Olympics: Wouldn't it be cool to see other countries play in Sochi?

[Xokkeu]

It'd be nice to see 16 teams instead of 12. Then we could really see the best countries in the world play and all have representation. Denmark, Belarus, Germany and France/Kazakhstan should all be there.

We already see the best countries in the world play. If we want to watch the mediocre also rans get a chance, then we have the World Championships. If anything I compress the tournament to eight teams, have them play two four team groups for seeding and then start the knockouts.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

You are way too optimistic/naive about the difference in quality between different national teams.

The teams at the very bottom of the rankings are basically still learning to play ice hockey. They don't even have a full lineup.

Teams ranked 35th and lower would see scores like 0:40, 0:50 or more against the top teams.

Even teams like Lithuania (#26) or Spain (#30) would have a really hard time trying to not lose by more than a 10 goal margin to 2nd tier national teams (Germany, Norway, Latvia, etc.).

Teams ranked 25th and above are semi-decent and could try to hold a respectable score against teams outside of the big 8, but would get absolutely pummeled by everyone else.

There's just literally zero potential for a major surprise. There are about 18-20 teams that can in theory try to qualify.

In Euro/World Cup qualification they have a two-round robin, so the chances of a possible major upset are actually reduced, when compared to the current system.

UPD: Also, all the weaker teams actually have a better team chemistry than teams from the Big 8. Everyone knows each other, everyone has played with each other at the junior level, etc. There's no depth and most players represent the national team on a regular basis with little to no changes every year.

I am fully aware of the differences between a country like Hong Kong and Russia. I follow oddball international hockey, so I know the disparity. But really is this any different than when England plays the Faroe Islands in qualifying for the World Cup?

I guess what I was getting at is there should be no automatic entries to the Olympics. It should be like basketball is, baseball was etc. that everyone has to qualify to get in. I believe basketball gives an exemption to the winner of the previous Worlds (i.e. the US as a rule), but otherwise everyone has to qualify.

I guess unlike Europe with the Euro Hockey Tour, the Euro Hockey Challenge, the Euro Ice Hockey Challenge etc., North America doesn't get to see their national senior teams play many games. I thought a Canada vs. US best vs. best best of 7 qualifier to the Olympics, would be something fun to see. As it stands now, Canada's senior team plays at the Worlds and Spengler Cup, which as a fan of international hockey is not enough. So this is what I was going for. Plus the later stages in Europe could see a country like say Kazakhstan get in instead of Slovakia or something of that nature.

 

[jekoh]

It'd be nice to see 16 teams instead of 12. Then we could really see the best countries in the world play and all have representation. Denmark, Belarus, Germany and France/Kazakhstan should all be there.

Note the even with 16 teams Denmark would not have qualified for Sochi. France would also have missed out with Italy qualifying instead on goal difference. Kazakhstan, Belarus, Germany and Italy were the 4 teams with the best record not to qualify.

 

[Tomas W]

The problem with getting a supertalanted UK hockey team is to get enough super-talanted hockey players with a UK passport.

 

[rj]

South Korea does not need to qualify in 2018, they are hosts.

Unless they choose to qualify based on performance like Canada/Russia. But I kind of doubt that, considering they wouldn't be nearly as likely to qualify.

that said, I think last year's qualification tournament was one of the best I can remember which shows that teams, at least outside of the big 7 (8?) are becoming more competitive with each other. Slovenia, Denmark, and Belarus all had a shot at winning their group. Ukraine wasn't bad though they were definitely the odd team out. Same for Latvia, Kazakhstan, and France, with Great Britain not being that bad either. Germany, Austria, and Italy all could have easily won their group though the Netherlands were definitely out of their league.

The qualification tournament definitely lends credence to the idea of expanding the Olympics to 16 teams.

That's an IOC decision, not an IIHF decision.

The IOC, in part demonstrated by the 2004 Summer Games hosts now being in bankruptcy and the lackluster bidding for the 2020 Summer Games due to how much hosting a Games costs now, have determined they have reached their limit on number of athletes competing. If you add 4 Olympic men's hockey teams, that means you need to remove 100 athletes from another sport (and if you add 4 men's, you're going to have to add a couple women's teams for gender equality).

 

[rj]

we can only hope South Korea REALLY wants to participate in 2018, so they pump tons of cash into the developmental system and whatnot. Japan gets jealous(I assume they're international rivals) and does the same. i seriously doubt they displace any of the top 10 teams, but hey if they become at least somewhat competitive, that'd be great.

Don't think there's much hope for China. even in comparison to Japan and SK they're hopelessly bad. Their team in the AIHL is god awful.

Ice hockey at the 2011 Asian Winter Games, Top Division:

Kazakhstan 4-0 62:3 +59
Japan 3-1 32:6 +26
South Korea 2-2 35:16 +19
China 1-3 13:33 -20
Chinese Taipei 0-4 1:85 -84

The South Korean women were 5th behind Kazakhstan, Japan, China, and North Korea.

 

[rj]

speaking of the Asian Winter Games in 2011, this has to be an immediate candidate of spot fixing

they had a 2nd division to stop lopsided scores, and Kyrgyzstan won the tournament at 6-0, and Bahrain finished last at 0-6, here's their respective scores from Wikipedia:

vs. Thailand:

Kyrgyzstan 15, Thailand 4
Thailand 29, Bahrain 0

vs. Malaysia:

Kyrgyzstan 23, Malaysia 2
Malaysia 25, Bahrain 0

vs. United Arab Emirates:

Kyrgyzstan 14, UAE 0
UAE 25, Bahrain 0

vs. Mongolia:

Kyrgyzstan 13, Mongolia 3
Mongolia 21, Bahrain 1

vs. Kuwait:

Kyrgyzstan 15, Kuwait 4
Kuwait 23, Bahrain 0

when the two played each other, the score was: Kyrgyzstan 15, Bahrain 10

 

[hockeydude1]

Got a list from Wikipedia of some countries that rarely have made the Olympics in the past. Interesting stuff. I bolded their best finish.

Italy:

1936 - Finished tied in 9th place
1948 - Finished in 8th place
1956 - Finished in 7th place
1964 - Finished in 15th place
1984 - Finished in 9th place
1992 - Finished in 12th place
1994 - Finished in 9th place
1998 - Finished in 12th place
2006 - Finished in 11th place

-Was pretty consistent at attending the Olympics in the 90's and of course in Torino.

Japan:

1936 - Finished in 9th place (tied)
1960 - Finished in 8th place
1964 - Finished in 11th place
1968 - Finished in 10th place
1972 - Finished in 9th place
1976 - Finished in 9th place
1980 - Finished in 12th place
1998 - Finished in 13th place

-Also consistent at attending Olympics, but never had much success.

France:

1920 – Finished in 5th place
1924 – Finished tied for 5th place
1928 – Finished in 6th place
1936 – Finished tied in 9th place
1968 – Finished in 14th place
1988 – Finished in 11th place
1992 – Finished in 8th place
1994 – Finished in 10th place
1998 – Finished in 11th place
2002 – Finished in 14th place

-Had a consistent team going for a while.

Germany:

1928 – Finished in 9th place
1932 – Won bronze medal
1936 – Finished tied in 5th place
1952 – Finished in 8th place
1956 – Finished in 6th place (United Team of Germany)
1960 – Finished in 6th place (United Team of Germany)
1964 – Finished in 7th place (United Team of Germany)
1968 – Finished in 7th place
1972 – Finished in 7th place
1976 – Won bronze medal
1980 – Finished in 10th place
1984 – Finished in 5th place
1988 – Finished in 5th place
1992 – Finished in 6th place
1994 – Finished in 7th place
1998 – Finished in 9th place
2002 – Finished in 8th place
2006 – Finished in 10th place
2010 – Finished in 11th place

-Won bronze several times in their career.

Great Britain:

1924 - Won bronze medal
1928 - 4th place
1936 - Won gold medal
1948 - 5th place

In 4 appearances, they have 2 medals, including a Gold. Averaging 3.25 finish.

Kazakhstan:

1998 – Finished in 8th place
2006 – Finished in 9th place

-Interesting they've been in a couple. They also didn't qualify about 4/5 times though.

Also, if I missed any countries let me know and I'll add them in. Just got a few off the top of my head.

 

[jekoh]

Also, if I missed any countries let me know and I'll add them in. Just got a few off the top of my head.

Belarus, Poland, Ukraine...

 

[boris4c]

Don't forget Yugoslavia, which is basically the modern day Slovenia. A few appearances and quite a few nice results especially in the late 1960s.

 

[Siamese Dream]

The problem with getting a supertalanted UK hockey team is to get enough super-talanted hockey players with a UK passport.

And why would a super-talented hockey player come to the UK to play for 2 years? That's what they would have to do, in order to be eligible.

 

[hockeydude1]

Belarus, Poland, Ukraine...

Ah yes. I'll add those in later when I get back to my computer. I knew I was forgetting a couple.