on where our team is at right now, but I’m not sure that I envision a similar situation for our team. It was very unique. It wasn’t just one player (in 2019). There were several players that were at the end of their contract.”

Do you also plan to push for a long-term extension with Zach this summer?

JK: “Yes, of course. That’s why we traded Josh Anderson, because he didn’t want to do anything more than one year, where he could just walk at the end of the year. That’s insane. If you’re going to take it to a UFA (situation), you want at least a couple more years, if not more. But to do a one-year (extension) and make him a UFA at the end of it doesn’t make any sense, because it doesn’t add to the trade value and it doesn’t add to anything.”

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, unless Werenski signs long-term this year, he's gone.

I dug up the quote I remember reading.

Blue Jackets GM Kekalainen talks Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, offseason

The Blue Jackets didn’t get a thing in return, other than a memorable sweep of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the playoffs, so the question must now be asked: Can they afford to go down that route again?

“Well, we’re not doing that,” Kekalainen said Friday. “It all depends on where our team is at right now, but I’m not sure that I envision a similar situation for our team. It was very unique. It wasn’t just one player (in 2019). There were several players that were at the end of their contract.”

Do you also plan to push for a long-term extension with Zach this summer?

JK: “Yes, of course. That’s why we traded Josh Anderson, because he didn’t want to do anything more than one year, where he could just walk at the end of the year. That’s insane. If you’re going to take it to a UFA (situation), you want at least a couple more years, if not more. But to do a one-year (extension) and make him a UFA at the end of it doesn’t make any sense, because it doesn’t add to the trade value and it doesn’t add to anything.”

If we want Werenski we would probably have to trade a cost-controlled asset + in return. He's an RFA until 2022 and if he signs a 1 year deal can be UFA by 2023 by hitting his 7 years in the league.

I'm hoping that we can build a package for him sooner rather than later. Our prospect pool is deep enough that trading a blue chipper (McIsaac, Wallinder, Tuomisto) along with a roster player like Hronek isn't going to break us.

I think the Wings have a choice between 2 paths;
Stay the course and build only through the draft, and probably not make the postseason until 2024 or later. My worry with this path is that it may send a message that we're content losing for another year. I'm definitely not.

Leverage our excessive cap space to completely rebuild like a modern expansion franchise, take a few cap relief trades and make a push for the postseason either in 2022 or 2023. The worry here is the declining performance of FAs over time. Some positions age better than others.

Either way, with our current prospect pool and whatever we add to it in 2021 you're looking at a 5 to 8 year window of opportunity from the start of that push.

 

[jkutswings]

Either way, with our current prospect pool and whatever we add to it in 2021 you're looking at a 5 to 8 year window of opportunity from the start of that push.

But it's fun to think that we're moving from the "bottoming out and shedding contracts" phase to the "start the climb" phase. And if there's a way to make it happen, I'd love to make Werenski part of that climb.

 

[Bench]

But it's fun to think that we're moving from the "bottoming out and shedding contracts" phase to the "start the climb" phase. And if there's a way to make it happen, I'd love to make Werenski part of that climb.

Adding just two strong blueliners is going to help so much and make the team look bearable again. For all our scoring woes, the blueline remains the biggest issue on the roster.

Seider appears to be one, but he's still going to take a few years until he's at his best. Like you said, someone like Werenski would be a huge boon to taking this team from bottom dweller to up and comer.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

But it's fun to think that we're moving from the "bottoming out and shedding contracts" phase to the "start the climb" phase. And if there's a way to make it happen, I'd love to make Werenski part of that climb.

The last contract we have to shed is Nielsen and hopefully he develops an equipment allergy this offseason. That's the last of Holland's gifts remaining.

I really think that we can go from 5th worst to 18th or better if we make some really shrewd moves in free agency and from trades. There is a possibility we could be the 3rd or 4th best team in the Atlantic division with some luck and good moves.

Boston - Decline. Some players are getting pretty old and their defense is a lot thinner than it used to be.
Toronto - Decline. I'm expecting heads to roll either during the 2021-22 season or after. Their problems seem cultural amongst the players.
Tampa - Decline, depending on who they lose in expansion. Plus Killorn is hurt and Hedman probably needs foot surgery.
Florida - Stay the same. They have enough cap to sign their FAs and maintain the course but it's hard to improve on what they did last season.
Montreal - Decline. They were a great cinderella story but I don't think they're a playoff team under normal circumstances.
Buffalo - Decline. I'll just leave it at that.
Ottawa - Rise. Their young guys were looking pretty good. Once they improve team defense they could be nasty.

There will be a lot more points up for grabs within the division.

 

[Hen Kolland]

If we want Werenski we would probably have to trade a cost-controlled asset + in return. He's an RFA until 2022 and if he signs a 1 year deal can be UFA by 2023 by hitting his 7 years in the league.

I'm hoping that we can build a package for him sooner rather than later. Our prospect pool is deep enough that trading a blue chipper (McIsaac, Wallinder, Tuomisto) along with a roster player like Hronek isn't going to break us.

I think the Wings have a choice between 2 paths;
Stay the course and build only through the draft, and probably not make the postseason until 2024 or later. My worry with this path is that it may send a message that we're content losing for another year. I'm definitely not.

Leverage our excessive cap space to completely rebuild like a modern expansion franchise, take a few cap relief trades and make a push for the postseason either in 2022 or 2023. The worry here is the declining performance of FAs over time. Some positions age better than others.

Either way, with our current prospect pool and whatever we add to it in 2021 you're looking at a 5 to 8 year window of opportunity from the start of that push.

This is why I have been extremely receptive to Brandt Clarke if this is the direction we are taking. Clarke steps in to the 2 hole on the right side, Werenski steps in.

You'd lose Hronek and some other players/prospects/picks. But you'd reset the deck, increase potential, and add to the D core. The question would be what damage would you do to the forward depth potentially.

 

[FabricDetails]

Well, sure that... and people with connections have just flat out said they keep hearing that's where he wants to end up.

It's not a guarantee but it's a poorly kept secret it's where he'd prefer to play.

So I haven't seen this. And I haven't looked to hard for it beyond 1-2 pages on Google. Has this mainly come from the forum/blog universe? If so, then nothing wrong with that at all. I'm only wondering where the hell I've been if I'm not seeing it, haha.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This is why I have been extremely receptive to Brandt Clarke if this is the direction we are taking. Clarke steps in to the 2 hole on the right side, Werenski steps in.

You'd lose Hronek and some other players/prospects/picks. But you'd reset the deck, increase potential, and add to the D core. The question would be what damage would you do to the forward depth potentially.

Damage to the forward pool? Nothing that can't be reset from our current prospect pool, FA or future drafts.

Let's say in this scenario we send Rasmussen + Hronek + a 2nd or 3rd to CBJ for Werenski.

Let's also assume that Rasmussen doesn't become better than Tage Thompson. That's a level of player that can be replaced from within, trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for, or via UFA. That's not much opportunity cost.

Let's also assume that at his lowest career potential Clarke is no better than Hronek. A 30-40 point defenseman who doesn't play strong defense in his own zone. If we get Clarke at his best then maybe he's Adam Fox 2.0.

We can build the package a number of ways to include a forward like Bertuzzi but that ups what needs to come back from Columbus or reduces the need us sending a pick. We could make this work where it doesn't really hurt. However I don't bite on a trade for Werenski if it requires a 1st unless it's ONLY the 1st we're trading. Then I consider moving Hronek for an additional 1st (probably #17 or later) and make a move for Lambos.

 

[golffuul]

Yeah, unless Werenski signs long-term this year, he's gone.

I dug up the quote I remember reading.

Blue Jackets GM Kekalainen talks Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, offseason

The Blue Jackets didn’t get a thing in return, other than a memorable sweep of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the playoffs, so the question must now be asked: Can they afford to go down that route again?

“Well, we’re not doing that,” Kekalainen said Friday. “It all depends on where our team is at right now, but I’m not sure that I envision a similar situation for our team. It was very unique. It wasn’t just one player (in 2019). There were several players that were at the end of their contract.”

Do you also plan to push for a long-term extension with Zach this summer?

JK: “Yes, of course. That’s why we traded Josh Anderson, because he didn’t want to do anything more than one year, where he could just walk at the end of the year. That’s insane. If you’re going to take it to a UFA (situation), you want at least a couple more years, if not more. But to do a one-year (extension) and make him a UFA at the end of it doesn’t make any sense, because it doesn’t add to the trade value and it doesn’t add to anything.”

I love that Kekolainen thinks players won't try and bend him over a barrel again. He's, IMO, the most naive GM in the league when it comes to gauging his roster and figuring out contracts.

 

[Gniwder]

Tampa - Decline, depending on who they lose in expansion. Plus Killorn is hurt and Hedman probably needs foot surgery.

Hedman is their LTIR cap space move next season, so they can do one more playoff while being over the cap. They probably lose someone like Foote in the expansion assuming they don't make a deal. I think they've got one more run next season before things start falling apart.

 

[Bench]

So I haven't seen this. And I haven't looked to hard for it beyond 1-2 pages on Google. Has this mainly come from the forum/blog universe? If so, then nothing wrong with that at all. I'm only wondering where the hell I've been if I'm not seeing it, haha.

It was on Nick Kypreos' podcast. At the 56:30 mark.

"All I've heard the last few days is that it's Werenski's goal to go back to Michigan. Someone told me, 'Mark my words that guy's going to be a Red Wing.'"

 

[Hen Kolland]

Damage to the forward pool? Nothing that can't be reset from our current prospect pool, FA or future drafts.

Let's say in this scenario we send Rasmussen + Hronek + a 2nd or 3rd to CBJ for Werenski.

Let's also assume that Rasmussen doesn't become better than Tage Thompson. That's a level of player that can be replaced from within, trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for, or via UFA. That's not much opportunity cost.

Let's also assume that at his lowest career potential Clarke is no better than Hronek. A 30-40 point defenseman who doesn't play strong defense in his own zone. If we get Clarke at his best then maybe he's Adam Fox 2.0.

We can build the package a number of ways to include a forward like Bertuzzi but that ups what needs to come back from Columbus or reduces the need us sending a pick. We could make this work where it doesn't really hurt. However I don't bite on a trade for Werenski if it requires a 1st unless it's ONLY the 1st we're trading. Then I consider moving Hronek for an additional 1st (probably #17 or later) and make a move for Lambos.

Well we need to figure out are we buying Werenski, or is Columbus selling him out of necessity.

If we are just going to Columbus and asking for him, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Hronek and Zadina and maybe more. They get to set the punitive price. If they are selling him out of necessity, the price comes down our way.

I don’t think adding Bertuzzi elicits more return from Columbus though. Bertuzzi and Hronek isn’t like a jackpot or anything

 

[FabricDetails]

It was on Nick Kypreos' podcast. At the 56:30 mark.

"All I've heard the last few days is that it's Werenski's goal to go back to Michigan. Someone told me, 'Mark my words that guy's going to be a Red Wing.'"

Huh. Nice receipt. That wasn't that long ago either. Must have just missed it.

 

[Bench]

Huh. Nice receipt. That wasn't that long ago either. Must have just missed it.

It's definitely a juicy bit of news! And given everything we know about Larkin and his boy, there's no reason not to believe it. It makes perfect sense.

I think it flew under the radar because the context for the discussion was Seth Jones wanting out, so that's kind of dominated the headlines. Also because it's Columbus and the hockey media market there isn't exactly bustling.

If this was happening in Toronto or pundits were saying he wanted to go to Toronto, we'd have threads on it in the trade forum every other day.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Well we need to figure out are we buying Werenski, or is Columbus selling him out of necessity.

If we are just going to Columbus and asking for him, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Hronek and Zadina and maybe more. They get to set the punitive price. If they are selling him out of necessity, the price comes down our way.

I don’t think adding Bertuzzi elicits more return from Columbus though. Bertuzzi and Hronek isn’t like a jackpot or anything

I think that Yzerman only makes the trade if he knows that Werenski is going to be traded ala Josh Anderson.

Look at the Anderson for Domi trade.
Josh Anderson Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Undersized, underperforming top 6 scorer plus a 3rd for big, physical top 6 winger. Obviously Werenski is a better player but I think that we could make a trade work in our favor with Yzerman pulling the strings. And if healthy a Bertuzzi and Hronek deal for Werenski might be doable.