Your faith in Murray?

[trentmccleary]

And yet we are still almost last in goals allowed this season too, despite significantly more talented goaltenders. Coaching, the defensive system, our zone coverage have been constant and recurring problems with this team. Even at our worst with Elliot as our starter, we were giving up regular breakaways and even 2 on 0s like we saw in the Nashville game were common occurrences.

Every year is a different beast depending on the players we had and stage of the career they were at. Elliott and Gerber played behind veteran defenses close to the peak of their careers. Anderson and Lehner are being hung out to dry behind a defense core that is too young and inexperienced. The vets they did have this season were way past their primes (Phillips, Corvo). Elliott and Gerber had it easy, they just sucked

Nonsense.

Paddock started with the team setting records for the best start in NHL history, then the team collapsed and the players seldom get fired.

The goaltending collapsed. It was under .900 for the last 67 games of the season.

Hartsburg was a poor choice to correct what was wrong with the team, a team that had a few prima donnas. He was just too nice a guy.

Hartsburg was the worst coach we've had, possibly the worst coach in the modern era. His junior level breakout strategy of constantly rimming the puck off of the boards killed the leagues best offense for no reason.

Out of the list of the coaches fired Clouston is the only who I feel didn't get a fair shake. He took us to the playoffs with a goaltending tandem of Glasscal/Elliott/Brodeur which is a miracle in itself. It's not his fault that the goaltending fell apart the following year. He may not have been the greatest communicator but that's normal for a young coach who only was in his 2nd full year on the job. I believe firing Clouston was a big mistake because everyone saw how the team played when Anderson stabilized the goaltending. No coach was going to get us into the playoffs with the goaltending we had that year. I remember when Greg Carvel threw Elliott under the bus when he got fired. How come Alfie doesn't get criticized for his leadership during the times we had the coach firings? He was part of the group of players who quit on three coaches in four seasons. I remember seeing him dog it after Spezza got hurt in Clouston's final season too. It's interesting that the team was in playoff contention until Spezza got hurt yet an Alfie led team only managed to win 1 game while Spezza was out. Goaltending was a big part of it but where was Alfie's leadership to help the team when Spezza was gone? Spezza is being thrown under the bus as if he's the main reason the team is struggling.

Agreed. Also think he got screwed over as a rookie coach dealing with Kovalev... a player who doesn't work hard enough to earn PP time, but is only effective with lots of it.

When Elliot was our starter. we allowed the 4th fewest shots per game (he pretty much split duties with year prior and we were 6th). The next year when the team all but stopped playing for Clouston, we dropped to 20th. While we had our defensive breakdowns, you're kidding yourself if you think it was anything like what we're having these days.

The team didn't stop playing for Clouston. Clouston's demise was built upon 3 losing streaks:
- 6 games to start the season where 3 entirely new D pairings were put together with no chemistry whatsoever (coaching issue of breaking up existing pairings and not using training camp to build chemistry). The solution ended up being putting Campoli back with Carker and replacing Lee with Hale. Team played well after that... until
- The incident that shall not be used as an excuse because it's tactless and insensitive. However, the team got blown out almost 10 games in a row after it. Not Clouston's fault and I doubt there was much he could have done.
- Spezza injury combined with maybe the worst 20+ games a goalie has ever played in an Ottawa Senators uniform (and you know that is saying something). Between the time that Spezza went down and Anderson was acquired (Spezza back by then)... 21 games were played, Karlsson was -25 over those 21 games. The team wasn't playing poorly (like they had the first 6 games of this season), they just couldn't score and their goalies couldn't stop a beachball.

Everyone who watched the games knew that start was unsustainable. Hot goaltending by Gerber covered up a lot of defensive lapses from the team, while relying heavily on the Pizza line to carry the load for the team. He also quickly alienated many of the team's other players by leaning so heavily on the Pizza line and when they would attempt to discuss it with him privately, he would dismiss their complaints then subsequently aired it out in the media. Once Emery returned and Gerber's hot streak was over, he further enabled the toxic environment with his "you win and you're in" policy which completely backfired. Assistant coaches who get promoted from within the organization tend not to do well.

He overplayed the top players (per ice time). They were playing at playoff levels.
But win and you're in didn't started when Emery returned. Emery had been back for almost 2 months. Win and you're in started a month+ after the putrid goaltending started and there wasn't much reason to start either one of them.

The problem with Hartsburg wasn't that he was a nice guy, or that there were primo donnas. His system was ill-suited for the new NHL, and as noted by many observers, our breakout strategy was pathetic and we became one of the easiest teams to defend against. His system was so terrible that nearly every single one of our players were having an off-year offensively.

Exactly. Halfway through Game 2 in Sweden, Pittsburgh was already blocking the boards at the blueline and our d-men were still trying to rim pucks off of the boards and out. Either all of our d-men became morons in the offseason or Hartsburg had the worst breakout strategy ever. Suspicions were confirmed when he was ****canned after 48 games of tanking the best offense in the league down to 29th and Clouston brought it back up over 3 goals a game to finish the season.

A large part of expectations are based upon the decisions, statements and actions coming from the organization. So when management has come out publicly and stated they're going for the cup within the next couple of years, and people see where the team is right now, they are absolutely correct in being upset because they know they're being played.

People are upset and expected much more because they expected scrappy team of last season with 0.941% goaltending to add 2011-12 Karlsson, Spezza and Michalek. Plus they expected the kids to get better.

While I think that was overly optimistic, I think people are being unduly negative about this team now. They aren't as good as the expectation above, but they aren;t as bad as they've played this season. The goaltending will rebound. The kids on defense will get better. And the forwards assembled are as deep and as talented as we've had in years. Left alone, this team should rebound substantially on this season's results.

I agree with a lot of this. One common theme during Clouston's last season was all the players who were playing through an injury (Alfie, Fisher, I believe Kovalev and I forget others) or recovering from one (Kuba). Then we also had the goaltending issue. Our team improved instantly the moment we traded away Fisher and Kovalev and acquired Anderson. Same coach, different results.

This year we have significant players coming back from significant injuries (Karlsson, Spezza, even Anderson to some extent), and at least one significant player who seems to be playing through an injury (Ryan). Compare this with last season where, yes, a lot of players got injured, but at least they didn't play through their injuries. We had a group of young, healthy, fast guys, i.e. maybe that's the definition of "pesky". Same coach, different results.

The goaltending change and a dominant return from Spezza changed Clouston's fortunes. Little to do with anything else.

"Pesky" is a lot easier to come by when your goaltending is virtually unbeatable. The 27th ranked offense wouldn't have been able to make the playoffs without the goaltending. This season, the youth and inexperience on defense really showed what a loss Gonchar was. I responded correctly a few posts ago about how the Sens of the early 2000's were younger than this team... however, that team had Redden, Phillips, Chara, Salo, Rachunek (who were all much more experienced at younger ages than our d-men are now).

As a comparison:
Redden at 23yo (just before he turned 24yo).
393 regular season games, 24 playoff games = 417 games

Cowen (23yo) + Wiercioch (23yo) + Gryba (25yo) + Ceci (20yo) + Borowiecki (24yo)
377 regular season, 22 playoff games = 399 games

This is why our defense sucks.
Heck, by 24yo:
Phillips = 340 combined GP
Chara = 291 combined GP
Rachunek = 266 combined GP

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Every year is a different beast depending on the players we had and stage of the career they were at. Elliott and Gerber played behind veteran defenses close to the peak of their careers. Anderson and Lehner are being hung out to dry behind a defense core that is too young and inexperienced. The vets they did have this season were way past their primes (Phillips, Corvo). Elliott and Gerber had it easy, they just sucked



The goaltending collapsed. It was under .900 for the last 67 games of the season.



Hartsburg was the worst coach we've had, possibly the worst coach in the modern era. His junior level breakout strategy of constantly rimming the puck off of the boards killed the leagues best offense for no reason.



Agreed. Also think he got screwed over as a rookie coach dealing with Kovalev... a player who doesn't work hard enough to earn PP time, but is only effective with lots of it.



The team didn't stop playing for Clouston. Clouston's demise was built upon 3 losing streaks:
- 6 games to start the season where 3 entirely new D pairings were put together with no chemistry whatsoever (coaching issue of breaking up existing pairings and not using training camp to build chemistry). The solution ended up being putting Campoli back with Carker and replacing Lee with Hale. Team played well after that... until
- The incident that shall not be used as an excuse because it's tactless and insensitive. However, the team got blown out almost 10 games in a row after it. Not Clouston's fault and I doubt there was much he could have done.
- Spezza injury combined with maybe the worst 20+ games a goalie has ever played in an Ottawa Senators uniform (and you know that is saying something). Between the time that Spezza went down and Anderson was acquired (Spezza back by then)... 21 games were played, Karlsson was -25 over those 21 games. The team wasn't playing poorly (like they had the first 6 games of this season), they just couldn't score and their goalies couldn't stop a beachball.



He overplayed the top players (per ice time). They were playing at playoff levels.
But win and you're in didn't started when Emery returned. Emery had been back for almost 2 months. Win and you're in started a month+ after the putrid goaltending started and there wasn't much reason to start either one of them.



Exactly. Halfway through Game 2 in Sweden, Pittsburgh was already blocking the boards at the blueline and our d-men were still trying to rim pucks off of the boards and out. Either all of our d-men became morons in the offseason or Hartsburg had the worst breakout strategy ever. Suspicions were confirmed when he was ****canned after 48 games of tanking the best offense in the league down to 29th and Clouston brought it back up over 3 goals a game to finish the season.



People are upset and expected much more because they expected scrappy team of last season with 0.941% goaltending to add 2011-12 Karlsson, Spezza and Michalek. Plus they expected the kids to get better.

While I think that was overly optimistic, I think people are being unduly negative about this team now. They aren't as good as the expectation above, but they aren;t as bad as they've played this season. The goaltending will rebound. The kids on defense will get better. And the forwards assembled are as deep and as talented as we've had in years. Left alone, this team should rebound substantially on this season's results.



The goaltending change and a dominant return from Spezza changed Clouston's fortunes. Little to do with anything else.

"Pesky" is a lot easier to come by when your goaltending is virtually unbeatable. The 27th ranked offense wouldn't have been able to make the playoffs without the goaltending. This season, the youth and inexperience on defense really showed what a loss Gonchar was. I responded correctly a few posts ago about how the Sens of the early 2000's were younger than this team... however, that team had Redden, Phillips, Chara, Salo, Rachunek (who were all much more experienced at younger ages than our d-men are now).

As a comparison:
Redden at 23yo (just before he turned 24yo).
393 regular season games, 24 playoff games = 417 games

Cowen (23yo) + Wiercioch (23yo) + Gryba (25yo) + Ceci (20yo) + Borowiecki (24yo)
377 regular season, 22 playoff games = 399 games

This is why our defense sucks.
Heck, by 24yo:
Phillips = 340 combined GP
Chara = 291 combined GP
Rachunek = 266 combined GP

This really puts things into perspective. That blueline is incredibly raw.

 

[Benjamin]

Conacher with 2 goals, 1 assist.

 

[coladin]

Conacher with 2 goals, 1 assist.

So?? What does that prove?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Every year is a different beast depending on the players we had and stage of the career they were at. Elliott and Gerber played behind veteran defenses close to the peak of their careers. Anderson and Lehner are being hung out to dry behind a defense core that is too young and inexperienced. The vets they did have this season were way past their primes (Phillips, Corvo). Elliott and Gerber had it easy, they just sucked



The goaltending collapsed. It was under .900 for the last 67 games of the season.



Hartsburg was the worst coach we've had, possibly the worst coach in the modern era. His junior level breakout strategy of constantly rimming the puck off of the boards killed the leagues best offense for no reason.



Agreed. Also think he got screwed over as a rookie coach dealing with Kovalev... a player who doesn't work hard enough to earn PP time, but is only effective with lots of it.



The team didn't stop playing for Clouston. Clouston's demise was built upon 3 losing streaks:
- 6 games to start the season where 3 entirely new D pairings were put together with no chemistry whatsoever (coaching issue of breaking up existing pairings and not using training camp to build chemistry). The solution ended up being putting Campoli back with Carker and replacing Lee with Hale. Team played well after that... until
- The incident that shall not be used as an excuse because it's tactless and insensitive. However, the team got blown out almost 10 games in a row after it. Not Clouston's fault and I doubt there was much he could have done.
- Spezza injury combined with maybe the worst 20+ games a goalie has ever played in an Ottawa Senators uniform (and you know that is saying something). Between the time that Spezza went down and Anderson was acquired (Spezza back by then)... 21 games were played, Karlsson was -25 over those 21 games. The team wasn't playing poorly (like they had the first 6 games of this season), they just couldn't score and their goalies couldn't stop a beachball.



He overplayed the top players (per ice time). They were playing at playoff levels.
But win and you're in didn't started when Emery returned. Emery had been back for almost 2 months. Win and you're in started a month+ after the putrid goaltending started and there wasn't much reason to start either one of them.



Exactly. Halfway through Game 2 in Sweden, Pittsburgh was already blocking the boards at the blueline and our d-men were still trying to rim pucks off of the boards and out. Either all of our d-men became morons in the offseason or Hartsburg had the worst breakout strategy ever. Suspicions were confirmed when he was ****canned after 48 games of tanking the best offense in the league down to 29th and Clouston brought it back up over 3 goals a game to finish the season.



People are upset and expected much more because they expected scrappy team of last season with 0.941% goaltending to add 2011-12 Karlsson, Spezza and Michalek. Plus they expected the kids to get better.

While I think that was overly optimistic, I think people are being unduly negative about this team now. They aren't as good as the expectation above, but they aren;t as bad as they've played this season. The goaltending will rebound. The kids on defense will get better. And the forwards assembled are as deep and as talented as we've had in years. Left alone, this team should rebound substantially on this season's results.



The goaltending change and a dominant return from Spezza changed Clouston's fortunes. Little to do with anything else.

"Pesky" is a lot easier to come by when your goaltending is virtually unbeatable. The 27th ranked offense wouldn't have been able to make the playoffs without the goaltending. This season, the youth and inexperience on defense really showed what a loss Gonchar was. I responded correctly a few posts ago about how the Sens of the early 2000's were younger than this team... however, that team had Redden, Phillips, Chara, Salo, Rachunek (who were all much more experienced at younger ages than our d-men are now).

As a comparison:
Redden at 23yo (just before he turned 24yo).
393 regular season games, 24 playoff games = 417 games

Cowen (23yo) + Wiercioch (23yo) + Gryba (25yo) + Ceci (20yo) + Borowiecki (24yo)
377 regular season, 22 playoff games = 399 games

This is why our defense sucks.
Heck, by 24yo:
Phillips = 340 combined GP
Chara = 291 combined GP
Rachunek = 266 combined GP

I always take the time to read your posts. Nicely put, and I agree with your assessment of the current team completely.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

So?? What does that prove?

IF you surround him with skill and talent he'll thrive. There are too many Greenings on the team and not enough higher skill guys. Also, MacLean may well have mismanaged Conacher as he has the whole team so far.