Will the Penguins use a compliance buyout?

[Mo Wanchuk]

Honestly who would take Scuderi on that contract? With his age, play, term and money owed. I almost think we would have to package him with something else of value to get rid of him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Honestly who would take Scuderi on that contract? With his age, play, term and money owed. I almost think we would have to package him with something else of value to get rid of him.

Maybe a team that is well below the salary floor and doesn't mind taking on salary just to reach that minimum? A team like the Islanders might see him as a worthwhile gamble, both to mentor the kids and to help them reach the salary floor.

It obviously wouldn't be much coming back. But at this point, just getting Scuderi's bad play as well as the cap space he's taking up off the roster is worth it, even if it's only for a 4th or 5th round pick or a 'C' level prospect.

 

[mpp9]

Winnipeg would take Fleury. The Islanders would take Scuds. I ain't worried about it.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'm probably alone on this opinion, but i think Scuderi will have a good year next year if he comes back with the pens, it was a small sample size, but he was good at the beginning of the year before he broke his ankle.

I know hes getting older now and its possible hes slowing down, but i think its more likely that it was just a bad year, Paul Martin also had one of those bad years with the pens.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I don't mind the Kunitz deal. He fits with Crosby or Malkin for a couple more years at a reasonable rate. The Dupuis and Scuderi deals were horrendous. Scuds is a bottom pairing defender making over 3 million and Dupuis is a bottom 6 player making close to 4. Awful.

Agreed. I'm in the same boat. Kunitz was terribad for most of this year, but I still think he'll fit, and I still think he can be an effective player if he's the 3rd wheel on a line.

I'll eat crow and say I thought the Scuderi signing had potential.

Dupuis' contract though...didn't like that cap hit or term the second I saw it. I never thought we were gonna be the team to pay him that. Just awful.

If we can't trade Fleury then use it on him. I really have no issue with him getting a lame duck season with us, his play this year and these playoffs wasn't anywhere near buyout bad, but if we're really being serious about blowing this roster up then he's bound to be one of the first on the chopping block.

Adams needs to be bought out regardless of what it does to our cap situation, he's not capable of being a NHL player anymore. Period.

I don't normally support the use of the word "period" after statements, but getting rid of Adams is such a universally accepted thing to say goddamnit I'll support it.

Winnipeg would take Fleury. The Islanders would take Scuds. I ain't worried about it.

But who will take Dupuis? Who will take Dupuis!?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm probably alone on this opinion, but i think Scuderi will have a good year next year if he comes back with the pens, it was a small sample size, but he was good at the beginning of the year before he broke his ankle.

I know hes getting older now and its possible hes slowing down, but i think its more likely that it was just a bad year, Paul Martin also had one of those bad years with the pens.

I agree with this to a degree. I think he'll be better in a system that isn't designed to make his life hell and I question how his ankle was after the injury, so that could improve over the off season. His confidence probably took a hit and he's an older guy who got injured and doesn't fit the system, an improvement is reasonable.

He doesn't fit with Martin, imo. My biggest issue with Martin was that there was no reason for him to be that bad, he had and has all the tools to be good. That's why he had such an improvement, and he was younger. Scuderi doesn't, he's a bad skater and he's bad with the puck, those are disadvantages. He's also older. I think Bylsma's system is horrible on defensemen, but Scuderi won't have anything like that turn around even with a new system.

I would still move him if I could.

But who will take Dupuis? Who will take Dupuis!?

Someone wanting to hit the floor coupled with part of a larger trade? That's probably the best chance. Probably the worst contract. A speedster in his mid thirties blew out his knee, and on top of it he's a third liner treated as a 1st liner. All for 3.75M for 3 more years.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm probably alone on this opinion, but i think Scuderi will have a good year next year if he comes back with the pens, it was a small sample size, but he was good at the beginning of the year before he broke his ankle.


I know hes getting older now and its possible hes slowing down, but i think its more likely that it was just a bad year, Paul Martin also had one of those bad years with the pens.

Scuderi was less bad at the start of the year, but he wasn't good. I just don't see him being worth having around blocking the young guys even if he turns things around a little bit. He will never be a good skater and he will never be able to handle a puck, so even if he's playing solid defense he will be a bad option for the top 4 defense behind Sid and Geno. And he's making too much to be worth having as a 3rd pairing guy over one of the young guys.

Then again, I was against signing him in the first place.

 

[iamjs]

Fleury is still a problem, if you're fixing things he goes. Get what you can for him and move on.

and the question again is "if not Fleury, who?"

Do you leave the keys to the team with Zatkoff, who has never started more than 50 games in a season? Vokoun will be 38 in about a month or so, and to even put him in a 1A/1B situation with Zatkoff might be a bit much. Even looking through WBS, I don't see an answer. Hartzell put up average numbers (10-8-1, 2.48, .902), Mannino and Jeff D-D are AHL 4 Life, and although Matt Murray put up some good numbers with the Soo Greyhounds (32-11-6, .921), I don't know the likelihood of him becoming the starter as a 20 year old.

 

[zero8771]

We could find a taker for Scuderi in a trade

 

[zero8771]

Maybe a team that is well below the salary floor and doesn't mind taking on salary just to reach that minimum? A team like the Islanders might see him as a worthwhile gamble, both to mentor the kids and to help them reach the salary floor.

It obviously wouldn't be much coming back. But at this point, just getting Scuderi's bad play as well as the cap space he's taking up off the roster is worth it, even if it's only for a 4th or 5th round pick or a 'C' level prospect.

There would obviously be takers for Scuderi. Just because every forum on HFBoards doesn't want him, plenty of teams would.

He'd be better in a slower system, and his experience is worth a lot to some teams. That said... get him the hell off the penguins

 

[wgknestrick]

If we can't trade Fleury then use it on him. I really have no issue with him getting a lame duck season with us, his play this year and these playoffs wasn't anywhere near buyout bad, but if we're really being serious about blowing this roster up then he's bound to be one of the first on the chopping block.


Adams needs to be bought out regardless of what it does to our cap situation, he's not capable of being a NHL player anymore. Period.

This. I still think the players have quit for MAF too. I don't remember them blowing up emotionally once TV got in net for them last year. (I fully admit my mind is not the best data storage medium too, and may be wrong).

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think that we could trade suds for a 4th or 5th overall pick

 

[Gold Diamond]

Fleury was a cup-winning goaltender before he got Bylsma'd. Look at his play from 06-09 and then 09-14. The question is: can he be repaired? Perhaps. But it might need to be somewhere else.

 

[66877168]

Fleury allowed 14 goals in 7 games. He wasn't spectacular, but he wasn't the problem. Let's focus on ares that are.

Goals allowed is a bit misleading when looking at Fleury's stats. His save percentage in the playoffs and in the last 3 games of the Rangers series is sub championship caliber to say the least. If you want another cup, you need a goaltender that doesn't give up soft goals nearly every night. It's not working with Fleury, a change of scenery couldn't hurt at this point. I'd love to see Miller here, Halak would be an improvement as well. If Vokoun is healthy, could make for a decent goaltending situation.

 

[Captain Hook]

Dejan said the 14 goals allowed in a series is the fewest ever for a Penguins goalie. I'd have to imagine that means in a 7 game series. I haven't checked the numbers myself. Still, the type of goals allowed were disturbing. The two backhand goals from horrible angles that somehow beat him short side are just inexcusable and of course the one where he failed to cover the puck and it wound up in the net. He's still just too erratic for my liking.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Every goalie, at times, lets in bad goals. Fleury was not the problem this post-season.

This idiot team scoring 1 freaking goal per game in 3 chances to advance is what did them in.

Good teams find ways to win. Bad teams find ways to lose.

This team is bad, and has been for the past 5 years.

 

[pensfansince88]

they wouldn't even get rid of bylsma. everybody stays! family > winning

 

[Captain Hook]

I completely agree that every goalie gives up bad goals at times. Fleury just seems to do it more consistently than anybody else, especially out of the guys making the kind of money he's making.

I think he's a mediocre goalie. He wasn't the biggest culprit in our playoff loss to the Rangers but that doesn't mean we should be content with paying him 5 million per year when we can find a cheaper mediocre goalie elsewhere and use the cap savings on other needs.

 

[cassius]

If you don't think Fleury is part of our problems for the past 5 years.. then you clearly do not watch the games.

 

[wgknestrick]

MAF is probably the #1 problem with this team.

Shero lost his job because he could not recognize that. Bylsma will probably too.

I don't understand how he, (MAF) is so entrenched inside this team. I fear it may be due to Mario and their French Canadian upbringings (because I can see no other logical reason). Anyone that has an unbiased and objective view on making the team better has to view him as THE biggest problem for their shortcomings.

No other starting goaltender lets in the type of goals he does AT the frequency that he does. It is not his "mind", it is not his game preparation, it is not his "pads", it is not his "coach", or any other peripheral excuse it has been blamed on in the pass. It is "him" and his well below average technique that is source of every one of his problems. The team keeps on THINKING that he is a naturally "good" goaltender that has some minor "flaw" that needs fixed.

He will never be a top tier goaltender because his technique relative to his peers is well below average. He cannot control his rebounds, keep from flopping on the ice after the first shot, properly follow the puck with players in front of him, or play the puck with any kind of consistency. If you don't see these things with him then I don't know what else to say other than focus on OTHER goaltenders around the league when you watch the games. In summary, he is not a goaltender with the technique that would ever cause him to be drafted #1 overall. That draft choice was a huge mistake that this team cannot ever put behind itself as a mistake. He NEVER had the junior SV% numbers to back up that decision.

 

[wgknestrick]

Agreed. I'm in the same boat. Kunitz was terribad for most of this year, but I still think he'll fit, and I still think he can be an effective player if he's the 3rd wheel on a line.

There are only 20 forwards that evidently aren't "terribad" to you in the NHL?

in pts/min:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...s&minutes=1000&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

or 17 forwards in GF%
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

or 27 forwards in SF%
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...000&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

We all get frustrated with his play sometimes, but he was anything but terribad this year, and he makes very little salary compared to his "peers". I dont' see how anyone can have higher expectations from him. The entire team underperformed in this year's playoffs (outside of Malkin).

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I've always really, really liked Kunitz, despite his often-frustrating stretches of play where he looks like Tanner Glass. Which, unfortunately, seemed to come at the very beginning and very end of this past season.

I do really think we're at the point where it's time to start thinking about a post-Kunitz Penguins lineup, though. I look at him as a prime candidate to move soon before his value bottoms out. Not right away... just... soon.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

MAF is probably the #1 problem with this team.

Shero lost his job because he could not recognize that. Bylsma will probably too.

I don't understand how he, (MAF) is so entrenched inside this team. I fear it may be due to Mario and their French Canadian upbringings (because I can see no other logical reason). Anyone that has an unbiased and objective view on making the team better has to view him as THE biggest problem for their shortcomings.

No other starting goaltender lets in the type of goals he does AT the frequency that he does. It is not his "mind", it is not his game preparation, it is not his "pads", it is not his "coach", or any other peripheral excuse it has been blamed on in the pass. It is "him" and his well below average technique that is source of every one of his problems. The team keeps on THINKING that he is a naturally "good" goaltender that has some minor "flaw" that needs fixed.

He will never be a top tier goaltender because his technique relative to his peers is well below average. He cannot control his rebounds, keep from flopping on the ice after the first shot, properly follow the puck with players in front of him, or play the puck with any kind of consistency. If you don't see these things with him then I don't know what else to say other than focus on OTHER goaltenders around the league when you watch the games. In summary, he is not a goaltender with the technique that would ever cause him to be drafted #1 overall. That draft choice was a huge mistake that this team cannot ever put behind itself as a mistake. He NEVER had the junior SV% numbers to back up that decision.

I just don't know.

I hated Bylsma's system. I have also seen guys go on to be much better playing for others. Guys who carped upon leaving about Bylsma.

I would like to see at least until the trade deadline what several players, including Fleury and Scuderi, under another coach and another system.

 

[66871]

I'd be surprised if Fleury can't be moved. His regular season number are very good and he could help a team that is on the bubble get to the playoffs. And I would think there has to be at least one GM out there who is looking at the coming season as one in which he must make the playoffs (or lose his job).

If we can't find any takers for him, I would not be in a huge rush to buy him out. I understand why folks want him gone but that $5 million has to come from somewhere.

If you are taking the 5 mil from player salary then you are limiting the team's ability to lock up the pieces it needs over the long term. And if you take it from somewhere else you are hurting another part of hockey ops (scouting, coaching data analysis, whatever).

Part of why this team is where it is right now is that it survived for six years on deadline day sugar-highs. We need to play the long game and that includes not wasting cap space/cash on buying out a guy who is going to be gone in a year anyway.

The only way I see a logical reason to buy him out is if a new GM comes in and really wants to sign somebody specific and we simply have to make room.

I think buyouts are largely the fantasies of angry fans (no offense guys but they are talked about way more than they are actually used). So realistically I think if Fleury can't be traded, he's here for his last year.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Worst case scenerio, if we do not see huge improvement by the deadline, only a couple million will be left on his contract, move him then.

But let's see Fleury under a new coach and system, especially if it is one like Trotz.