Blue Jays Discussion: Youth Movement (Pompey, Norris among Sept call-ups)

[BertCorbeau]

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[AINEC*]

RIP 2014 Season

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yup, sadly it's all over now
There will be some big decisions to be made soon

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yup, sadly it's all over now
There will be some big decisions to be made soon

Jeff Blair was bending over backwards on 590 yesterday, defending AA and proclaiming how he won't get fired after this debacle.

I really, really hope he's wrong. They're really circling the wagons down the stretch in an attempt to protect him from criticism, but I don't see how he gets out of this.

 

[TootooTrain]

Why does trading Bautista signal a complete rebuild and subsequently makes Melky's decision to bolt a surety? It's one player. Retool, compete next season with an injection of young talent with more experience in Stroman/Sanchez/Hutch and possibly Pompey if they continue to push him through the system. Melky seems more buddy buddy with Reyes than Bautista anyway.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Why does trading Bautista signal a rebuild and subsequently makes Melky's decision to bolt a surety? It's one player. Retool, compete next season with an injection of young talent with more experience in Stroman/Sanchez/Hutch and possibly Pompey if they continue to push him through the system. Melky seems more buddy buddy with Reyes than Bautista anyway.

Rasmus is as good as gone, too.

I think he checked out a while back, though.

 

[canucksfan]

Jeff Blair was bending over backwards on 590 yesterday, defending AA and proclaiming how he won't get fired after this debacle.

I really, really hope he's wrong. They're really circling the wagons down the stretch in an attempt to protect him from criticism, but I don't see how he gets out of this.

If you fire him who do you bring in? I think he has done a decent job. He has rebuilt the farm system really well.

 

[BertCorbeau]

AA's done pretty well with trades - if there's one person I'd trust to get maximum value out of dealing Bautista, it'd be him

Question being though is will AA look to rebuild the offense entirely now?

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm very torn on the whole AA argument.

He's done an amazing job with on the drafting and development side of things, our farm is great and we're just starting to reap what we've sown down there.

However he's been terrible in regards to the importance of the bench and depth, the waiver wire won't cut it, and neither will hanging onto a shred of hope that these uber athletic bullpen arms will somehow find it after years of trying and thus keeping them on the 25 just because and screwing over the bench in the process. I know you don't want to throw away assets for nothing but sometimes you got to have to field the best team possible, and if you have to throw away a 5 dollar bill to do so then so be it, there's a very good chance that 5 dollar bill won't be worth anymore than the 5 dollars it's currently worth.

But I fear the unknown of AA being canned, his replacement coming in with a win now philosphy, trade prospects for garbage, and years and years of more crap.

If AA could learn how to establish and use an MLB roster he'd be awesome because he knows how to develop a farm

 

[canucksfan]

I'm very torn on the whole AA argument.

He's done an amazing job with on the drafting and development side of things, our farm is great and we're just starting to reap what we've sown down there.

However he's been terrible in regards to the importance of the bench and depth, the waiver wire won't cut it, and neither will hanging onto a shred of hope that these uber athletic bullpen arms will somehow find it after years of trying and thus keeping them on the 25 just because and screwing over the bench in the process. I know you don't want to throw away assets for nothing but sometimes you got to have to field the best team possible, and if you have to throw away a 5 dollar bill to do so then so be it, there's a very good chance that 5 dollar bill won't be worth anymore than the 5 dollars it's currently worth.

But I fear the unknown of AA being canned, his replacement coming in with a win now philosphy, trade prospects for garbage, and years and years of more crap.

If AA could learn how to establish and use an MLB roster he'd be awesome because he knows how to develop a farm

I would think he has learned his bench lesson by now. Last year he had a similar problem and this year was much worse.

 

[mikebel111*]

looking at this slump or "callapse"
am not sure what to say really. I still blame it a lot on the players. Fine, I would have preferred AA do something, but seriously will people actually tell me getting guys like EE and Lind are not enough?
I am with AA on this one, players just felt sorry for themselves it seemed just because the GM didn't do anything in the trade deadline.
Wake up professionals

 

[p.l.f.]

Play the kids
I'd rather see them play at this point

 

[Canada4Gold]

Play the kids
I'd rather see them play at this point

I'd like to see them give Nolin a shot.

Other than that I'm not sure what play the kids argument there is. Gose probably, he should have been up all season. Hopefully him and Pillar have a platoon next year.

we don't really have any other mlb ready prospects. Norris maybe but 3 starts in AAA isn't usually enough. Pompey isn't ready either.

Goins? maybe he counts. On a fully healthy team with offense from most positions I'm willing to have him at 2nd, but when riddled with injuries or an offense lacking in a few places not sure you can plug another black hole into the offense.

most of the kids aren't ready yet. The pitching kids are mostly up here while the hitting kids are mostly at the lower levels or non-existent.

 

[Woodman19]

I'd like to see them give Nolin a shot.

Other than that I'm not sure what play the kids argument there is. Gose probably, he should have been up all season. Hopefully him and Pillar have a platoon next year.

we don't really have any other mlb ready prospects. Norris maybe but 3 starts in AAA isn't usually enough. Pompey isn't ready either.

Goins? maybe he counts. On a fully healthy team with offense from most positions I'm willing to have him at 2nd, but when riddled with injuries or an offense lacking in a few places not sure you can plug another black hole into the offense.

most of the kids aren't ready yet. The pitching kids are mostly up here while the hitting kids are mostly at the lower levels or non-existent.

Norris, Nolin, Pompey, Graveman, Jiminez and Tapera are probably the only guys you will see in September who have any upside to be here beyond this season who are in AAA.

Edit: That's actually quite a bit of talent with a tiny bit of upside currently at AAA, especially when you factor in guys like Gose and Pillar. We seem to finally be close to having a plethora of competent depth options.

 

[p.l.f.]

Sanchez and Nolin in the rotation
Gose Pilar Pompey Goins Jiminez
Give em a shot in September, it'll do them so good

 

[Gardiner Expressway]

AA's done pretty well with trades - if there's one person I'd trust to get maximum value out of dealing Bautista, it'd be him

Question being though is will AA look to rebuild the offense entirely now?

I'm all about keeping AA because I don't know that we'd get anyone considerably better, but I disagree that he's done well with trades.

Overpaid for Dickey, overpaid considerably for a 5th starter in Happ.

The Marlins trade was actually supposed to be about getting Josh Johnson and was only expanded afterwards and we all know how bad Johnson was for us. AA almost held up the trade in order to get Bonifacio - who he totally midjudged and was awful for us. And given all the Reyes errors and complacent play his albatross contract might be impossible to move if he keeps trending downwards.

I'm honestly not sure that AA's trade history is anything that would inspire much confidence. It's not like he's prone to giving up much - he was smart to hold out and keep Hutch/Stroman for us despite the pressure for a big move - but it seems like he systematically misjudges the guys he acquires.

 

[canucksfan]

looking at this slump or "callapse"
am not sure what to say really. I still blame it a lot on the players. Fine, I would have preferred AA do something, but seriously will people actually tell me getting guys like EE and Lind are not enough?
I am with AA on this one, players just felt sorry for themselves it seemed just because the GM didn't do anything in the trade deadline.
Wake up professionals

I agree

Don't forget Lawrie. He was came back on the 5th and then got injured.

Going into the deadline the Jays were going to get Lind, Lawrie and EE back.

Jays could have added a SP which would have required a decent prospect and some BP help. Those wouldn't have made much of a difference.

 

[calcal798]

Why does trading Bautista signal a complete rebuild and subsequently makes Melky's decision to bolt a surety? It's one player. Retool, compete next season with an injection of young talent with more experience in Stroman/Sanchez/Hutch and possibly Pompey if they continue to push him through the system. Melky seems more buddy buddy with Reyes than Bautista anyway.

I don't think it would. If you can do something similar to what the Rays did with Price (Smyly and Franklin) with Bautista for a couple assets that fill areas and one young player, similar value to Smyly, that would be the centerpiece I'd be all for it.

I'm not sure if AA would do it, but he could probably get three solid young pieces (likely a 2B/SS, OF and SP) if he wanted to ship out Bautista + Dickey this offseason to a team that wants to contend next year.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I don't think it would. If you can do something similar to what the Rays did with Price (Smyly and Franklin) with Bautista for a couple assets that fill areas and one young player, similar value to Smyly, that would be the centerpiece I'd be all for it.

I'm not sure if AA would do it, but he could probably get three solid young pieces (likely a 2B/SS, OF and SP) if he wanted to ship out Bautista + Dickey this offseason to a team that wants to contend next year.

If I'm dealing Bautista, I'm going all in on the rebuild. Deal JB, deal EE, get your comp pick for Melky and focus on building the lineup in time to contend for when Stroman, Sanchez, Hutch, and Norris are a little closer to sure things. I'd keep Reyes as a guy who can be a wiley leader on the field, and keep MB and Dickey to be veteran voices in the rotation for two or three years. I'd bet EE and JB bring back 4 or 5 top-50 type prospects or 3 or 4 near major league guys a la Smyly/Franklin.

 

[theaub]

I would think he has learned his bench lesson by now. Last year he had a similar problem and this year was much worse.

How do you exactly bring in legitimate hitters to play on your bench though?

The big problem with the Jays is every single key position player is pretty much a lock to miss 20+ games each year. When it clusters together, there's nothing left (and there's no team in the league that has any sort of depth to counter that).

 

[Suntouchable13]

WTF is this? You try to go for it for 2 years and then start ANOTHER rebuild?

 

[TootooTrain]

If I'm dealing Bautista, I'm going all in on the rebuild. Deal JB, deal EE, get your comp pick for Melky and focus on building the lineup in time to contend for when Stroman, Sanchez, Hutch, and Norris are a little closer to sure things. I'd keep Reyes as a guy who can be a wiley leader on the field, and keep MB and Dickey to be veteran voices in the rotation for two or three years. I'd bet EE and JB bring back 4 or 5 top-50 type prospects or 3 or 4 near major league guys a la Smyly/Franklin.

That could be as soon as the next 1-2 years. This strip everything to the grass roots rebuild opinion makes little sense considering the roster and prospects we currently have.

 

[Canada4Gold]

1, 2, 3 first inning for Norris with 2 groundouts and a K looking.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Pompey with a bunt single, good to see he knows how to use his speed

 

[Canada4Gold]

Gose with a single and 2 SB, sac fly and RBI double lately it`s 2-0 Buffalo. Love beating up on Boston, and that includes their best prospects.