Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[EN4CER]

Not sure if this was posted, but not seeing too many people talking about it. Forget Dregger. You all gotta listen to Elliott Friedman's conversation with Blundell this morning on The Fan 590. It's a good 20 minutes of some very interesting talk. After hearing it, I really believe Stammer is coming home.

Scroll down to where is writes "Listen: Elliott Friedman talks potential Stamkos scenarios"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/lightning-faced-with-numerous-stamkos-trade-possibilities/

 

[Suntouchable13]

Not sure if this was posted, but not seeing too many people talking about it. Forget Dregger. You all gotta listen to Elliott Friedman's conversation with Blundell this morning on The Fan 590. It's a good 20 minutes of some very interesting talk. After hearing it, I really believe Stammer is coming home.

Scroll down to where is writes "Listen: Elliott Friedman talks potential Stamkos scenarios"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/lightning-faced-with-numerous-stamkos-trade-possibilities/

See, some people are saying he is coming here. Some people are saying that chances are slim to none. Bottom line is, nobody knows squat.

 

[jrgtml67]

I laughed at dreger's column today, saying the chance is slim. The reason is; our chance of getting babcock was just as slim. Bobby Mac, had even said 2 days prior to us signing him there was no chance of us getting him. The same will be true for Stamkos.

First will he be traded? If so then it would probably have to include this years first pick, which at this stage of the rebuild I dont think it would be worth it. Though we are huge sellers so may be a chance we include some extra players that in the past we wouldnt have budged on.

If he goes UFA (i doubt this because if stevie Y gets nothing for him his job more than likely would be done for) the question would be; does he want the lime light? and is he ok with the taxation on his pay vs going to a team in the states.

Either way the ball is in Stammer's court. The media interviews to me mean zilch. What is he supposed to say? Yes I liked the leafs tweets (for example). He is being professional, and saying what he should be saying (unlike drouin). If you recall even Ryan Kesler said all the right things in Vancouver, when asked if there was an issue with him and the organization. Same with Bobby Lu.

My guess is this; with Tampa in the hunt for the playoffs, there is no way he goes at deadline day, unless the payment is stupid high. It would make no sense for him to go on d day with Tampa's current position in the standings. So that leaves the draft. That makes the most sense, the price will still be high BUT if I am an NHL GM, I would consider this; Yzerman either gets nothing and he goes UFA or he comes down a bit and we get him. So therefore any GM that would even try to get him before the draft (unless Tampa completely falls off the earth in the standings) would wait.

If we dont get him, I'm not really worried either. People have to realise it may indeed cost us this years first which is looking like a for sure top 5 pick; matthews, laine, puljaarvi, tkchachuk, chychurn,

So do we part with much younger high end talent? For a guy who will be just past his peak? I would say no. To me this would go against what Shanny, Lou, and Babs have been preaching. Stay the course and no quick fixes. Now if it's our 2017 first that makes more sense as we have no clue how high that pick would be..could it be higher than this years? YES but could it be outside the top ten? YES...think about who we have coming, Nylander, Marner, Zaitsev (maybe) Brown, Percy, Sosh...the tale of the tape is still a bit early however. With a ton of young talent coming up..who will be the vets (Komarov, JVR, Reilly) if we can get some balance next year with the young guns, and vets maybe we do finish outside the top 10 in the draft..or next year could be worse, considering our goalie situation is still up in the air.

Anyway the next two weeks will be interesting, and will give us more direction. Last year I believe it was 2weeks to 1.5 weeks from deadline day, trades were lighting up twitter, and d day, not much till the last couple hours. I expect the same. In the after math we may find out more clearly about our goaltending, Reimer or Bernier out..just how many one year guys we let go and who and for what. Either way its an exciting time to be a leaf fan.

 

[notdoneyet]

Here is my two cents
Yzerman knows he doesn't have the cap to keep stamkos
But he is not trading him before a playoff run this year

Stamkos is a true professional and he knows he is going to
Free agency and a good chance that is Toronto

He tells yzerman through his agent he is open for a trade for his rights
After the playoffs and again this could be Toronto

The reason for this is his loyalty for Tampa and he has a good
Playoff run

Tampa gets something for losing him and stamkos keeps the fans happy

As far as when we can win with him

Just as an example we sign him
Sign okposo as free agent
Add a very good pick this year
Nylander
Marner

Maybe
Vesey


Jvr stamkos marner
Laine nylander okposo
Komarov kadri vesey

That's a good start

 

[jrgtml67]

In a small addition. The reason I dont like the article is because of the negativity. People wonder why a lot of leaf fans are bi polar. It's the fans who put all their stock in listening to TV or Radio. These guys say things to get ratings. To say it again, its too hard to say whether we will get Stamkos. If it were via trade he would have to waive, I think he would. As well I dont see Yzerman letting him walk, so therefore the choice is solely on Stamkos to waive AND will Lou pony up? Lastly again, do we want to give up this years 1st OV? If we get him without using that I'm good, if not then I dont want him.

 

[Stephen]

I think if he's a deadline acquisition for the Leafs the return for Tampa is going to be pretty modest. Like Dion Phaneuf modest. B Prospect and a non first rounder. Just so Tampa has something to show for a guy walking as a UFA and Stammer gets his 8th year.

 

[Gabriel426]

If it is a deal before July 1. I think I will send Lupul, 2nd rounder and someone like Carrick or Hyman. And I think that is already a bit generous. If they don't take Lupul, it will be a 4th rounder plus a Carrick and Hyman.

 

[Pookie]

right?

Respectfully, if a player has their name engraved on the Stanley Cup that's their legacy.

A testament to achieving something with a group of guys you will be forever bonded to. Something the majority of NHL players have never achieved.

Wayne Gretzky wanted to play in Toronto. The deal was nixed by ownership.

I don't think he puts an asterisk around his Cups in Edmonton do you?

Does Ray Bourque think less of his Cup because it didn't happen in Boston?

Winning a Cup in Toronto would be special for us. For players, winning a Cup.. anywhere.. is special because it is the freaking Stanley Cup.

Objectivity would be nice wouldn't it?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Respectfully, if a player has their name engraved on the Stanley Cup that's their legacy.

A testament to achieving something with a group of guys you will be forever bonded to. Something the majority of NHL players have never achieved.

Wayne Gretzky wanted to play in Toronto. The deal was nixed by ownership.

I don't think he puts an asterisk around his Cups in Edmonton do you?

Does Ray Bourque think less of his Cup because it didn't happen in Boston?

Winning a Cup in Toronto would be special for us. For players, winning a Cup.. anywhere.. is special because it is the freaking Stanley Cup.

Objectivity would be nice wouldn't it?

And I would argue that had ownership had the sense to sign Gretzky in 1995, and had he won a Cup in Toronto, it would have meant just a bit more to him than his previous Cups with Edmonton because of his childhood. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

It's certainly not uncommon for marquee players in all professional sports to elect to play in their hometown when they hit free agency, regardless if the club is a championship contender.

A recent example in the NHL is Zach Parise.

 

[Pookie]

And I would argue that had ownership had the sense to sign Gretzky in 1995, and had he won a Cup in Toronto, it would have meant just a bit more to him than his previous Cups with Edmonton because of his childhood. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

It's certainly not uncommon for marquee players in all professional sports to elect to play in their hometown when they hit free agency, regardless if the club is a championship contender.

A recent example in the NHL is Zach Parise.

Sooooo assuming then that all players want to put asterisks as "not as special" since it wasn't in their hometown, we are still left with the following choices:

1. Win a Cup before your career is over

Or

2. Play in Toronto

Or

3. Play in Toronto and win a Cup here.

I suppose there is the chance of winning a Cup in Toronto in 7 years... 3 of which will be his prime years. Just need all those rookies and unnamed players in trades to pan out right? Find a 1C (if he plays wing) or find a 1W if he plays C. Find a 1-2D. Find a goalie. Just a couple of things really.

But yeah, like Jim Carey, I'm saying there's a chance.

 

[Pookie]

Burke and Stamkos?

5 potential trade destinations for Stamkos: Mike Johnston

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...eafs-red-wings-sabres-avalanche-ducks-flames/

 

[Gary Nylund]

Normally, you have solid arguments but saying winning a Cup in TO is the same as say TB is way off. Just like KC winning the WS was great and the city love each players...but if the Yanks is to win one, it is on another level.

Local boy or not, it has more to do with the team he cheers and loves since childhood. It doesn't matter where you lived....Heck, isn't Subban a Habs fan even though he lived in TO all his life. Beside, I only visited Milan, Italy, twice in my lifetime, but due to my dad, I am a die hard Milan fans even if they are as crap as they are now. Trust me, if you think the Leafs had trouble with Burke and others running the show before, try having an owner like Berlu and a CEO like Galliani.

Lastly, you can't count this yr as Year 1, actually, we will never know when is Year 1 till Leafs win the Cup. Since I doubted any team would go, this is Year 1 of our Cup run.... When we look back at the Hawks, some say drafting Keith was Year 1, some say being out of the playoffs, some say it was drafting Kane.....it all depends on when they win the Cup. If the Leafs win the Cup say in 2018, while Bozak is still around and is the longest serving Leafs, would Year 1 be the year that Leafs signed Bozak?

Absolutely a title with NY is >>> a title with KC for someone who grew up in NY as a Yankee fan. Same with a kid growing up in Boston as a Celtics fan or in LA as a Lakers fan, sure winning a title anywhere is awesome and talk about asterisks beside the titles is of course ridiculous but the fact is, victory in your hometown in one of the "capital" cities for the sport is just so much sweeter.

Respectfully, if a player has their name engraved on the Stanley Cup that's their legacy.

A testament to achieving something with a group of guys you will be forever bonded to. Something the majority of NHL players have never achieved.

Wayne Gretzky wanted to play in Toronto. The deal was nixed by ownership.

I don't think he puts an asterisk around his Cups in Edmonton do you?

Does Ray Bourque think less of his Cup because it didn't happen in Boston?

Winning a Cup in Toronto would be special for us. For players, winning a Cup.. anywhere.. is special because it is the freaking Stanley Cup.

Objectivity would be nice wouldn't it?

Yes, a cup in Boston would have meant more to Bourque. He hasn't told me so personally and he'd never say it publicly out of respect for his teammates but it's pretty obvious IMO.

You're basically saying that people don't see this the same way you do aren't being objective. Buddy can you spare some ego?

 

[MJ65]

I am not too sure about this Stamkos deal - I mean if have to sign him for 7-8 years @ $11-12 M as some broadcasters are suggesting - I would be hesitant

 

[Daisy Jane]

Respectfully, if a player has their name engraved on the Stanley Cup that's their legacy.

A testament to achieving something with a group of guys you will be forever bonded to. Something the majority of NHL players have never achieved.

Wayne Gretzky wanted to play in Toronto. The deal was nixed by ownership.

I don't think he puts an asterisk around his Cups in Edmonton do you?

Does Ray Bourque think less of his Cup because it didn't happen in Boston?

Winning a Cup in Toronto would be special for us. For players, winning a Cup.. anywhere.. is special because it is the freaking Stanley Cup.

Objectivity would be nice wouldn't it?

well, respectfully, I think winning something major like a championship means more when it's in your hometown. For example - winning Olympic gold. - Crosby said it himself - you always imagine playing for your country and winning is amazing, but it's just something else when you do it at home.

That doesn't diminish Crosby's second gold medal in Sochi 4 years later, but I would imagine, that the 2010 gold medal is a touch more special - than the Sochi gold medal. (Alex Bibeau and Kallie Humphries have stated the same thing, and Clara Hughes - the most decorated Canadian athlete ever - mentioned how it would have been amazing to defend her gold medal at home).

So I would have to imagine, to bring this to Hockey - growing up as a specific fan of a team, you would imagine how it would be that you'd win a cup for that team. and if you were making a sales pitch - you could tug on that heart strings.

I mean. Shanahan. who has world junior gold, olympic gold, world championship gold, 3 cups, and is a hall of famer, flat out stated that helping Toronto achieve a stanley cup would be the biggest accomplishment in his hockey career, because he's from here, and he knows what it would mean to the city, his family, and to himself.

So. yes.
I would reckon for some - winning a cup for your favourite team - or the team you grew up idolizing, would/could mean just a little bit more - than just winning a cup. It does't trump it, it doesn't put an asterisk beside it, but for a Toronto born player, who wanted to play for the Leafs, wanted to be drafted by the Leafs (his words), was surprised that no team offered him an offersheet, and he was expecting one too (his words) - would like to help that team win a cup and it would mean just a bit more than him winning a cup somewhere else.

but it was like what Gary said, if you had to ask that, you're not really going to agree with any explanation given to you.

 

[garce]

well, respectfully, I think winning something major like a championship means more when it's in your hometown. For example - winning Olympic gold. - Crosby said it himself - you always imagine playing for your country and winning is amazing, but it's just something else when you do it at home.

That doesn't diminish Crosby's second gold medal in Sochi 4 years later, but I would imagine, that the 2010 gold medal is a touch more special - than the Sochi gold medal. (Alex Bibeau and Kallie Humphries have stated the same thing, and Clara Hughes - the most decorated Canadian athlete ever - mentioned how it would have been amazing to defend her gold medal at home).

So I would have to imagine, to bring this to Hockey - growing up as a specific fan of a team, you would imagine how it would be that you'd win a cup for that team. and if you were making a sales pitch - you could tug on that heart strings.

I mean. Shanahan. who has world junior gold, olympic gold, world championship gold, 3 cups, and is a hall of famer, flat out stated that helping Toronto achieve a stanley cup would be the biggest accomplishment in his hockey career, because he's from here, and he knows what it would mean to the city, his family, and to himself.

So. yes.
I would reckon for some - winning a cup for your favourite team - or the team you grew up idolizing, would/could mean just a little bit more - than just winning a cup. It does't trump it, it doesn't put an asterisk beside it, but for a Toronto born player, who wanted to play for the Leafs, wanted to be drafted by the Leafs (his words), was surprised that no team offered him an offersheet, and he was expecting one too (his words) - would like to help that team win a cup and it would mean just a bit more than him winning a cup somewhere else.

but it was like what Gary said, if you had to ask that, you're not really going to agree with any explanation given to you.

Right, and while you can certainly dine off winning Cups in Tampa, Carolina and even LA for the rest of your life, if you Captain the Leafs to a Cup you are going to be rich beyond any current contract value
multiple times over. A native of the GTA? Limitless.

 

[Clark4Ever]

well, respectfully, I think winning something major like a championship means more when it's in your hometown. For example - winning Olympic gold. - Crosby said it himself - you always imagine playing for your country and winning is amazing, but it's just something else when you do it at home.

That doesn't diminish Crosby's second gold medal in Sochi 4 years later, but I would imagine, that the 2010 gold medal is a touch more special - than the Sochi gold medal. (Alex Bibeau and Kallie Humphries have stated the same thing, and Clara Hughes - the most decorated Canadian athlete ever - mentioned how it would have been amazing to defend her gold medal at home).

So I would have to imagine, to bring this to Hockey - growing up as a specific fan of a team, you would imagine how it would be that you'd win a cup for that team. and if you were making a sales pitch - you could tug on that heart strings.

I mean. Shanahan. who has world junior gold, olympic gold, world championship gold, 3 cups, and is a hall of famer, flat out stated that helping Toronto achieve a stanley cup would be the biggest accomplishment in his hockey career, because he's from here, and he knows what it would mean to the city, his family, and to himself.

So. yes.
I would reckon for some - winning a cup for your favourite team - or the team you grew up idolizing, would/could mean just a little bit more - than just winning a cup. It does't trump it, it doesn't put an asterisk beside it, but for a Toronto born player, who wanted to play for the Leafs, wanted to be drafted by the Leafs (his words), was surprised that no team offered him an offersheet, and he was expecting one too (his words) - would like to help that team win a cup and it would mean just a bit more than him winning a cup somewhere else.

but it was like what Gary said, if you had to ask that, you're not really going to agree with any explanation given to you.

Never mind Daisy. It's all in our imagination.

 

[Crysis]

I am not too sure about this Stamkos deal - I mean if have to sign him for 7-8 years @ $11-12 M as some broadcasters are suggesting - I would be hesitant

I have more faith in this management team than to pay ANYONE that much.

I'd have no problem with having a $8 million individual player cap on the team. This organization has so much to offer players both off and on the ice. World class facilities, trainers, coaching, tons of opportunities for making BIG bank doing promotions, etc.

If you don't want to come to T.O. and make your 8 million salary + your 2 million(or more) from promoting then take a hike. Seriously. People act like these guys can make the same additional money in every other market....

Offer Stamkos $8 million per for 6 years.

 

[garyjones93]

I have more faith in this management team than to pay ANYONE that much.

I'd have no problem with having a $8 million individual player cap on the team. This organization has so much to offer players both off and on the ice. World class facilities, trainers, coaching, tons of opportunities for making BIG bank doing promotions, etc.

If you don't want to come to T.O. and make your 8 million salary + your 2 million(or more) from promoting then take a hike. Seriously. People act like these guys can make the same additional money in every other market....

Offer Stamkos $8 million per for 6 years.

Tam[a offered 8.5 .... I think 9.1m is the least we go. Unless he wanted to take a hometown discount (arguably 9.1 could be a discount)

 

[Crysis]

Tam[a offered 8.5 .... I think 9.1m is the least we go.

He can't make 25% as much in Tampa doing promotions like he could here. He would actually make more money over all, before taxes, by signing here for 8 million.

I'd actually prefer they don't sign him at all at this part of the rebuild, in 3/4 years it would be great. But if they are gonna sign him don't be stupid about it.

 

[Faltorvo]

I am not too sure about this Stamkos deal - I mean if have to sign him for 7-8 years @ $11-12 M as some broadcasters are suggesting - I would be hesitant

trade for him AND cap hit at 11/12m


ummm pass

 

[slozo]

Question:

A lot of discussion has gone on about how Stamkos' production has fallen off the last two years, with two factors being cited as proof, basically co-existing at the same time - after the leg injury, and after the loss of his superstar linemate St. Louis. But is there a 3rd issue?

When, exactly, did coach switch Stammer from centre to wing? Was it SHORTLY after the departure of St.Louis, or after a mini-slump, or . . . ?

I'm not familiar enough with TB to know and would love to find out the exact details.

 

[Menzinger]

I think Stamkos'' bank account will be a much bigger factor than either competitiveness or a home town connection.

Sports stars are egotists and will think they can turn any team into a contender. And he can always keep spending his summers in Toronto.

The Leafs will get him if they offer him the most cash.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

If it is a deal before July 1. I think I will send Lupul, 2nd rounder and someone like Carrick or Hyman. And I think that is already a bit generous. If they don't take Lupul, it will be a 4th rounder plus a Carrick and Hyman.

Tampa face cap problems next year & the year after. Really doubt Lupul is involved.

 

[Pookie]

well, respectfully, I think winning something major like a championship means more when it's in your hometown. For example - winning Olympic gold. - Crosby said it himself - you always imagine playing for your country and winning is amazing, but it's just something else when you do it at home.

That doesn't diminish Crosby's second gold medal in Sochi 4 years later, but I would imagine, that the 2010 gold medal is a touch more special - than the Sochi gold medal. (Alex Bibeau and Kallie Humphries have stated the same thing, and Clara Hughes - the most decorated Canadian athlete ever - mentioned how it would have been amazing to defend her gold medal at home).

So I would have to imagine, to bring this to Hockey - growing up as a specific fan of a team, you would imagine how it would be that you'd win a cup for that team. and if you were making a sales pitch - you could tug on that heart strings.

I mean. Shanahan. who has world junior gold, olympic gold, world championship gold, 3 cups, and is a hall of famer, flat out stated that helping Toronto achieve a stanley cup would be the biggest accomplishment in his hockey career, because he's from here, and he knows what it would mean to the city, his family, and to himself.

So. yes.
I would reckon for some - winning a cup for your favourite team - or the team you grew up idolizing, would/could mean just a little bit more - than just winning a cup. It does't trump it, it doesn't put an asterisk beside it, but for a Toronto born player, who wanted to play for the Leafs, wanted to be drafted by the Leafs (his words), was surprised that no team offered him an offersheet, and he was expecting one too (his words) - would like to help that team win a cup and it would mean just a bit more than him winning a cup somewhere else.

but it was like what Gary said, if you had to ask that, you're not really going to agree with any explanation given to you.

I see.

Well let's assume all of that is true. And he has this major bond with Toronto.

You mentioned Shanahan's Sales Pitch.

Can we agree then that if the Cup in Toronto is the goal, that Shanahan will have to sell him on how this last place team, whose 2016 draft pick won't crack the roster till 2018, has any chance at all of winning a Cup in 7 years?

Isn't the most probable decision for Stamkos to decide between a chance at a Cup and a chance to play in Toronto where there most likely won't be a cup?

I would think he would choose chance at the Cup vs Toronto.

It's probably more likely that he could win a Cup in Toronto after 7 years are over. So why not sign here then and take a few victory laps as Gretzky wanted to do?

Sign your next contract where you have the best chance to win, then sign your retirement contract with the Leafs where you will have a much, much better idea as to whether the rebuild was working?

 

[Daisy Jane]

I see.

Well let's assume all of that is true. And he has this major bond with Toronto.

You mentioned Shanahan's Sales Pitch.

Can we agree then that if the Cup in Toronto is the goal, that Shanahan will have to sell him on how this last place team, whose 2016 draft pick won't crack the roster till 2018, has any chance at all of winning a Cup in 7 years?

Isn't the most probable decision for Stamkos to decide between a chance at a Cup and a chance to play in Toronto where there most likely won't be a cup?

I would think he would choose chance at the Cup vs Toronto.

It's probably more likely that he could win a Cup in Toronto after 7 years are over. So why not sign here then and take a few victory laps as Gretzky wanted to do?

Sign your next contract where you have the best chance to win, then sign your retirement contract with the Leafs where you will have a much, much better idea as to whether the rebuild was working?

unless he wanted to be part of the solution?
I don't know. what I do know is is that everyone and their mother were saying how Babcock would never sign in Toronto, he would want to sign somewhere else to guarantee his best chances of winning and surpassing Bowman as Greatest Coach Ever.

and yet, Babcock chose to come here and help make Toronto great and help bring a championship here.

So maybe Stamkos just doesn't want to do a victory lap? Depending on what is being said, maybe he'll want to be part of the whole cornerstone thing too. You can't just assume that the 2016 pick won't play on the team (if Matthews/Laine/Pulju are drafted, they easily could make the roster next year. (I mean - it wouldn't surprise me either way, but you can't just assume they won't). You're assuming that the Leafs aren't going to trade for some pieces (they have to - they don't have a team past next year - and they're not going to qualify everyone), to help the team be better.

and as i've stated - there's no guarantee that signing with a "better team with a better chance to win." gets Stamkos a cup any faster than being with the worst team in the NHL

but. we will see what happens. Again. I am of the volition that Stamkos will stay with Tampa. however - if he's not signed + with the cap going down by 4 million, there aren't a lot of teams out there who can afford him without having to trade some significant assets to make it work.

We do.