Prospect Info: World Junior Hockey Championship 2018

[Claypool]

I'm thinking a Krug type of guy
And that's nice. But it has its limitations, too.
Do you take that top 5 overall?
Eh, I don't think so.

Eh, his skillset is clearly there. I'd take him top five and hope he can develop against pro players. I doubt he'll be NHL-ready by next season. Likely needs another year or two more.

 

[Frk It]

Well, based on this last game, Mittelstadt is the next Wayne Gretzky.

Let's see how good Hughes looks against competition.
Against big forwards behind his own goal.

Guessing you didn’t watch the WJC last year? Hughes has been USA’s best player most times he has put the jersey on, including in their biggest games.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Well, based on this last game, Mittelstadt is the next Wayne Gretzky.

Let's see how good Hughes looks against competition.
Against big forwards behind his own goal.

It sort of sounds like you're under the impression that Hughes is an unknown quantity and we're still figuring out what kind of a player he is. That's very much untrue. Hughes has been front and center for years, he's been at all the tournaments for his age group (and older) for years now. He's been playing against big forwards for a while now. He played against them with the NTDP, and now he's doing that at Michigan.

Also, Hughes is a pretty stocky guy. He's one of those guys who has a low center of gravity, and it's hard to knock him off the puck. His lack of reach might give him problems against taller opponents, but it's worth mentioning that they're gonna have to catch him first. Defensively, he's never going to be a stalwart, but I haven't seen him shy away from contact. And if other small defensemen are doing fine (they are), I don't have any special worry about Hughes' height. You just do what every other team does: you find them a bigger partner whose strengths match up with the smaller guy's weaknesses. And considering last draft was chock full of guys 6'2 and taller, it might not be a big deal.

 

[Redder Winger]

Hughes is not stocky.
He's very slight. He's tiny.
Generously he's 5'10, 170-175 pounds.

I look at a guy like Krug. Valuable as he is offensively, he's also easy to beat in the defensive zone.
He's got the worst +/- on his team despite taking nearly twice as many O-zone starts as D-zone starts.

So I guess I wonder what everyone is saying about Hughes.

He's the best small defenseman in modern hockey history?

Or is he in that Krug mold?
Spurgeon mold?

I guess I want to see the NHL version of Hughes and consider what that's worth to a team before I throw a potential top 5 pick that way.

 

[Redder Winger]

Guessing you didn’t watch the WJC last year? Hughes has been USA’s best player most times he has put the jersey on, including in their biggest games.

Hughes wasn't in the WJC last year. Maybe U18s. But not in the WJC20s.

Statements like "USA's best player most times he has put the jersey on" are hyperbole.

I'm not opposed to taking a small defenseman. I wanted us to draft David Farrance last year in round 2/3.
But there's a limit to how high in the draft I'm going to go for one of those guys.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Hughes is not stocky.
He's very slight. He's tiny.
Generously he's 5'10, 170-175 pounds.

I look at a guy like Krug. Valuable as he is offensively, he's also easy to beat in the defensive zone.
He's got the worst +/- on his team despite taking nearly twice as many O-zone starts as D-zone starts.

So I guess I wonder what everyone is saying about Hughes.

He's the best small defenseman in modern hockey history?

Or is he in that Krug mold?
Spurgeon mold?

I guess I want to see the NHL version of Hughes and consider what that's worth to a team before I throw a potential top 5 pick that way.

I wasn't commenting on his current physical stature. I'm talking about his body structure. He's not a slender kid like a Pettersson.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Hughes wasn't in the WJC last year. Maybe U18s. But not in the WJC20s.

Statements like "USA's best player most times he has put the jersey on" are hyperbole.

How do you know that? If this thread is to be considered, you don't know much about him. He may well have been team USA's best player and you just didn't know that.

 

[Redder Winger]

I wasn't commenting on his current physical stature. I'm talking about his body structure. He's not a slender kid like a Pettersson.

Fair enough.
He looks tiny in the pictures I've seen.

So who's your NHL comparison.

Who is the sub 5'10 NHL defenseman that makes you think Quinn Hughes is worth a top 5 pick?

Or is Quinn Hughes the guy so rare that the NHL has never seen one like him before?


Two years ago everyone was talking about Joe Hicketts being so great, and how the league had changed and how small defensemen were the new thing in hockey.

Well, Hicketts is struggling mightily in the AHL these days.

I don't care how great you skate. The NHL is filled with fast, strong and big men. They have coaches who pour over video and gameplan to tear you up.

Undersized defensemen have a lot to overcome. They can work in the NHL.
But can they star?
How small is too small?

Is a 5'10 defenseman a good use of a top 10 pick?

Some of the most productive 5'11 and shorter defensemen:
Barrie - Third round pick
Gostisbehere - third round pick.
Butcher - 2nd round pick.
Krug - Undrafted


Since 2004 -
NHL defensemen under 6'0 drafted in the top 10.
1. Cale Makar - Unproven.


Since 2004 - sub 6'0 drafted in round 1
1. Ryan Ellis - 11th overall
2. Ryan Murphy - 11th overall
3. Anthony DeAngelo - 19th overall (22 years old in the AHL)
4. Erik Brannstrom, 15th overall in 2017
5. Cale Makar, 4th overall in 2017

So Ellis is the one guy who's made it since 04. Murphy sort of has. He's played 160 games, but never more than 48 in a season.
GMs have avoided sub 6'0 defenders in the first round.

Why?

Watching Ellis last year, he was fantastic in the playoffs. At the same time, he was defensively almost useless at times.

I'd love to have a Ryan Ellis on the Red Wings.
But Ryan Ellis is a Nick Lidstrom. He's not a Chris Pronger. Or an OEL.
Or a Doughty. Or a Weber.

Do you see Quinn Hughes as a defenseman who excels in every situation? Your leader when you need a goal? When you're trying to prevent a goal?

Or do you see him as a puck mover who helps the PP, but you have to keep him sheltered?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Fair enough.
He looks tiny in the pictures I've seen.

So who's your NHL comparison.

Who is the sub 5'10 NHL defenseman that makes you think Quinn Hughes is worth a top 5 pick?

Or is Quinn Hughes the guy so rare that the NHL has never seen one like him before?

Honestly, Quinn Hughes reminds me of the guy Ryan Murphy thought he was. He would go round and round the O-zone around the outside, looking for a play, but he could never find it. Hughes is a far, far better playmaker, which makes a ton of difference in that style of game.

 

[Redder Winger]

How do you know that? If this thread is to be considered, you don't know much about him. He may well have been team USA's best player and you just didn't know that.

Because there's nobody here who's watched all the games he's suited up in a USA jersey.
It's just silly rhetoric.

 

[Claypool]

It's just silly rhetoric.

Right, and please tell us why anyone should care about your opinion of Hughes? He's going to be a top 5 pick, so tell us why professional scouting departments have it all wrong.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Both Lindstrom and Kotkansalo are longshots to be NHLers, IMO.
Seems crazy to say that so soon after a draft. But never have I beeb so down on 2nd and 3rd round picks this soon after a draft.

Need to see more of both but Lindstrom especially doesn't look like a longshot to me. But I don't know that 2nd/3rd round prospects typically impress much at the WJC in their d+1 year.

 

[VictorLustig]

Fair enough.
He looks tiny in the pictures I've seen.

So who's your NHL comparison.

Who is the sub 5'10 NHL defenseman that makes you think Quinn Hughes is worth a top 5 pick?

Or is Quinn Hughes the guy so rare that the NHL has never seen one like him before?


Two years ago everyone was talking about Joe Hicketts being so great, and how the league had changed and how small defensemen were the new thing in hockey.

Well, Hicketts is struggling mightily in the AHL these days.

I don't care how great you skate. The NHL is filled with fast, strong and big men. They have coaches who pour over video and gameplan to tear you up.

Undersized defensemen have a lot to overcome. They can work in the NHL.
But can they star?
How small is too small?

Is a 5'10 defenseman a good use of a top 10 pick?

Some of the most productive 5'11 and shorter defensemen:
Barrie - Third round pick
Gostisbehere - third round pick.
Butcher - 2nd round pick.
Krug - Undrafted


Since 2004 -
NHL defensemen under 6'0 drafted in the top 10.
1. Cale Makar - Unproven.


Since 2004 - sub 6'0 drafted in round 1
1. Ryan Ellis - 11th overall
2. Ryan Murphy - 11th overall
3. Anthony DeAngelo - 19th overall (22 years old in the AHL)
4. Erik Brannstrom, 15th overall in 2017
5. Cale Makar, 4th overall in 2017

So Ellis is the one guy who's made it since 04. Murphy sort of has. He's played 160 games, but never more than 48 in a season.
GMs have avoided sub 6'0 defenders in the first round.

Why?

Watching Ellis last year, he was fantastic in the playoffs. At the same time, he was defensively almost useless at times.

I'd love to have a Ryan Ellis on the Red Wings.
But Ryan Ellis is a Nick Lidstrom. He's not a Chris Pronger. Or an OEL.
Or a Doughty. Or a Weber.

Do you see Quinn Hughes as a defenseman who excels in every situation? Your leader when you need a goal? When you're trying to prevent a goal?

Or do you see him as a puck mover who helps the PP, but you have to keep him sheltered?

Karlsson was 5'10 when he was drafted. I'm sure you are missing a few more.

Lindström looked very good. Guessing they gave the POG to the wrong Lindström, they also announced Fredrik Karlström as the goalscorer for Belarus.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

How was dahlin. I don’t like hearing nothing but people saying he’s gonna be good

 

[Frk It]

Hughes wasn't in the WJC last year. Maybe U18s. But not in the WJC20s.

Statements like "USA's best player most times he has put the jersey on" are hyperbole.

I'm not opposed to taking a small defenseman. I wanted us to draft David Farrance last year in round 2/3.
But there's a limit to how high in the draft I'm going to go for one of those guys.

I meant the U18's, and no, it's not hyperbole. He was unbelievable last year for them. Go ask anyone on the prospect board.

How do you think a 5'9" defenseman gets ranked top 15? They have to dominate tournaments like that.

Because there's nobody here who's watched all the games he's suited up in a USA jersey.
It's just silly rhetoric.

Given this is a site dedicated to hockey prospects, and it's the best tournament there is to watch hockey prospects, I'd say there are some people who have probably seen him quite a bit.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yeah I'd be fine with Hughes. He's very high skill and that's what we need, not more 6 foot plus guys with no discernible talent or questionable work ethic. This rebuild will take more than one draft so if you get a high end offensive defenseman with your top 2018 pick that's fine. My big hope is we're not relying on the Holland braintrust to make these picks. Not only do we need top 5 picks to hit, we need later picks to turn into quality NHL players.

 

[Redder Winger]

I meant the U18's, and no, it's not hyperbole. He was unbelievable last year for them. Go ask anyone on the prospect board.

How do you think a 5'9" defenseman gets ranked top 15? They have to dominate tournaments like that.

Again, I wasn't there.
But he was second on his team among defensemen in points. A 6'3 defenseman taken in round 3 last year had more goals and more points.

Given this is a site dedicated to hockey prospects, and it's the best tournament there is to watch hockey prospects, I'd say there are some people who have probably seen him quite a bit.

Very, very few. And not you. Or you would have said so.

 

[Frk It]

Again, I wasn't there.
But he was second on his team among defensemen in points. A 6'3 defenseman taken in round 3 last year had more goals and more points.





Very, very few. And not you. Or you would have said so.

I'm glad you know what I do with my free time. I usually catch ~75% of the WJC every year, as I originally said. I've seen him way more than you have. But keep talking about someone you have barely seen. We need more unqualified opinions on here.

 

[Redder Winger]

I'm glad you know what I do with my free time. I usually catch ~75% of the WJC every year. I've seen him more than you have. But keep talking about someone you have barely seen. We need more unqualified opinions on here.

So you're telling me you've seen 75 percent of Hughes' games in a USA jersey.

You saw 5 games at the USA 17s.
7 games at the USA 18s.

Not to mention all the small tournaments that happen through the year.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

As for me I've seen Hughes in person more than five times.
Three times wearing the USA jersey (but for US NTDP - not in a tournament).

 

[Redder Winger]

Karlsson was 5'10 when he was drafted. I'm sure you are missing a few more.

Lindström looked very good. Guessing they gave the POG to the wrong Lindström, they also announced Fredrik Karlström as the goalscorer for Belarus.

Karlsson was 5'11. But I just went by how they're listed at hockeydb.com today.

Hughes is 5'9 or 5'10 depending on who you talk to.
Both is dad and his uncle topped out at 5'10.
I wouldn't count on much growth.

That doesn't mean he won't be an NHLer. I just wonder how much one can reasonably expect.

 

[Frk It]

So you're telling me you've seen 75 percent of Hughes' games in a USA jersey.

You saw 5 games at the USA 17s.
7 games at the USA 18s.

Not to mention all the small tournaments that happen through the year.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

As for me I've seen Hughes in person more than five times.
Three times wearing the USA jersey (but for US NTDP - not in a tournament).

It sti

I'm not going to waste my time with this. No way you are this misinformed yet you have seen him 5 times. Also stop hitting enter 1000 times every time you post so we all have to scroll through your non-sense when we read threads.

 

[Redder Winger]

I'm not going to waste my time with this. No way you are this misinformed yet you have seen him 5 times. Also stop hitting enter 1000 times every time you post so we all have to scroll through your non-sense when we read threads.

There's nothing about my post that's misinformed.
Show me all the 5'10 defensemen in the NHL currently worthy of a top 5 pick in the draft.

I simply think you're talking out of your ass when you say "He's the best player on the ice nearly every time he puts on a USA jersey."

You don't like being called out on it, so I'm misinformed.

 

[Frk It]

There's nothing about my post that's misinformed.
Show me all the 5'10 defensemen in the NHL currently worthy of a top 5 pick in the draft.

I simply think you're talking out of your ass when you say "He's the best player on the ice nearly every time he puts on a USA jersey."

You don't like being called out on it, so I'm misinformed.

20 different people in this thread that have told you that you are way off on Quinn Hughes, so maybe you're the one that is talking out of their ass.

 

[Ezekial]

It's funny to me that Redder will bash the hyperbolic statement Lindstrom and Kotkansalo will never be nhlers against the wall and the WJC Summer Showcase is the end all be all because "I was there."

Okay Brian Williams, this is all opinion of prospects from fans acting as casual scouts, your opinion isn't greater than anyone else's. You aren't more informed because you sat by Ken Holland. You're like a hot take machine - AAs the best, Larkin is overrated, Sheahan being traded was a mistake, Quinn Hughes isn't very good

 

[Redder Winger]

20 different people in this thread that have told you that you are way off on Quinn Hughes, so maybe you're the one that is talking out of their ass.

I just doubt he's worthy of a top 5 pick.

Show me all the other 5'9 and 5;10 defenseman who would go top 5 overall in a redraft.