Worst players with 1000+ points

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Chileiceman, Sep 4, 2005.

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  1. Chileiceman

    Chileiceman Registered User

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    We all know that Bobby Orr was the best player to have never reached 1000 points.
    But who is the worst player to have accomplished that feat. Being the worst out of that list doesn't mean that player was necessarily bad just not as good as the other ones.
    1 Wayne Gretzky 2857
    2 Mark Messier 1887
    3 Gordie Howe 1850
    4 Ron Francis 1798
    5 Marcel Dionne 1771
    6 Steve Yzerman 1721
    7 Mario Lemieux 1701
    8 Phil Esposito 1590
    9 Ray Bourque 1579
    10 Paul Coffey 1531
    11 Stan Mikita 1467
    12 Bryan Trottier 1425
    13 Adam Oates 1420
    14 Doug Gilmour 1414
    15 Dale Hawerchuk 1409
    16 Joe Sakic 1402
    17 Jari Kurri 1398
    18 Brett Hull 1390
    19 Luc Robitaille 1370
    20 Johnny Bucyk 1369
    21 Guy Lafleur 1353
    22 Denis Savard 1338
    23 Mike Gartner 1335
    24 Gilbert Perreault 1326
    25 Dave Andreychuk 1320
    26 Jaromir Jagr 1309
    27 Alex Delvecchio 1281
    28 Al MacInnis 1274
    28 Pierre Turgeon 1274
    30 Jean Ratelle 1267
    31 Peter Stastny 1239
    32 Phil Housley 1232
    33 Norm Ullman 1229
    34 Jean Beliveau 1219
    35 Larry Murphy 1216
    36 Bobby Clarke 1210
    37 Bernie Nicholls 1209
    38 Vincent Damphousse 1205
    39 Mark Recchi 1201
    40 Dino Ciccarelli 1200
    41 Bobby Hull 1170
    42 Michel Goulet 1152
    43 Brendan Shanahan 1151
    44 Bernie Federko 1130
    45 Mike Bossy 1126
    46 Darryl Sittler 1121
    47 Jeremy Roenick 1120
    48 Mike Modano 1106
    49 Frank Mahovlich 1103
    50 Glenn Anderson 1099
    51 Mats Sundin 1089
    52 Theoren Fleury 1088
    53 Dave Taylor 1069
    54 Pat Verbeek 1063
    54 Joe Mullen 1063
    56 Joe Nieuwendyk 1062
    57 Denis Potvin 1052
    58 Henri Richard 1046
    59 Bobby Smith 1036
    60 Brian Bellows 1022
    61 Rod Gilbert 1021
    62 Dale Hunter 1020
    63 Sergei Fedorov 1019
    64 Pat LaFontaine 1013
    65 Steve Larmer 1012
    66 Alexander Mogilny 1007
    67 Lanny McDonald 1006
    68 Brian Propp 1004
    Discuss
     
  2. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    1. Pat Verbeek
    2. Dino Ciccarelli
    3. Dave Andreychuk
    4. Bernie Nicholls
    5. Joe Nieuwendyk

    The thought of any of these guys in the Hall of Fame is ridiculous.
     
  3. Verbeek

    Verbeek Human see, human do.

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    I think this thread is rediculous. Not all of those guys should automatically get in the HOF because of the numbers... thats a good question. But to answer the question at hand, they played for a while and got to 1000+, how do any of them not deserve atleast credit for doing it? Dumb question.
     
  4. cassius

    cassius Registered User

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    Dino Ciccarelli is definitely up there
     
  5. Strong Island

    Strong Island Registered User

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    It's not a dumb question at all really. The original poster is just asking for opinions on who, of the elite 1000 point club, are the players who for some reason or another aren't looked upon as being "1000 pt quality" or "HOF material". He's not asking who deserves more credit or not, he's asking who are the worst players of the bunch. Since I'm too young to have seen most of these players in their respective primes, I will refrain.
     
  6. Verbeek

    Verbeek Human see, human do.

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    I'm just stating that I think the question is worded poorly. You could argue that alot of these guys wouldn't have made 1000+ point if it wern't for their longevity.. but they had to be consistant in putting up numbers each year.. so I don't know if id call them bad players.
     
  7. Vikke

    Vikke ViktorAllvin twitter

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    I thought Bernie Nicholls was a very good scorer? Haven't read much about him, just his stats and stuff. Enlighten me!
     
  8. wedge

    wedge Registered User

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    Brian Propp, Brian Bellows, Pat Verbeek, Dale Hunter.

    good players, but not great.
     
  9. Strong Island

    Strong Island Registered User

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    I think it was worded nicely actually. Its the wording in your posts which have me confused.
     
  10. flambers

    flambers Registered User

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    I personally hate this topic any player who gets 1000 points deserves to get respect.
     
  11. mazmin

    mazmin Go! Jets! Go!

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    Hunter, Verbeek, Anderson, Dino...
     
  12. Flash Walken

    Flash Walken Registered User

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    Two observations:

    1) I had no idea Yzerman was that high in point totals. As I'm only 20, I missed out on just about all of his prolific scoring years, so I've only been able to be impressed by stories of his scoring ability. Seeing these numbers though, and hearing the old story about scotty sitting him down and telling him essentially that he was no longer 'the scorer' on the team, but now had more of a checker role, his points statistic really impresses me. He must be one of the most complete players recent hockey history, no?

    2) I totally disagree with reckonings post having Joe Nieuwendyk on the list. 3 cups on 3 different teams, a conn smythe, a calder, and I believe held(tie) the old record of 6 game winning goals in one playoff season? Add to 1000 points and I'd say that's pretty good.
     
  13. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    Brian Bellows for sure
     
  14. Verbeek

    Verbeek Human see, human do.

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    I'm sorry to have confused you with simple words. :sarcasm:

    I see a "Worst players to score 500 goals" thread in your future. =)
     
  15. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    First of all, Joe Nieuwendyk is a Hall-of-Famer. He has three Cup rings, and played a pivotal role in all three of those wins. He has been the embodiment of a clutch players for 15 years. He carried the Leafs offence on his back in the 2004 playoffs. He's been a great goal scorer for pretty much his entire career.

    Second, I have a hard time begrudging any player's place on this list. You can talk about longevity, sticking around for a long time, etc., but they're on this list because they were top offensive producers for an extended period of time.

    However, I will say this: Turgeon will be the new standard for point-producers not in the Hall. He has a good chance of finishing his career in the top 25 scorers ever, and an outside shot at the top 20. But he will be remembered as a soft, one-dimensional player who struggled with consistency.
     
  16. Hedberg

    Hedberg MLD Glue Guy

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    Brian Bellows
     
  17. Hyped

    Hyped Registered User

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    Brian Propp? He was one of the most underrated players of his day. The guy played excellent two-way hockey and scored 35 goals a year. He was physical and extremely intelligent. And he primarily did it all with Tim Kerr as his centerman. Nothing against Kerr, who I like as a player, but he wasn't exactly Gretzky when it came to dishing the puck...
     
  18. USF Shark

    USF Shark Zôion politikòn

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    Good list, I don't have too much of a beef with the positions, but just a thought, shouldn't the defensemen who scored over a thousand points be rated higher up because let's face it....it's pretty freaking hard to score a thousand points when you're a defenseman (not that it's easy in general...)
     
  19. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    We haven't been watching the same sport then. They both were incredible and have accomplished a lot, even when it matters the most, in the playoffs.

    I personally believe these guys were a notch below HHOF material.

    But I also believe they are worth recognizing... as are many who had other limited roles OTHER than scoring.
     
  20. interminded

    interminded Registered User

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    Absolutely true.
    Not to offend anybody, but there are a lot of pointless, almost stupid threads the last couple of weeks.
    Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we´re all asking different things because we have different interests.
    But somehow, all this waiting for the new season gets many people to post ridiculous posts, like the top-50 goaltenders with brown hair, the top-30 worst leftwingers that should have had 5 consecutive 60-points season but haven´t and so on..

    Again, post whatever you want to post, but don´t be suprised when some people do have a different opinion. That´s what this board is all about, isn´t it ?

    About this one:
    I really really believe that every soul that managed to accomplish a number like 1000 points has earned it.
    And that not all of them have the godgiven talent that Gretzky had, seems very very obvious.
    So why ask ?
    Just to get a thousand different opinions ?

    Let me state this again: I´m not trying to offend anyone, but some threads are really just plain pointless.
     
  21. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Unlike many on this thread who say this is pointless, there is a point to it. Some of the players that have achieved 1000 points, were able to do so because they played during the highest scoring era of NHL hockey - the 80s. Many on the list played during a more defensive time and their 1000 points are "worth" more than others. As well, there are MANY players that did not play during the 80s with the high offensive style and 80 game seasons, that do belong on any top scorers list.

    When you adjust for era and take into account rule changes etc. this should be the top 68 scorers of all time:

    1 Wayne Gretzky
    2 Gordie Howe
    3 Mario Lemieux
    4 Phil Esposito
    5 Stan Mikita
    6 Maurice Richard
    7 Bobby Hull
    8 Cy Denneny
    9 Jaromir Jagr
    10 Jean Beliveau
    11 Andy Bathgate
    12 Bobby Orr
    Marcel Dionne
    14 Howie Morenz
    15 Ted Lindsay
    16 Guy Lafleur
    17 Babe Dye
    18 Bill Cowley
    19 Mike Bossy
    Joe Sakic
    21 Doug Bentley
    22 Max Bentley
    23 Bill Cook
    24 Charlie Conacher
    25 Newsy Lalonde
    Bernie Geoffrion
    27 Frank Boucher
    28 Joe Malone
    Elmer Lach
    30 Peter Stastny
    31 Harvey Jackson
    Sweeney Schriner
    33 Nels Stewart
    Aurel Joliat
    Peter Forsberg
    36 Toe Blake
    37 Marty Barry
    Syl Apps, Sr.
    Bryan Trottier
    Teemu Selanne
    41 Norm Ullman
    Paul Coffey
    43 Sid Abel
    Bobby Clarke
    Jari Kurri
    46 Markus Naslund
    Mark Messier
    48 Jean Ratelle
    Steve Yzerman
    Adam Oates
    51 Paul Kariya
    Gordie Drillon
    53 Milt Schmidt
    Joe Primeau
    Dickie Moore
    Lynn Patrick
    57 Frank Mahovlich
    58 Frank Nighbor
    Denis Savard
    Pavel Bure
    Bryan Hextall
    62 Brett Hull
    Billy Boucher
    64 Ace Bailey
    Henri Richard
    Ken Hodge
    67 Gilbert Perreault
    68 Clint Smith
     
  22. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    Ciccarelli - A power-play specialist who ranks high here because he scored a lot of goals in a high-scoring era but was never close to being one of the best goal scorers in the game. Despite playing his prime years in the league`s weakest division, he was only a top 10 goal scorer twice in his entire career, a mark bettered or equalled by players like Hodge, Redmond, Maruk, Vaive, Bullard, Richer, Carson, and Sheppard - guys who likely never received a single vote for the Hall.
    It would be something if he excelled in other areas as well but he didn`t. Was never much of a playmaker, was a liability defensively and I must have missed his great playoff play. Other than his first year, his playoff resume is pretty mediocre. In fact, after Detroit didn`t win as expected in `96, Bowman singled him out as one of the guys he had to get rid of in order for the Wings to win a Cup. He did, and they did.

    Nieuwendyk - A very good player, far better than Ciccarelli, but IMO not quite up to Hall standards. The major argument people have in his favour is that he hit 500 goals and won 3 Cups with 3 different teams. Well due to expansion diluting the quality and inflated scoring in the 80s and early 90s, the 500 mark lost any
    signifance it used to have (hello Pat Verbeek). His three Cups: the Calgary team in `89 was a powerhouse, he was nowhere near the top of the team in playoff scoring and didn`t contribute much defensively, he played well with Dallas in `99 but Belfour or Modano were far more deserving of the Conn Smythe, with New Jersey in `03 he was injured and didn`t even play in the Final. What about the rest of his career? If you consider the 3 cups, you also have to consider the 10 years he lost in the 1st round.
    Bottom line: there`s a few players in the Hall who Nieuwendyk was better than, but there`s far more players not in the Hall who were better than him.

    Before anybody jumps over me with "How dare you criticize anything about a 1000 point scorer" the first message in this thread acknowledged that all these players were great but who would rank near the bottom of that list. If anybody`s upset that I put Ciccarelli in the bottom five, then what five players from that list would you rank below him?

    These scoring lists are nothing more than trivia if you`re not going to examine the different variables from each players eras and the other aspects of their game. I mean, it would be pretty stupid for somebody to say Luc Robitaille was better than Maurice Richard because of more career goals, without looking at the entire picture.
     
  23. Bring Back Bucky

    Bring Back Bucky Registered User

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    Nicholls is the worst of that bunch for me. Not a bad player, but certainly not great, never really accomplished anything spectacular other than that one special season..
     
  24. wilka91*

    wilka91* Registered User

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    vebreek, hunter and howe
     
  25. Chileiceman

    Chileiceman Registered User

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    :eek:
     
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