Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense
- Thread starter voyageur
- Start date
it's a weird thing.
schedulewise, i can watch all non-west coast games. i'm unemployed (thank you, COVID), my wife works evenings 3 days a week.
but i have no qualms with missing a game when there's something else. i'll easily watch a Raptors' game instead. or WandaVision. that's pretty great.
Crazy - I can't miss a game (even if I watch afterwards). Even when they ruin my night - the Calgary loss pissed me off WAY more than the loss last night.
At this point you could scratch Beaulieu and Stanley and do this...
Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Heinola (Samberg)-Poolman
You'd have a hard time convincing me the Jets would be worse than with Beaulieu in the line-up, and they might actually be better. Heinola might give them some high end puck movement and offense from the 3rd pair, whereas Samberg could give them a shutdown D with PK contribution.
oh yeah. i'm a more reasonable fan, i guess? the 10 PM EST game last week, tied at 2nd intermission, i shut off. bed was more important.
if the quality was better, i'd stick it through. if the coaching gave me confidence, i'd stick it through.
i was literally coming on HF to post "watch, the Sens will tie it up" after BooBoo put the puck over the glass.
Sad to say, because Morrissey was trending as a dominate #2...that 1st pairing may be the worst in the league.
Also at this point we are far enough into the season that you may as well not play Heinola and just let his ELC slide. I’d like Samberg to get some action but it is what it is
That's fine, make them the second pairing. But Morrissey needs a consistent and effective partner for a stretch to try to get him closer to what he was a couple of seasons ago.
I agree that Pionk has been our best defenceman. The problem with using Morrisey's contact as a comparable is that he's been playing like a $3M defenseman for some time. I'd still give Pionk Morrisey's contract given how he's played for us and the lack of other options, but I doubt he gets that on a deeper team.
Gauging defenseman is tricky. Morrisey and Trouba were clear 1Ds together, but have struggled apart. Chariot looks like a capable 1D in Montreal while lots of fans thought he was bottom pairing material here. Outside of a handful of players who will succeed no matter how they are used, it is difficult to know whether a defenseman will be able to succeed in a different role.
Different knowledgeable posters on here will often disagree on defenseman performance in a given game. It shows how hard it is to guage performance. Personally, I'm impressed if the player can move the puck effectively, doesn't commit stupid turnovers and protects the net. I've given up on offense, but some offense from the blue line is likely a must have for a contender.
Mediocre defenceman can often develop into effective top defenders with the right useage and development. I think the Jets are on the right track to getting something at least effective after our defence blew up a couple of years ago. I'd love to add a 1RD if available, but wouldn't force a risky trade if not. We can keep working with what we have and hope someone is able to grow into an impact player.
I disagree with rushing Heinola or Samberg in now. Even if they are better than some of our current players (a big if IMO), rushing them could hold them back long term. There are also cap and XD considerations. Its been fun having something to watch, but I dont think we should invest many future assets to this COVID season.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
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Everyone says that. But I also think there is something different about Morrissey in general from 2 years ago. Maybe it has to do with the A he is wearing. Then there is the no Buff factor. Morrissey is relied on to be the offensive leader of this team now, as opposed to the defensive leader. And maybe his mindset has changed. Maybe it changed with his injury last year. But he's not as physical as he used to be, at all, which may be a conservation method. He's shying away from blocking shots too on the PK. With Maurice choosing Forbort and Pionk as his shutdown pair, tied to Lowry, that says a lot. I look at the opening scoring chance Calgary got against us. It was Morrissey being outskated by Backlund, straight up the gut, that led to a 2-1 that Beaulieu had to try to defend. He left Poolman alone to break up a 2-1 against Ottawa. I know Maurice is not coaching the team to give up odd man rushes, so there is something just off about Josh to start the year. Luckily the talent is in the toolbox, and a good stretch will make a bad stretch forgettable.
But I don't think you can throw shade on every other player, when Morrissey has the worst GA/60 ES on the defensive squad (-Niku) and the worst metric of all our d-men on the PK. There's something going on.
- Dec 29, 2016
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Yes, he does -
There is a gapping hole in our D and it's a true #1
Without a top pair that can munch big minutes and take care of things in our end when needed the most, we have a below average D - and Maurice knows it.
When I look at the bottom 4, I want a mix of puck movers and heavy bodies. We have the puck movers, especially when you add Heinola but we are missing the heavy guys that know how to be heavy. Samberg will help here - hopefully. This is also why Mo is hesitant in dropping booboo out of the mix (right or wrong).
Morrissey - XXXXX
Bottom 4 -
I'd work Heinola, Samberg, Demelo, Poolman into the bottom 4
I'd move Pionk to help fill XXXXX -
Heinola is the 2nd pairing puck mover (replacing Pionk)
Bottom pairing is pure defensive
Why are Samberg and Heinola not in the line up?
IMO, we don't need another lightweight - I think Heinola replaced Pionk at some point - meanwhile, Heinola gets more time to learn the NHL game.
I think he'd love to work Samberg in now but the guy needs some time to adjust to the NHL speed and grind - especially if he is asked to play a heavy game against Pro's. Samberg, even more than Heinola, needs this time to prepare for the wear and tear his role will be subject to - I think it makes sense to give him some time on the Moose - regardless of how much he might add now (if he was ready).
Slamberg will get huge minutes as will Heinola which is exactly what they need.
Slamberg playing on the right side?
Good idea and the Moose is the place to see if he can handle it or not. A JMo-Slamberg pairing would be ideal if Slamberg can play that side.
I just hate that Boolow is dressing every goddam game.
Slamberg playing on the right side?
Good idea and the Moose is the place to see if he can handle it or not. A JMo-Slamberg pairing would be ideal if Slamberg can play that side.
I just hate that Boolow is dressing every goddam game.
Lightweight shmightweight the only thing that matters is getting the job done. Pionk gets it done Heinola gets it done beaulieu does not.
- Dec 29, 2016
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Yes, getting it done is what it's all about -
Remember Buff, Chiarot, Trouba? They had a mean steak in them that made them very difficult to play against - few teams were resorting to dump / chase / cycle against that lot - now they do it as part of the game plan know we get hemmed in very easily.
I think it something to do with the angry beef we had back there - but that's just my opinion.
Ducky10
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Not sure if this belongs in the D thread or the coaching thread but they are connected.
truck
Registered User
The only hope the Jets have of icing an average or better D group, is a breakout performance by Heinola and/or Samberg - that solidifies them as plus players in the top 4.
Mo doesn't appear capable of identifying the team's current issues and he isn't willing to give youth a shot, so I have little hope that they'll turn this around.
Mo doesn't appear capable of identifying the team's current issues and he isn't willing to give youth a shot, so I have little hope that they'll turn this around.
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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Not dropping Boo Boo out of the mix is most definitely wrong. His size or "heaviness" has not done a thing to change his lack of effectiveness. He doesn't have the ability at this level, especially with the minutes he's playing and the opposition he's tasked against. It begins and ends there.
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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Which even if it doesn't lead to the playoffs this season will pay huge dividends for next season. Maurice knows he's in survival mode so he's going with what he thinks are his best odds, which despite not working by almost every measure, still won't make him change his mind. Blind spots are a bitch.
- Dec 29, 2016
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I agree Booboo is not the player that will solve our problems if you think heavy / tough is a need - but he's probably the best we have at this point and it's why Mo has left him in there.
I'm not advocating for him to be part of the blueline - I'm only suggesting why Maurice might have him in there.
I'd play Stanley over him in a heart beat -
That is frightening. And embarrassing.
How in the world does the coaching staff still have a job?
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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I get what you're saying to some extent, but I don't know what beef has to do with anything when you're getting pummelled in scoring chances when you're on the ice. That didn't happen to Buff and Trouba, the beef, especially with Buff just added to being already effective players. It was just a bonus.
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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That
That's the million dollar question. But this kind of stuff is meaningless to Maurice, because we don't see what's really happening.
- Dec 29, 2016
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Size plays a roll in separating player from puck - which will impact scoring chances against if you can regain possession and turn up the other way. We seem to spend too much time in our end - I'm suggesting size might be able to help us with that (help, not solve)
You need the skill as well - I'm not suggesting otherwise - that bunch back then had it. But size helps and I think it's more than a bonus - it's part of what made them effective.
Yeah ideally you have a good skating puck mover and a bigger defence first guy on every pairing. Even more ideal is a bigger good skating puck mover. We really need to give Heinola and Samberg a shot. At best we turn this sinking ship around, at worst they suck and we at least know what we have in them and can look at other options.
