Confirmed with Link: Wings sign Dominik Kubalik (2 years x $2.5 m per)

[BinCookin]

There is something missing from this discussion.

You don't just get to tank 2023 and 2024 and get elite talent and then compete in 2025... And I will tell you why...

Larkin, Bertuzzi and many other 24-28 year olds in our organization will leave. They will not sign here when the plan is tank forever... See the Eichel situation.

No point drafting the next McDavid, if he is virtually playing alone.
As has been said... odds are like 5% that we even land the "mystery next McDavid" anyway.

In either case, the CURRENT players are not being helped by having no talent around. Our young players could be better with more mentorship. Increased competition will push players to get better. Gifting Rasmussen or Zadina NHL jobs has not helped their development.

If Larkin and Bertuzzi said "this city sucks, im tired of losing, they have no plans to get better while im still a player"... than they will just leave in UFA, or demand a trade. Other RFA players will see this and maybe demand trades as well. You just assume Seider and Raymond wont demand a trade, but if they see a horrible scorched earth plan, id want out too.

This option to suck until we find Elite talent ruins or losses what talent you have already. So basically prepare to rebuild from scratch if you want to tank for 1-3 more years.

Assuming we can get #1 overall Bedard or #2 Michkov.... this is a fools errand. The odds of failure are high.

I much prefer the route our GM is taking... and signing really good young players, and one elite Veteran to teach them.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

There is something missing from this discussion.

You don't just get to tank 2023 and 2024 and get elite talent and then compete in 2025... And I will tell you why...

Larkin, Bertuzzi and many other 24-28 year olds in our organization will leave. They will not sign here when the plan is tank forever... See the Eichel situation.

No point drafting the next McDavid, if he is virtually playing alone.
As has been said... odds are like 5% that we even land the "mystery next McDavid" anyway.

In either case, the CURRENT players are not being helped by having no talent around. Our young players could be better with more mentorship. Increased competition will push players to get better. Gifting Rasmussen or Zadina NHL jobs has not helped their development.

If Larkin and Bertuzzi said "this city sucks, im tired of losing, they have no plans to get better while im still a player"... than they will just leave in UFA, or demand a trade. Other RFA players will see this and maybe demand trades as well. You just assume Seider and Raymond wont demand a trade, but if they see a horrible scorched earth plan, id want out too.

This option to suck until we find Elite talent ruins or losses what talent you have already. So basically prepare to rebuild from scratch if you want to tank for 1-3 more years.

Assuming we can get #1 overall Bedard or #2 Michkov.... this is a fools errand. The odds of failure are high.

I much prefer the route our GM is taking... and signing really good young players, and one elite Veteran to teach them.

And in a more positive sense... it's entirely possible that if you get a legitimate defense that can actually facilitate moving the puck up the ice while not handling it like a grenade and some players who can actually somewhat produce in the bottom 6, maybe guys like Zadina and Rasmussen actually become closer to what you thought they might be.

I mean, if you think about it, the Wings were essentially gifting at least 1/3, but probably closer to 1/2 of the game to the opponent almost nightly. Other teams knew Gagner, Rowney, Stephens, etc. at forward and Biega, Stetcher, Oesterle, DDK, etc. would see a successful shift as "holding court". So, the responsibility for doing anything to win the game landed on Larkin, Bertuzzi, Raymond, Seider, Vrana, and the goalie. You have a guy like Mo Seider, he can still play well in that situation because he's a unicorn. But a lot of other guys when you ask them to do too much too soon, it ruins them. Let Zadina just ride with a line that isn't benders and see what you've got. Let Rasmussen just learn to be a netfront guy on a line that can actually get pucks to the front of the net.

I think a lot of these young drafted guys (like Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, etc) have more talent than they've shown because they got dropped onto an incredibly poor roster and essentially forced to sink or swim without anything resembling an AHL defense let alone an NHL one.

 

[Frk It]

I much prefer the route our GM is taking... and signing really good young players, and one elite Veteran to teach them.

Why you would do anything else with this lottery system, I couldn’t tell you.

I’m so glad we are going the route we are instead of doing this dumb shit Chicago is right now.

 

[Leibinger6]

without anything resembling an AHL defense let alone an NHL one.

Agree with most of your post, but their defense would dominate the AHL level. That isn’t debatable.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Agree with most of your post, but their defense would dominate the AHL level. That isn’t debatable.

Yeah, I went a bit far... but it has been very disturbing to run out guys who are just overmatched at this level.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

After reading through the last five pages I am as convinced as ever that Kubalik was a sneaky good signing.
Not sure Kubalik's been mentioned since page two - hopefully someone left a trail of bread crumbs to lead us back on topic.

 

[SoupNazi]

Why you would do anything else with this lottery system, I couldn’t tell you.

I’m so glad we are going the route we are instead of doing this dumb shit Chicago is right now.

When Chicago finishes dead last and picks fourth or fifth, I'm probably going to die.

Laughing.

 

[Gniwder]

If Larkin and Bertuzzi said "this city sucks, im tired of losing, they have no plans to get better while im still a player"...

Larkin is from Waterford.

When Chicago finishes dead last and picks fourth or fifth, I'm probably going to die.

Laughing.

3rd would be the worst they can do now

 

[SoupNazi]

3rd would be the worst they can do now

Either way. I'm still gonna laugh when Arizona gets 1OA and the Hawks don't.

 

[haulinbass]

Either way. I'm still gonna laugh when Arizona gets 1OA and the Hawks don't.

I would be pretty thrilled with 3OA in that draft... The way things are looking (however things can change) your going to get a 1st line player you can build around at 3.

Not sure how anyone can give Chicago shit for choosing to go all in now. What were they supposed to do, run a rebuild like Ken Holland and just hover in no mans land?

Either way. I'm still gonna laugh when Arizona gets 1OA and the Hawks don't.

I would be pretty thrilled with 3OA in that draft... The way things are looking (however things can change) your going to get a 1st line player you can build around at 3.

Not sure how anyone can give Chicago shit for choosing to go all in now. What were they supposed to do, run a rebuild like Ken Holland and just hover in no mans land? Wait until there is a worse draft to end up on the bottom?

 

[Frk It]

Not sure how anyone can give Chicago shit for choosing to go all in now. What were they supposed to do, run a rebuild like Ken Holland and just hover in no mans land? Wait until there is a worse draft to end up on the bottom?

Going all in on what?

Regardless of what their plan is, letting a 24 year old DeBrincat was stupid. Letting go of Dach is stupid (my opinion). And what they did last summer was stupid too.

 

[RRhoads]

Going all in on what?

Regardless of what their plan is, letting a 24 year old DeBrincat was stupid. Letting go of Dach is stupid (my opinion). And what they did last summer was stupid too.

After their summer sale, they have less cap space than us. Something had to be done.

Could they have gotten more for Debrincat? Maybe. It's not certain though, because so many teams are up against the cap.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I don't get the Hawks at all. How is it a rebuild if you trade "under 25, still upside left, not overpaid" players for low returns? How is that going to make you substantially better in the future?

 

[jkutswings]

I don't get the Hawks at all. How is it a rebuild if you trade "under 25, still upside left, not overpaid" players for low returns? How is that going to make you substantially better in the future?

It's the "rebuild the rebuild" approach that some have advocated here.

I hope Chicago has a thirty year playoff drought.

 

[haulinbass]

Going all in on what?

Regardless of what their plan is, letting a 24 year old DeBrincat was stupid. Letting go of Dach is stupid (my opinion). And what they did last summer was stupid too.

Rebuilds take a few years at best, those guys won't be so young by the time that's done. I don't blame them acquiring the assets they did and landing a top 3 next year. A top 3 pick is part of the package deal moving those guys. You don't get many shots at players who will be available at the top of this draft next year. They are doing the same thing Toronto did when Shanahan came in, they did it at the right time and it was extremely effective. Only mistake was letting the Toronto pressure get to them and rushing into bad decisions like Tavaras, handcuffing themselves and pushing the asking prices up of their drafted players.

I'm not saying Chicago is going to execute it right down the road, but if your going to rebuild, now is the time to do it. Not the season after, it's this draft. If you land top 2 or even end up picking 3, losing Debrincat and Dach won't mean much. Plus it's not like they didn't get rebuilding assets for them already.

 

[BinCookin]

You know just trading some players away doesnt guarantee chicago finishes dead last.
Arizona has that honor most likely...

The most hilarious thing chicago could do is still have Kane and Toews and they, as a protest... drag chicago to pick outside the top 10.

 

[SoupNazi]

It's the "rebuild the rebuild" approach that some have advocated here.

I hope Chicago has a thirty year playoff drought.

Only thirty? Sir, you're too kind.

 

[jkutswings]

The most hilarious thing chicago could do is still have Kane and Toews and they, as a protest... drag chicago to pick outside the top 10.

It would be the one and only time I'd cheer for Patrick Kane to win the Heart Trophy.

 

[Gniwder]

Either way. I'm still gonna laugh when Arizona gets 1OA and the Hawks don't.

It would be a shameful waste of talent if Arizona got #1

 

[Geezer WC]

Dach is a player and he's 21. Chicago is frigged!

 

[Frk It]

Rebuilds take a few years at best, those guys won't be so young by the time that's done. I don't blame them acquiring the assets they did and landing a top 3 next year. A top 3 pick is part of the package deal moving those guys. You don't get many shots at players who will be available at the top of this draft next year. They are doing the same thing Toronto did when Shanahan came in, they did it at the right time and it was extremely effective. Only mistake was letting the Toronto pressure get to them and rushing into bad decisions like Tavaras, handcuffing themselves and pushing the asking prices up of their drafted players.

I'm not saying Chicago is going to execute it right down the road, but if your going to rebuild, now is the time to do it. Not the season after, it's this draft. If you land top 2 or even end up picking 3, losing Debrincat and Dach won't mean much. Plus it's not like they didn't get rebuilding assets for them already.

Nothing says "going all in on a rebuild" like trading away your highest pick in 15 years while keeping your aging stars that take up a huge % of the cap.

I think Chicago is deserving of criticism and really lacks direction right now. Maybe these sketchy moves they did will pay off for them somehow, but I do not think they are executing any kind of concise/coherent plan right now and I would much rather be in our position.

 

[Henkka]

Nothing says "going all in on a rebuild" like trading away your highest pick in 15 years while keeping your aging stars that take up a huge % of the cap.

I think Chicago is deserving of criticism and really lacks direction right now. Maybe these sketchy moves they did will pay off for them somehow, but I do not think they are executing any kind of concise/coherent plan right now and I would much rather be in our position.

It's just pathetic move to tank for Bedard and Michkov. I hope they fail and draft somewhere at #4.

 

[BinCookin]

I would like to go on record.. I am a big Kubalik fan.

I was amazed that Chicago did not offer him a QO. And he was my #1 target for detroit to sign.
I was pumped hearing he signed here. We are going to love the type of game he plays:

He Shoots a lot
He Hits a lot

I do not know how he will produce, but i think there is a solid chance, he could produce a lot.

 

[jaster]

Regardless of where Chicago goes from here, I will always love the poison pill [Seth Jones] that Bowman left for them. That trade/contract will haunt them twice as much as Holland's Abdlekader contract haunted us.

The Debrincat/Dach trades were dubious, their top picks this year were questionable, but I can see what Davidson is trying to do. He's a big analytics guy, maybe one who leans too far in that direction, but he basically started the rebuild in March, with an obvious eye towards tanking this season for a top pick. He'll trade Kane and maybe Toews at some point. Question is, has he created a scenario where they are so damn bad that they become embedded as a perennial loser before they can take that first step back to relevancy like Detroit just did? Time will tell.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Regardless of where Chicago goes from here, I will always love the poison pill [Seth Jones] that Bowman left for them. That trade/contract will haunt them twice as much as Holland's Abdlekader contract haunted us.

The Debrincat/Dach trades were dubious, their top picks this year were questionable, but I can see what Davidson is trying to do. He's a big analytics guy, maybe one who leans too far in that direction, but he basically started the rebuild in March, with an obvious eye towards tanking this season for a top pick. He'll trade Kane and maybe Toews at some point. Question is, has he created a scenario where they are so damn bad that they become embedded as a perennial loser before before they can take that first step back to relevancy like Detroit just did? Time will tell.

Time will tell. Yes, yes they will.

"It was 40 yrs ago, July '82 when progressive rock supergroup 'Asia' released 'Only Time Will Tell' featuring former Yes guitarist (GOTY 5x award winner) Steve Howe, & former King Crimson singer & bassist Jon Wetton belching out another chart topping hit into the night." - Plausible Eddie Kramer


"perennial loser" I like the sound of that.