Charlie Conway
Oxford Comma
- Nov 2, 2013
- 5,026
- 2,644
Prospect Info: With the 39th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Olof Lindbom
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
- Start date
I looked around at goalies a while back, I think many top guys were drafted around the 2nd round.
I hate goalie picks, they are so boring, but from depth point of view of course we need goalies. Shestyorkin is hardly looking like a lock to become great and Hank is what 36?
- Sep 1, 2010
- 9,826
- 7,716
At World under 18s he was goalie of the tournament
These tournaments are either meaningful meaure, or they're not,
you can't decide it doesn't matter when you don't know or like the kid
I am not as down on today as many of you, but picking 6 D in 10 picks is curious
These tournaments are either meaningful meaure, or they're not,
you can't decide it doesn't matter when you don't know or like the kid
I am not as down on today as many of you, but picking 6 D in 10 picks is curious
I looked around at goalies a while back, I think many top guys were drafted around the 2nd round.
I hate goalie picks, they are so boring, but from depth point of view of course we need goalies. Shestyorkin is hardly looking like a lock to become great and Hank is what 36?
I assume this pick was made at all ONLY b'c Allaire insisted. And if he could resurrect Pavelec, his opinion of course must be considered. [That said, we should have dumped Pavelec if a team desperate enough would have given us a late pick for him; our additional losses might not have gotten Dahlin, but couldn't have hurt.]
A couple of things.
1. Currently G is not a position of need.
2. Ola is right, like pitchers in baseball, you can never have too many. The question is when can you selectively include one here and there without taking from positions of need with higher picks in the draft. Accordingly, this guy better be an exceptional talent, someone we picked to not only deepen our end but to deny competitors from taking him, to be worthwhile, let alone make sense.
I don't have concerns that Shesty will come here asap. My expectation is he is the real deal.
However, this is life and in life, stuff happens.
There once was a guy named Pelle Lindburgh [sp?] who was a top goalie. Made the wrong move in a very expensive car [or someone moved into him, I don't remember exactly] and that was all she wrote. Classy thing was donating his organs for somebody else's benefit.
So this is good insurance tho I doubt it was necessary at the use of such a high pick.
Anyone other than Allaire and I demand accountability here.
___________
Going forward:
Halverson at 2nd was also a bust, we should invest what time we can to max him and deal immediately, better than nothing.
Hulska and Wall and Mazanec are the relief behind Georgiev.
2018 means nothing, nothing I tells ya.
As long as we set up for forward push beginning 2019.
Deal Georgiev
Focus on Hulska, deal him in a year, advance Wall.
We should avoid goalies in the nhl now and not pay to acquire but focus on moving newbies up the ladder.
I would make an exception if we got a guy like Darling, who looks like a bust, and in the process of acquiring, we moved someone like Smith or Staal AND got something else in a combo deal. Then we see if we can flip Darling to win now team like Edmonton, ready or not.
A couple of things.
1. Currently G is not a position of need.
2. Ola is right, like pitchers in baseball, you can never have too many. The question is when can you selectively include one here and there without taking from positions of need with higher picks in the draft. Accordingly, this guy better be an exceptional talent, someone we picked to not only deepen our end but to deny competitors from taking him, to be worthwhile, let alone make sense.
I don't have concerns that Shesty will come here asap. My expectation is he is the real deal.
However, this is life and in life, stuff happens.
There once was a guy named Pelle Lindburgh [sp?] who was a top goalie. Made the wrong move in a very expensive car [or someone moved into him, I don't remember exactly] and that was all she wrote. Classy thing was donating his organs for somebody else's benefit.
So this is good insurance tho I doubt it was necessary at the use of such a high pick.
Anyone other than Allaire and I demand accountability here.
___________
Going forward:
Halverson at 2nd was also a bust, we should invest what time we can to max him and deal immediately, better than nothing.
Hulska and Wall and Mazanec are the relief behind Georgiev.
2018 means nothing, nothing I tells ya.
As long as we set up for forward push beginning 2019.
Deal Georgiev
Focus on Hulska, deal him in a year, advance Wall.
We should avoid goalies in the nhl now and not pay to acquire but focus on moving newbies up the ladder.
I would make an exception if we got a guy like Darling, who looks like a bust, and in the process of acquiring, we moved someone like Smith or Staal AND got something else in a combo deal. Then we see if we can flip Darling to win now team like Edmonton, ready or not.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
We'll see how hilarious you think it is when we lose 7-2 to Barzal and Wahlstrom four times a season for the next 10 years.
And when a 2-4 year rebuild is unnecessarily prolonged to 5+ years because of wasted picks on reaches that they were in no position to make.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
Just got back into town and I’m gonna say this right now
f***ING FIRE GORTON AND CLARK AND THE WHOLE STAFF
DISGUSTING. They chose a shitty goalie in round 2 ?????????
OTHER THAN KRAVSTOV IS DIAGREE EITH THE ENTIRE DRAFT. Start to finish
And even kravstov was a reach imo at 9
WTF SERIOUSLY ???
f***ING FIRE GORTON AND CLARK AND THE WHOLE STAFF
DISGUSTING. They chose a shitty goalie in round 2 ?????????
OTHER THAN KRAVSTOV IS DIAGREE EITH THE ENTIRE DRAFT. Start to finish
And even kravstov was a reach imo at 9
WTF SERIOUSLY ???
SA16
Sixstring
Honestly I think the best strategy is to just decide to draft a goalie in the sixth and seventh round every year since the chances that a skater that late is anything successful are very low and not even much higher than an undrafted free agent. Use the late rounds to build up your goalie depth.
Osminator
Registered User
broadwayblue
Registered User
This is the only pick that makes me sick. You have Shesty tearing it up and likely coming over in a year...and Georgiev could be decent. And you spend another high pick in a deep draft on a freaking goalie???
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,269
- 7,797
And yet it's the Isles that have been rebuilding forever and not us. Go and figure.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,269
- 7,797
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
I think taking a goalie that early is crazy, the Rangers of all teams should know that considering our best player ever was a 7th rounder.
If they wanted Lindbolm bad it’s dumb but fine bc you have two 2nds and two 3rds. However, once they traded the second 2nd rounder, taking a goalie in the 2nd should’ve been off the table.
If they wanted Lindbolm bad it’s dumb but fine bc you have two 2nds and two 3rds. However, once they traded the second 2nd rounder, taking a goalie in the 2nd should’ve been off the table.
eco's bones
Registered User
FWIW you can only hope he does well. Watching Gorton's video on the draft he said they thought Lindbom was by far the best goalie in the draft. So hopefully he makes the Swedish WJC team. I'm not going to root against him. It just seems to me we could have done that pick a lot better. That goalie really wasn't a need for us at all.....but it is what it is now.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Honestly, had they taken a forward here, I think we would all be a LOT happier with this draft. Pretty much everyone has bought into the "don't take a goalie before the third round" mantra, and we all believe that the organization is already well stocked in goal. So, when they took another goalie in the second – early, and after having traded the later second – it cast a pall over the entire proceedings. Kind of made it hard to see anything they did in a positive light.
But if you take that factor out, and just look at the overall prospect pool, it's gotten much stronger. Doesn't change the fact that I don't agree with the approach, but it is consistent with the rebuild. Now, it's incumbent upon Gorts to better the distribution – and, of course, pick the right guys to keep/target...
But if you take that factor out, and just look at the overall prospect pool, it's gotten much stronger. Doesn't change the fact that I don't agree with the approach, but it is consistent with the rebuild. Now, it's incumbent upon Gorts to better the distribution – and, of course, pick the right guys to keep/target...
Jauffre
Registered Grandmaster
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
Everyone under the sun knew Hack sucked, maybe 3 people total have seen this kid play as opposed to Hack. So it's two totally different subjects. I can understand not wanting to waste a 2nd on a goalie as a draft value thing but who knows when they haven't seen him. That's too be determined at least 5 years down the road.
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egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 15,961
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I can believe that they had to grab Miller and Kravtsov early because there was interest in those players from other teams. But I find that hard to believe in this case. Regardless of this player’s eventual value I have to believe drafting him at this spot was reaching.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Gordie Clark drafted these players over:
Toffoli, Zucker, Gostisbehere, Klingberg, Gallagher, Murray, Parayko, Athanasiou, Anderson, Slavin, Hellebuyck, Point, Arvidsson.
And I'm a drama queen for being upset with this pick?
That's fine. And you're a homer for blindly trusting in Clark's atrocious drafting.
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its debatable if that caveat is needed...there is just less evidence cause they traded away most of the first
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
You're a drama queen not just for this thread but pretty much every thread you decide to post in, the McD thread is another one where Ernest and Julio would be proud. I never said this pick was great, just that the big drama queens hated it and I got a kick out of laughing at them.
I haven't seen this kid play a single solitary game so I can't judge him. The funny thing is you haven't either but here you are crying like someone just took your favorite toy.
I will reserve judgement on this pick like I do every time when I haven't seen a prospect play.
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Our 1st round record is pretty decent, otoh our 2 round is a shit show. Gordie Clark is an average evaluator.
What he said. Pick one every year. Always late rounds. If I really liked this kid maybe I would have used the Bruins 3rd since that was sort of a bonus. But for now it feels like we kind of whiffed on round two.
Look, this was the goalie the Rangers wanted. A lot of posters complained you don’t select a GK before the 4th round... well this player wouldn’t have been available when the Rangers picked in the 3rd round! Goalies started going off the board just
before our 3rd round pick slection. So it was get him in the second or risk losing him. They felt that high on him they didn’t wanna risk it.
before our 3rd round pick slection. So it was get him in the second or risk losing him. They felt that high on him they didn’t wanna risk it.
Obviously they did imo. You're free to disagree. We'll never know if K'Andre would've lasted or if the NYR could have given up less to move up that tiny amount
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Benny is apparently thrilled with the pick according to Carp but that still doesn’t save it for me
They shoulda used some discernment here. Even if he was “your guy” you could have easily gotten the guy later in the draft
They shoulda used some discernment here. Even if he was “your guy” you could have easily gotten the guy later in the draft
FireGerardGallant
The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
- Mar 19, 2016
- 6,646
- 7,555
Seeing what else was on the board, including other G and seeing the consensus on where Olof should go, it's extremely similar to the Hack pick. It's not about just picking a G, it's picking a lesser G prospect way earlier than seemingly everyone else would've. If he busts completely then the analogy will be complete. Hopefully he doesn't
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Which McDonagh thread? Over the summer where I argued with people on this board that really hought Mac was better than Pietrangelo? When people thought Stepan is better than Dylan Larkin? When people really thought we were getting Keller back in the Stepan trade?
When I thought last off-season was a contradictory shit show by trading your #1 player at the most valuable position in hockey when you probably have the least depth at that position of any other team other than Montreal, and then making a win-now move by signing Shattenkirk? It really showed Gorton had no plan. Either signing Shattenkirk puts you over the top as a Cup contender or trading Stepan is the first step in making a change towards building for the future.
Everything this organization does makes zero sense.
And I'm rightfully so pissed off about it. And Gordie Clark doesn't deserve a reserve of judgement based on his lack of results.
Just look at that tweet from 2015 where he had Gropp ranked as the 6th best forward in that draft.
Do the math with McDavid, Eichel, Strome Marner and Zacha as the consensus top 5. That means that he very likely had Gropp ranked ahead of Rantanen, debrusk, Konecny, Boeser, Barzal, Aho and Connor.
That's embarrassing.
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darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,269
- 7,797
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
I respect you, but it seems clear to me that you heavily prefer Russian prospects to other prospects. And that's fine, but sometimes you gotta give credit where it's due. First of all, I love the Kravtsov pick, but they could have arguably chosen a few better players (in other people's opinions, not mine). But that's not the problem.
The problem is your assessment of our last two 1st rounders, especially the Miller pick, in my opinion. And I know you didn't write much about them here, but I saw your posts on other threads. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about (which is possible), but I thought that Miller was an A+ pick from the moment they chose him. The skill is there. The talent is there. Size. Speed. Athleticism. All the tools. The upside is tremendous. Yea, there were other pretty good players to choose from, but the talent and/or upside difference between Miller and those good players is pretty negligible (I think it's in favor of Miller, personally), compared to what the perceived talent difference is between Kravtsov and who was left on the board. That being said, giving up that 2nd rounder to move up 4 spots ticked me off pretty bad. But for Miller? We might look back in a few years and say it was definitely worth it.
And with Lundkvist, I don't see how you dislike this pick. You don't have to love it, but again, the difference in talent/upside between Lundkvist and the players drafted after him is so small. You can't go wrong with fast, puck-moving D-men with good upside.
The problem is you give credit where credit is due (and even sometimes when it's not due) to Russians, but not to players from other countries. Sometimes you do, but I sense a little bias there. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Maybe you don't focus on their nationalities. Maybe you're better at evaluating talent than me. I'm not going to say I know everything, because I don't, but there does seem to be a pattern.
2018 NHL Draft prospect profile: Olof Lindbom is a jack of all trades
so he is not fast and doesn't have an elite reaction, not much Allaire can do to improve that. This has bust written all over it.
so he is not fast and doesn't have an elite reaction, not much Allaire can do to improve that. This has bust written all over it.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
You can respect me, but I don't have respect for your approach. You want to criticize me. Just say it. Don't try to soften what you said. I don't respect your halfway approach. You tried to slight me. Lets just call it what it is.
As for what you said, you really are wrapped up in a faulty narrative and you are making a fool of yourself. I didn't like the Miller and Lundkvist picks because I had them about 30 and about 15 spots lower than where we picked them, respectively. I don't think severely over-drafting a player's draft slot is a good idea. Do you? I don't need to be lectured by you what to think of Lundvkist and Miller. I've seen more than enough from both to draw my own conclusions about their games prior to them being drafted. The Kravtsov pick was one spot above where I had him ranked, so its not fair to complain about that. And for the record, I would've preferred like 2-3 players still on the board to Kravtsov, but we didn't skip multiple tiers of players to draft him. You are really over-thinking things to try to create a narrative that I care about the nationalities of the players we pick.
I base my opinions about our draft on where I ranked these players. I'm not one of the many here who just shill for the team, and claim every pick was a good one after having never watched any of these guys play. I don't think taking a 6-10 ranked goalie in the second round or two second round defensemen in the first, along with giving up a second round pick to move up in the draft, makes sense. After that, I thought our draft was pretty good, but going off the board with 3 of your first 4 picks is a pretty terrible start to a draft.
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offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
taking a goalie at 39 is unforgivable ?? tough with all these false confirmations and justifications around here about he's the best goalie in the draft or he's best player at 39. he's not and that was not the best choice. period. this is a head scratcher and for me, makes this draft a full grade lower.
who in charge here ? are we rebuilding or are we drafting for need or best player available ? who can tell. the 39th pick on a goalie ? you cannot be serious.
this is the same clown that drafted mcilrath at 9. good lord.
look, krav at 9 is fine. he's a stud. and miller looks like a real smart upside play even though he's a lefty and may need some time to marinate. he's raw and will need time to be coached what he's shown is enough for me to say thats a solid pick. im 100% ok with those 2 picks. 100%
wanted ryan merkley but he went at 21 right before we moved up.
but after that ? lunkvist is an ok pick. there were better choices there for sure. he's got flair but was he the best choice there ? i disagree. prefer alexeyev here. imo, the better overall dman.
after that, the 39th pick was a waste. there were many skaters available there and with georgie and shesty and huska and wall in the system, this pick defies logic and makes me not trust clark at all. again.
day 2 imo was a let down.
who in charge here ? are we rebuilding or are we drafting for need or best player available ? who can tell. the 39th pick on a goalie ? you cannot be serious.
this is the same clown that drafted mcilrath at 9. good lord.
look, krav at 9 is fine. he's a stud. and miller looks like a real smart upside play even though he's a lefty and may need some time to marinate. he's raw and will need time to be coached what he's shown is enough for me to say thats a solid pick. im 100% ok with those 2 picks. 100%
wanted ryan merkley but he went at 21 right before we moved up.
but after that ? lunkvist is an ok pick. there were better choices there for sure. he's got flair but was he the best choice there ? i disagree. prefer alexeyev here. imo, the better overall dman.
after that, the 39th pick was a waste. there were many skaters available there and with georgie and shesty and huska and wall in the system, this pick defies logic and makes me not trust clark at all. again.
day 2 imo was a let down.
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eco's bones
Registered User
FWIW I went on youtube last night to see what I could find on Lindbom and there wasn't a whole lot but there were highlights from a tournament game last year--a game that Sweden played against the USA u18 team with the Hughes brothers, Wahlstrom, Wilde etc. etc. where Lindbom makes 37 saves and Sweden wins 2-0. There are a bunch of stuff attempts but Sweden's defenders have pretty good structure in front of their net all the time. Lindbom shuts down the corners and uses his size to make himself look big. He's in control and not flopping around or overreacting. He pounces on and freezes pucks--his angles are good with the longer range attempts and he doesn't kick rebounds in front of him--he deflects them away from the goal crease. It may have been a game just like this that got the Rangers scouts interested.
That said--I agree with all your points above. Maybe if we were the Islanders, the Flyers, Blues or Sharks or one of those teams that always seem to have iffy netminding I could see drafting a goalie early. With the Rangers though that's not the case. Lundqvist was still strong last year--after a shaky first month he was our best player the rest of the way. Georgiev looked superb for the most part in the 10 games he played and at 21 I think the sky is the limit for him. If he continues to get better he's a No. 1 worthy NHL goalie and then there is Shesterkin who probably is the best goalie prospect outside the NHL.....and then there's Huska who has a legit shot at being an NHL backup. Not that every goalie the Rangers have picked or signed as a free agent has worked out but they've always been able to find a gem on the free agent market.
broadwayblue
Registered User
I wish we could just delete this thread. I get pissed every time I see it...for so many of the reasons listed above. This pick is part of the reason we aren't included in a list of nearly 10 teams who most improved themselves in the draft, despite having as many high quality picks as anyone.
There is a method to their madness. There was a major run on goalies in the following rounds, and I'm sure they knew it was going to happen, there were 29 of them taken, and something like 20 game in the last 3 rounds. They clearly had this guy as their number 1 guy, and if you don't even have a decent backup goalie- you're not making the playoffs in an even greater parity driven league.
While I'm not happy with the asset management side of the things, I understand why they made the pick.
You really can't get a good grasp on him until he starts playing some major minutes. Not sure if that happens in the J20 league where he's got 2 years of eligibility. I'm curious to see if he gets picked up in the import draft.
While I'm not happy with the asset management side of the things, I understand why they made the pick.
You really can't get a good grasp on him until he starts playing some major minutes. Not sure if that happens in the J20 league where he's got 2 years of eligibility. I'm curious to see if he gets picked up in the import draft.
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
No, I really do respect you. I like your insight on here. I'm not really criticizing you and yea it may have come off that way, but you don't know what someone's tone is online. I admitted I might be wrong. It's hockey. No one knows anything for sure. It's all opinions. I was just upset that you thought so poorly of Miller and Lundkvist.
I agree with Kravtsov, as I had him ranked right after Dobson and Wahlstrom. It's just that the majority feel that we could have gotten a better player.
And in regards to Miller and Lundkvist, many have been saying they are underrated prospects. And yes I know it's a poor argument to use the argument of the majority, but pro scouts have been saying this. I have also watched and read up on most of these prospects ever since the Rangers announced they were rebuilding.
Finally, I will agree with you that after the 1st round, the Rangers messed up a few times, especially taking a goalie with so much talent left on the board (when that goalie could have been there much later). And they should not have traded their 2nd to move up 4 spots. I'm not a cheerleader for this team either.
Again, my bad if I came off a certain way, but I just don't see how you can say our last two 1st round picks were reaches. Maybe there were better players, but the talent difference is too negligible to call them reaches.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
this was a mistake period.
this kid is not the 39th best hockey player in this draft. period.
so many better choices at 39.
gordie continues to show the holes in his game.
this kid is not the 39th best hockey player in this draft. period.
so many better choices at 39.
gordie continues to show the holes in his game.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 44,889
- 40,443
With the goalie-exception lifted on the CHL import draft, he could be the first in a while to make the move
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
It doesn't hold the same gravity as Jessiman or McIlrath because it wasn't as high, but in terms of pure stupidity, this is the dumbest pick I've ever seen this team make.
I digested it for 24 hours and I still think it's the dumbest pick they ever made. Way, way, way off the board, at a strong organizational position, after we traded our other 2nd, at a position where our high picks have a history of laughably failing. 4 for 4. A grand slam of ineptitude.
I digested it for 24 hours and I still think it's the dumbest pick they ever made. Way, way, way off the board, at a strong organizational position, after we traded our other 2nd, at a position where our high picks have a history of laughably failing. 4 for 4. A grand slam of ineptitude.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
seems the best thing we can say about this pic is that we need to wait a few years before we can declare it a waste.
wait. you'll see. it might seem bad now, but just wait. in 2 years it will be um.... worse. lol
i hate the pick. i hate the player we chose. i hate the position he plays at 39. i hate the idea that #39 was the right spot for this kid
its as though gordie does this just to show he's smarter than everyone else.
we get it gordo. you arent.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I've never been of the belief that you can just ignore bad strategy because the prospect became good. If this kid becomes a starter, we still could have had him later and another NHL player at 39.
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