GDT: Wings @ Devils - 1:00 PM - MSG+2

[Billdo]

I cannot understate how absolutely horrible Johnsson was today. Just horrifying.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I was ok with Ruff coming back next year but the constant throwing his more skilled guys under the bus is rubbing me off the wrong way. Let’s hope they just don’t pick David Quinn because HBSC doesn’t want to pay a competent coaching staff.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

Ruff is the biggest part of NJ Devils problems. Goaltending will improve with a better coached positional and accountable system in front of them. I have seen Jaques Lemaire take over the worst teams in Devils franchise and turn them into SC contenders.

 

[MauDevils]

I like how Tatar stole Boqvist's number only to put up a worse PPG.

 

[Emperoreddy]

These games are beyond meaningless.

Everyone is ready to go into offseason mode. The coach is dead man walking.

Trying to read anything meaningful out lf these last games is an exercise in futility. Check out until draft day because ranting about these games at this point is a waste of energy.

 

[Bleedred]

Ruff is the biggest part of NJ Devils problems. Goaltending will improve with a better coached positional and accountable system in front of them. I have seen Jaques Lemaire take over the worst teams in Devils franchise and turn them into SC contenders.View attachment 535246

We need to have NHL caliber goalies first for me to believe Ruff being gone will significantly improve the goalies.

The only NHL caliber goalies we had here this year were Bernier (gone for good after about 10 starts or whatever it was) and Blackwood and let's be serious, Blackwood hasn't looked like an NHL caliber goalie since maybe February of last year?

Daws was NOT NHL caliber, but got overrated on here because he had some good games more often than Gillies and even Hammond and actually had a good streak. Something the other AHL guys did not have. None of them have had good streaks at all, merely just good games here and there. Like Vegas and today against Detroit for Hammond.

Schmid didn't even look NHL caliber for even a single period out there.

Wedgewood hasn't had an NHL caliber season before this year and he's almost 30 years old.

Gillies probably just had his best game as a Devil just yesterday, unless you count the 31 muffins he faced against Montreal in a blowout win that got their coach fired.

That said, if you've read any of my posts (the 5000 I've made on the topic the last few days) I don't even want Ruff to get a chance with new goalies, but if we think we're gonna throw Blackwood out there and he's gonna play well under a new coach or rely on Bernier or whatever, then the next coach will probably have a VERY QUICK heel turn.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think people are not "upset" with this game in particular but are just kind of done with the season in general. I know I am. It is frustrating to me to see a team that on paper should be a fringe playoff team, be so inept at this little aspects of the game. They couldn't even complete a very simple pass more often than not tonight. We get solid goaltending and completely shit the bed offensively. Other times we score 6 but give up 7. Its just infuriating at this point. Regardless I am glad this season is over after Friday and I can only hope Ruff and Recchi are gone.

It doesn't help the team's lost seven straight at home...the 11,492 in attendance (a shockingly low total for a Sunday afternoon game with nice weather) pretty much had enough today.

 

[Bleedred]

It doesn't help the team's lost seven straight at home...the 11,492 in attendance (a shockingly low total for a Sunday afternoon game with nice weather) pretty much had enough today.

I didn't even look at the official attendance today, but it was only 10-something yesterday against a way better opponent.

It didn't look that bad on TV though, I was a little shocked it was that low.

 

[NJDevs26]

Oof I didn’t realize the attendance for yesterday was that low though I couldn’t even sell a pair for minimum price so it’s not that shocking either

 

[Billdo]

It doesn't help the team's lost seven straight at home...the 11,492 in attendance (a shockingly low total for a Sunday afternoon game with nice weather) pretty much had enough today.

I paid $11 a piece for balcony seats. It was empty. Got the bobble head which was nice but otherwise a super boring waste of an afternoon.

 

[MadDevil]

Ruff is the biggest part of NJ Devils problems. Goaltending will improve with a better coached positional and accountable system in front of them. I have seen Jaques Lemaire take over the worst teams in Devils franchise and turn them into SC contenders.View attachment 535246

Oh boy, a Rolston sighting. Also, as usual Clarkson looks confused.

 

[ScottyK]

I cannot understate how absolutely horrible Johnsson was today. Just horrifying.

He's going to love playing in front of 4500 ppl every night in AZ

 

[Devil made me do it]

Haven’t been able to watch much of the game. How have Okhotiuk, Bahl, and Smith looked?

Okhotiuk to me looks like an NHL defenseman. I think this kid will have a long career in the league. Very polished. Passes the eye test.
Bahl looks like an AHL-er. Just a big body with not much else.

 

[Billdo]

Okhotiuk to me looks like an NHL defenseman. I think this kid will have a long career in the league. Very polished. Passes the eye test.
Bahl looks like an AHL-er. Just a big body with not much else.

Okhotiuk looks very good. He's physical which is obviously something we've been missing. I thought Bahl was probably our best defenseman yesterday which isn't saying much but he's been good IMO. Probably a bottom pairing ceiling and hopefully some PKing.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

We need to have NHL caliber goalies first for me to believe Ruff being gone will significantly improve the goalies.

The only NHL caliber goalies we had here this year were Bernier (gone for good after about 10 starts or whatever it was) and Blackwood and let's be serious, Blackwood hasn't looked like an NHL caliber goalie since maybe February of last year?

Daws was NOT NHL caliber, but got overrated on here because he had some good games more often than Gillies and even Hammond and actually had a good streak. Something the other AHL guys did not have. None of them have had good streaks at all, merely just good games here and there. Like Vegas and today against Detroit for Hammond.

Schmid didn't even look NHL caliber for even a single period out there.

Wedgewood hasn't had an NHL caliber season before this year and he's almost 30 years old.

Gillies probably just had his best game as a Devil just yesterday, unless you count the 31 muffins he faced against Montreal in a blowout win that got their coach fired.

That said, if you've read any of my posts (the 5000 I've made on the topic the last few days) I don't even want Ruff to get a chance with new goalies, but if we think we're gonna throw Blackwood out there and he's gonna play well under a new coach or rely on Bernier or whatever, then the next coach will probably have a VERY QUICK heel turn.

The Devils have a problem with goaltending however I have not given up on Blackwood yet. I have seen him protect the net very well and believe he still has what it takes. The NJ Devils organization also does not hold defenseman accountable like they have in the past. We are vulnerable too often in our own zone. Great goalies have had careers ruined with bad defenseman in. front of them. Bad defenseman invite high probability scoring chances that can make any goalie look weak.

 

[Satans Hockey]

It doesn't help the team's lost seven straight at home...the 11,492 in attendance (a shockingly low total for a Sunday afternoon game with nice weather) pretty much had enough today.

I can't say I'm surprised, unless you had tickets already why would anyone who has actually watched this team in the last month waste a beautiful afternoon watching this garbage.

I don't think that many people actually like top gun that much lol

 

[Unknown Caller]

Okhotiuk to me looks like an NHL defenseman. I think this kid will have a long career in the league. Very polished. Passes the eye test.
Bahl looks like an AHL-er. Just a big body with not much else.

Bahl has been excellent since he was called up, he was a top 2 defenseman in xGF% over that span as of a game or two ago. I was critical of him in his earlier stints, but he's certainly been way better than AHL quality this time around.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Ruff is the biggest part of NJ Devils problems. Goaltending will improve with a better coached positional and accountable system in front of them. I have seen Jaques Lemaire take over the worst teams in Devils franchise and turn them into SC contenders.View attachment 535246

It's not the system, it's the goaltending. There has been plenty of analysis on this, and shot quality against is not the reason for the insane amount of goals against. If you think putting someone else behind the bench will solve the issues, nothing will change. It's the personnel in net.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Bahl actually looks like he could be good enough to make Graves expendable. Still way too small of a sample, but it’s promising. I’d much rather roll with the younger player than hand out 4+ million to Graves when he isn’t really that good.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

I said it was goaltending but feel better team management as well. The NJ Devils were very fair for keeping Ruff this long. I lived in BUF for 11 out of the 15 years he was coach there and never was impressed. Sometimes you have to change chemistry.

Jaques Lemaire was a classic example. Everyone thought the team was horrible until he came in and instilled a more organized and accountable game. Yes we need better goaltending. We have one of there worst records in the NHL and need help in many areas, I feel coaching is one of them.

 

[Devils731]

It's not the system, it's the goaltending. There has been plenty of analysis on this, and shot quality against is not the reason for the insane amount of goals against. If you think putting someone else behind the bench will solve the issues, nothing will change. It's the personnel in net.

You have to believe the equation is perfect to not leave open the possibility that the Devils system is bad in ways the shot quality algorithms don’t reflect.

Nobody thinks the equations are even close to perfect so there is room to discuss if the Devils defense is worse than the numbers suggest.

I tend to think the numbers don’t accurately reflect the quality the Devils give up, that the goalies are playing awful, and that goalies play worse with bad systems in front of them.

100%, IMO, the Devils overload defense gives up higher quality chances than the algorithms reflect. Some reasons, the Devils have defenders playing our position(i.e, asking wingers to cover the net constantly), the default positioning of the forwards collapsing on the slot which allows opponents to maintain possession too easily, the defenders give too much space to their opponents once the initial pressure is beat, and the Devils chase the puck so don’t end up in good box out positions relative to the defenders. Most of these items won’t reflect in the public algorithms.

 

[NJDevs26]

I can't say I'm surprised, unless you had tickets already why would anyone who has actually watched this team in the last month waste a beautiful afternoon watching this garbage.

I don't think that many people actually like top gun that much lol

Having tickets and wanting to use most of my remaining food and beverage credit lol…I’m going Friday as well cause I have club seats with a friend

 

[Bleedred]

It's not the system, it's the goaltending. There has been plenty of analysis on this, and shot quality against is not the reason for the insane amount of goals against. If you think putting someone else behind the bench will solve the issues, nothing will change. It's the personnel in net.

For what it's worth, the only thing that will keep any of Blackwood, Daws, Gillies or Hammond from winning my stoppable goal Vezina is the fact that none of them have/will have played 30 games in the NHL this year. And like the actual Vezina, the winner has to play WAY more than 30 games, even in the shortened seasons.

Now, my method is not perfect, because Kevin Lankinen and John Gibson (and I've REALLY BEEN anti-Gibson on here this year) don't look like BAD goalies in my format. Joonas Korpisalo hasn't either, while Elvis Merzlikins has looked BAD in my format while playing on the same team and also having a vastly higher save percentage in every single year.

Every goalie to play here this year other than Bernier I have for 35% of more goals stoppable. That's f***in pathetic. My league average is 28%. Wedgewood has been better than my league average, but I also clearly remember having him down for 5 of his 9 goals he allowed as a Devil this year as stoppable.

This is why I have little interest in seeing ANY goalie that played here this year get a second of ice time for the NHL Devils next year.

''Flaccid Wood will play Tuesday and Friday! How exciting!'', yeah, that's gonna keep my wood pretty flaccid, that's for sure. Big whoop!

 

[Guttersniped]

You have to believe the equation is perfect to not leave open the possibility that the Devils system is bad in ways the shot quality algorithms don’t reflect.

Nobody thinks the equations are even close to perfect so there is room to discuss if the Devils defense is worse than the numbers suggest.

I tend to think the numbers don’t accurately reflect the quality the Devils give up, that the goalies are playing awful, and that goalies play worse with bad systems in front of them.

100%, IMO, the Devils overload defense gives up higher quality chances than the algorithms reflect. Some reasons, the Devils have defenders playing our position(i.e, asking wingers to cover the net constantly), the default positioning of the forwards collapsing on the slot which allows opponents to maintain possession too easily, the defenders give too much space to their opponents once the initial pressure is beat, and the Devils chase the puck so don’t end up in good box out positions relative to the defenders. Most of these items won’t reflect in the public algorithms.

Well that’s Ruff’s system. It was known in Dallas for that too.

Team defense exists and certain teams have better ones or worse ones. I don’t think people disagree with that.

Take Columbus. The last 3 years have been three stages: 1) regular Torts 2) Lame duck, don’t give a shit Torts in a very weird COVID season 3) No defense in what was supposed to be a tank year where they over-performed in the win column.

That’s quite a journey.

How about their goalies? Elvis Merzlikins’ numbers went down this year but it makes sense in view of the onslaught.

Here he is in 2019-20:

He could have did better but his career low of .907 makes more sense in context. He’s not Hellybuyck, the Patron Saint of Shelled Goalies and someone who metrics show their team abusing him year after year. Helly actually had better defense then usual this season though and had a bit of a down year. That’s goalies for ya.

There are way more defensive minded systems than ours that haven’t made up for bad goaltending though. That’s because no system can save you from that. Take a look at Dubynk on the Wild in 2019-20.

That team was a goalie’s best friend and he still managed to have a .890 SV% and a .321% quality start % in 30 games. Sometimes you have to do your job as a NHL goalie and make some f***ing saves here.

Different goalies got different qualities of defense (both 5v5 & Shorthanded) because teams play better and worse in different aspects of the game throughout the season. Bad defense happens to goalies all the time. Bad patches of play happen to all goalies. We went through a uniquely bad experience with seven goalies though. I’m kind of over discussing it (other than in terms of the guys who are playing here in the future).

Hell, I don’t even want to bother discussing Ruff’s system that much anymore unless we know he’s back next season.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Well that’s Ruff’s system. It was known in Dallas for that too.

Team defense exists and certain teams have better ones or worse ones. I don’t think people disagree with that.

Take Columbus. The last 3 years have been three stages: 1) regular Torts 2) Lame duck, don’t give a shit Torts in a very weird COVID season 3) No defense in what was supposed to be a tank year where they over-performed in the win column.

View attachment 535440
View attachment 535439
View attachment 535441

That’s quite a journey.

How about their goalies? Elvis Merzlikins’ numbers went down this year but it makes sense in view of the onslaught.


View attachment 535446

Here he is in 2019-20:

View attachment 535447

He could have did better but his career low of .907 makes more sense in context. He’s not Hellybuyck, the Patron Saint of Shelled Goalies and someone who metrics show their team abusing him year after year. Helly actually had better defense then usual and had a bit of a down year. That’s goalies for ya.

There are way more defensive minded systems than ours that haven’t made up for bad goaltending though. That’s because no system can save you from that. Take a look at Dubynk on the Wild in 2019-20.
View attachment 535449

View attachment 535450

That team was a goalie’s best friend and he still managed to have a .890 SV% and a .321% quality start % in 30 games. Sometimes you have to do your job as a NHL goalie and make some f***ing saves here.

Different goalies got different qualities of defense (both 5v5 & Shorthanded) because teams play better and worse in different aspects of the game throughout the season. Bad defense happens to goalies all the time. Bad patches of play happen to all goalies. We went through a uniquely bad experience with seven goalies though. I’m kind of over discussing it (other than in terms of the guys who are playing here in the future).

Hell, I don’t even want to bother discussing Ruff’s system that much anymore unless we know he’s back next season.

I'm just guessing, but I think Ruff needs a great goalie to succeed. In the Sabres he had Dominik Hasek and Ryan Miller. In the Devils and the Stars he have had mediocre goalies who can't hide the flaws in his system. Of course his system has changed over time, but in his last two coaching gigs the defensive system has been a real weakness.