OT: Will women ever play in the NHL?

[Roughneck]

No.

I am saying that until there are well established womens junior leagues, and this includes broader youth programs as well, we won't see many women who are even good enough to make CHL teams. Ideally you would have women's leagues where the best players would be good enough to cross over to CHL/NCAA ect.

You're never going to get that. If women are going to play in the NHL, they're going to be playing men's hockey during their career. Not women's.

 

[InfinityIggy]

You're never going to get that. If women are going to play in the NHL, they're going to be playing men's hockey during their career. Not women's.

The progression of women's hockey over the past 20 years tells me youre incorrect.

 

[MarkGio]

The progression of women's hockey over the past 20 years tells me youre incorrect.

Women are currently playing in men's leagues?

 

[Beats By CoRD]

 

[InfinityIggy]

Women are currently playing in men's leagues?

Look at the growth of women's leagues over the last 20 years and compare it to the gap between top women's programs and mens programs.

If you do even a little research you will see the gap is becoming smaller. As this continues you'll see more women playing in men's leagues.

There weren't any women playing in mens leagues 20 years ago, now we see some especially in European leagues.

Its not a coincidence this has changed alongside the growth of women's leagues. If a woman is ever going to play in NHL, this trend will need to continue. Women aren't all of a sudden going to jump into men's leagues, there needs to be a stepping stone and that's what better women's leagues will do.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Women are too small in my opinion to hang with some NHL players.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Women are too small in my opinion to hang with some NHL players.

Genetics is a valid argument, but there are some women on Olympic teams that are bigger and heavier than some NHL players.

I think strength is the bigger factor.

 

[herashak]

there was a 6'3 girl goaltender on my friends team in midget AA last year.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

Women will never play in the NHL just like they will never play in the NFL, NBA or MLB. Not a sexist thing, just won't happen.

There will be a WNHL before that happens. And that will never happen.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Genetics is a valid argument, but there are some women on Olympic teams that are bigger and heavier than some NHL players.

I think strength is the bigger factor.

True. I think what I meant to say is your bottom statement. I mean, could Hilary Knight really compete with someone like PK Subban, or Mike Cammalleri strength wise?

though I bet she could compete with Johnny Gaudreau

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

there was a 6'3 girl goaltender on my friends team in midget AA last year.

I played against a girl this year and she was nowhere close to us in terms of strength. I felt bad for her because she threw up on the bench as one of our players completely lit her up open ice. And he was smaller than her.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Women will never play in the NHL just like they will never play in the NFL, NBA or MLB. Not a sexist thing, just won't happen.

There will be a WNHL before that happens. And that will never happen.

Forever is a long time..

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I agree, I think if we ever see a professional women's hockey league that would be the ultimate stepping stone. As of right now though, it seems unlikely although definitely not impossible.

 

[Noori]

Considering Team Canada regularly gets spanked by AAA teams, I highly, highly doubt it. Even a position like goaltending requires an unbelievable amount of leg strength to move side to side and at the absolute top level, it's not even close.

I do think we could possibly see women start to close the gender gap in places like scouting, management. It's clear you don't need to have played at the top level to still be a great hockey mind. I know Brian Burke is a huge proponent of women being involved in the NHL and I think we'll see it start to happen in the next 10-15 years.

Women on the ice? Not a chance.

 

[Roughneck]

Look at the growth of women's leagues over the last 20 years and compare it to the gap between top women's programs and mens programs.

In 2006, the National Women's Team went 10-12 against AAA Midget Teams.

In 2014 they went 12-19 against them.

The schedules are different (this year in particular the schedule was designed to by physically and mentally exhausting before heading into the pre-Olympic camp) so it would be unfair to say they have regressed, but the best women the country has to offer still wins less than 50% of the games they play against the best non-WHL/AJHL players Alberta has to offer aged 16-18 with no hitting.

The gap has closed (skill wise, this is without tackling the size issue) but you falsely assume that the progression wont level off as it has in other sports when comparing the men to the women.

There weren't any women playing in mens leagues 20 years ago, now we see some especially in European leagues.

What leagues are these, because they certainly aren't the men's pro leagues.

 

[Trae]

I could see a goalie, definitely, at least get some action one day. As for a forward or defenseman or something, let's see how Johnny Gaudreau's body handles it first, and then continue this discussion later.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I'm no anatomist, but my understanding is that, in addition to having less lean muscle mass for their size, women are at a fundamental structural disadvantage in physical activity explicitly due to being designed for birthing. I doubt we'll see a regular female player in the NHL, ever.

Yes, women are naturally more flexible than men (or it seems to be, in the average population) but we're talking about elite goaltenders, here. Have you seen how flexible these guys are? How much more flexible does someone need to be beyond being able to do a full split?

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume

 

[herashak]

I played against a girl this year and she was nowhere close to us in terms of strength. I felt bad for her because she threw up on the bench as one of our players completely lit her up open ice. And he was smaller than her.

what league are you in?

 

[tfong]

Its not even just about ability level. Physically they can't compete in an all mens league still. Its just the physiology right now.

I mean Wickenheiser is basically the best example there is. She is the female equivalent of Wayne Gretzky and even she couldn't cut it in the Third Tier Swedish league.

MVW: There is a pro womens league. Canadian Women's Hockey League (CWHL)

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

what league are you in?

I play in Pennsylvania in a competitive league. Lived in Calgary but moved here

 

[scoringmachine]

In basketball you have the NBA and the WNBA do you think their should be a WNHL (Womens National Hockey League). I think it could work.
The way I would start this is contact between 50 to 100 of the top women hockey players around the world and see how they would feel playing in their own professional league. Second if more than 50% agree the next step would be to talk to the NHL Hockey League. Why you may ask is that they are already an establish league and can help in the development of women hockey. They can first work with the women to help create its own WNHL board and create their first WNHL League contract. Then they can work with the NHL to help find investors to invest in the team and use already establish NHL arenas to play their games. Also work with the NHL to come up with a way for women to play in WHL, AHL, OHL, QMJHL, OHL and maybe any of their NHL teams affliate teams. To help in their development. If they then they can start with maybe 8 teams and see how women hockey is going before you expand. This idea I feel could be better than having women compete with men in the NHL as currently men in the NHL level play a more rougher game.

Just something to think about and if you like the idea of WNHL and have different idea on setting up the league please let me know but please do not go on a Bashing spree cause you don't the idea of WNHL.

 

[InfinityIggy]

In 2006, the National Women's Team went 10-12 against AAA Midget Teams.

In 2014 they went 12-19 against them.

The schedules are different (this year in particular the schedule was designed to by physically and mentally exhausting before heading into the pre-Olympic camp) so it would be unfair to say they have regressed, but the best women the country has to offer still wins less than 50% of the games they play against the best non-WHL/AJHL players Alberta has to offer aged 16-18 with no hitting.

The gap has closed (skill wise, this is without tackling the size issue) but you falsely assume that the progression wont level off as it has in other sports when comparing the men to the women.



What leagues are these, because they certainly aren't the men's pro leagues.

A 2 game sample size means absolutely zero. Really not worth commenting on. The fact they scored 10 and 12 goals in both games tells me about all I need to know about the games themselves. I am really not sure what the point is here, as I never said that the best group of female players in the world was better than any group men. My point is that the gap is shrinking.

You falsely assume that the difference is even close to the leveling off point, considering how small most women's leagues still are I would say there is still a lot of growth left ahead.

No, most of the examples are not men's professional leagues, most are semi-professional but I also never said they were pro leagues, so I am not sure what your point is there? Since google is beyond your reach here are some quickly found examples, there are lots, all these are pre 2008:

Hayley Wickenheiser - Salamat
Christine Duchamp - Hockey Club de Cergy-Pontoise
Michelle Karvinen, Rødovre and Finland's national team
Angela Riggerio - Tulsa Oilers
Molly McMaster played for Adirondack Frostbite, Missouri River Otters, Quad City Mallards, Richmond Riverdogs, Roanoke Valley Vipers, Rockford IceHogs, Danbury Trashers, Flint Generals, Motor City Mechanics and Port Huron Flags of the United Hockey League. (mostly a 'stunt').
Shannon Szabados - goalie played in mens leagues at various levels. Grant MacEwan College Griffins Mens Hockey
Viona Harrer - GK
Angela Taylor - One of the top scorers in the ENL
Claudia van Leeuwen was a back-up goalie with HYS The Hague

While most of these leagues are semi-pro or high level amateur clubs, if you look back more than 20 years, there are pretty much zero examples of this in any well recognized league.

 

[InfinityIggy]

In basketball you have the NBA and the WNBA do you think their should be a WNHL (Womens National Hockey League). I think it could work.
The way I would start this is contact between 50 to 100 of the top women hockey players around the world and see how they would feel playing in their own professional league. Second if more than 50% agree the next step would be to talk to the NHL Hockey League. Why you may ask is that they are already an establish league and can help in the development of women hockey. They can first work with the women to help create its own WNHL board and create their first WNHL League contract. Then they can work with the NHL to help find investors to invest in the team and use already establish NHL arenas to play their games. Also work with the NHL to come up with a way for women to play in WHL, AHL, OHL, QMJHL, OHL and maybe any of their NHL teams affliate teams. To help in their development. If they then they can start with maybe 8 teams and see how women hockey is going before you expand. This idea I feel could be better than having women compete with men in the NHL as currently men in the NHL level play a more rougher game.

Just something to think about and if you like the idea of WNHL and have different idea on setting up the league please let me know but please do not go on a Bashing spree cause you don't the idea of WNHL.

What you are talking about is essentially the Canadian Women's Hockey League.

 

[MarkGio]

I played against a girl this year and she was nowhere close to us in terms of strength. I felt bad for her because she threw up on the bench as one of our players completely lit her up open ice. And he was smaller than her.

Maybe she felt bad for you, playin' in a girl's league and all

 

[tfong]

Can't we all agree that if Wickenhesier can't even get to Swedish elite, that womens hockey is way way behind mens hockey?

Firstly its the pool of players, second is that there isn't as good of a developmental structure for junior female leagues.

Thirdly, physiology doesn't favor them in this current environment.