Lanny MacDonald*
Guest
scaredsensfan said:People cheer for their team BECAUSE of the players.
So if the Ottawa Senators were to see their plane crash and everyone die you'd stop being an Ottawa Senator's fan?
scaredsensfan said:People cheer for their team BECAUSE of the players.
Sorry I don't watch hockey for any one single team and/or franchise. I cheer for the best players on earth...whether they play in the NHL or not. If the NHL uses replacement players or anything below skill-wise to what the majority of the NHLPA are, then there are other forms of entertainment to enjoy.CalgaryThrasher said:People cheer for their team, their franchise, not individual players.
scaredsensfan said:People cheer for their team BECAUSE of the players.
Coolburn said:If the NHL uses replacement players or anything below skill-wise to what the majority of the NHLPA are, then there are other forms of entertainment to enjoy.
Don't worry there are already plenty of others heading off to the "other" entertainment...and even more when the season gets cancelled. No longer will the NHL be considered part of the big 4 sports, like they can even be compared to the other sports now anyways. :lolThe Iconoclast said:Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya as ya head off to that "other" entertainment venue.
Coolburn said:Sorry I don't watch hockey for any one single team and/or franchise. I cheer for the best players on earth...whether they play in the NHL or not. If the NHL uses replacement players or anything below skill-wise to what the majority of the NHLPA are, then there are other forms of entertainment to enjoy.
Coolburn said:Don't worry there are already plenty of others heading off to the "other" entertainment...and even more when the season gets cancelled. No longer will the NHL be considered part of the big 4 sports, like they can even be compared to the other sports now anyways. :lol
scaredsensfan said:blah blah blah...
scaredsensfan said:1. Thats a Pejorative Slured scenario
2. If all the Sens were killed, what Sens would be left for me to cheer for?
3. If Ottawa didnt have an NHL franchise, I would have little interest in the NHL.
4. People support their hometown franchise because they like the product. What is the product? The players on the NHL team.
You act as if an NHL team is a product all on its own, when its impossible for it to exist without players.
Bicycle Repairman said:If they strung up a clothesline at center ice and pinned a row of jerseys to it, who would pay to see that?
Did I say I watched hockey because its a big 4 sport?? No I did not!!! I even said before that I watch for the best players in the world whether thats in the NHL or not (meaning it could be juniors, AHL, CHL, NCAA, Europe, Russia or wherever). I was just commenting that the league as a whole is about to be removed from its status as a big 4...big 4 means big 4 type revenues, big 4 type sponsors, big 4 type TV contracts and big 4 type quality. And while some here would like to blame that on Goodenow...that's going to be a reflection on Bettman when all is said & done.The Iconoclast said:So you are watching hockey because its a "big 4 sport"? Wow. I watch hockey because I love the game and the enjoyment I get out of watching my team. The status of the sport never entered into the equation. But if status is so important to you, feel free to "get into" Nascar. I hear that's the number 4 sport in America right now.
I may be in the minority but when someone says "people cheer for the team..." they're basically saying all hockey fans cheer for the team. I don't as a hockey fan and wanted to point that out that. Just cause I may be in a minority doesn't mean my dollars are worth any less than any other fan. And no it doesn't prove that the players are the product. The game itself is the product however, the key part of the game is the players. To claim to have the best league in the world, you need to have the best game...to have the best game, you need the best players. I can't see how the NHL to claim to be the best hockey league in the world without the best players...defies common sense to me.Thunderstruck said:Then you are in a distinct minority.
People might cheer for the jersey, but they pay for the product. That product is the best league of professional hockey. People would quickly lose interest in an ersatz version.The Iconoclast said:Nobody. But if they but 20 guys in those jerseys and got 20 other guys and put them in other jerseys, then you'll get a crowd. Especially if those jerseys are New York vs. New York or Toronto vs. Montreal or Calgary vs. Edmonton or Colorado vs. Vancouver. The brand matters more than the ingredients.
Bicycle Repairman said:People might cheer for the jersey, but they pay for the product. That product is the best league of professional hockey. People would quickly lose interest in an ersatz version.
The Iconoclast said:The players are nothing but an ingedient to the product. They are components that can replaced. People will still keep coing back because of the name brand recognition and because of the brand loyalty they have built up. Even if the best ingredient is removed from the mix, people will still keep coming back.
Lets take a soft drink as an example.
If what you suggested were true, Canada would not have been hockey mad during the spring and hung on everything the Calgary Flames did. The Flames have very few players who were recognizable prior to this spring. But that didn't stop Canada for jumping on the brand and supporting it wildly. No one could tell Chuck Kobasew from chuck steak, but they could identify with the Flames jersey and the fact that it was Canadian and worth cheering for.
The Iconoclast said:As long as the product is marketed correctly, there would not be an issue. Once the people know that their "heros" are not coming back they will quickly find new ones to worship.
The Iconoclast said:You want to see the stands filled? Put a winner on the ice. It doesn't matter who is in the jersey at that point. It could be a bunch of nobodies, but as long as they win they will get support.
Oh yeah...what about the New Jersey Devils. I think we can all agree that they put a winner on the ice and they were in the bottom third in league attendance last season. Or how about the Bruins who were 2nd in the East last season and also in the bottom third in attendance last yr. How about the Isles who've made the playoffs the last 3 yrs and were also in the bottom 3rd in attendance last yr? Sounds like the fans don't care if there is a winner or not...and these are markets in the Northeast where you'd think they would support the team regardless who the players are.The Iconoclast said:You want to see the stands filled? Put a winner on the ice. It doesn't matter who is in the jersey at that point. It could be a bunch of nobodies, but as long as they win they will get support.
Hmm, but if there was no NHL, then "the best league of professional hockey" would be... ?Bicycle Repairman said:People might cheer for the jersey, but they pay for the product. That product is the best league of professional hockey. People would quickly lose interest in an ersatz version.
Blind Gardien said:Hmm, but if there was no NHL, then "the best league of professional hockey" would be... ?
The one which has the best replacement players! I would presume the NHL owners are rich enough to lure the "cream of the crop" from the cast of European league castaways and minor pro leagues. Therefore, a replacement-player NHL would once again be "the best league of professional hockey". At least, on this side of the ocean.
The product will still sell. Maybe at a lower ticket price to a reduced audience, but it will sell. I didn't stop watching the Habs when they rolled out those terrible teams of Juha Linds and Patrick Traverses a few years back. I won't stop watching them in the future if they hire Lonny Bohonos and Corey Hirsch.
In fact, I think it's pretty safe to argue that the quality of the NHL product has been going steadily downhill for most of the last decade. Yet this was still a decade of expansion and increasing revenues, wasn't it? And yet, with all of our new 30-team, 4th line grinders of no-previously-fixed-address, did the product stop selling? No. It would be the same with replacement players. Some venues would struggle more than others, but eventually a new equilibrium would be reached.
At any rate, the replacement players solution is scarcely envisioned as a lasting change in the product. It's just there to give one more jolt towards cracking the union's stance and bringing them back into the fold. One way or another, most of them will come back. Either en masse as part of a settlement, or in ones and twos as the stigma of playing in the replacement league fades. So really, it's almost pointless to argue about the quality of the replacement product anyway. That's not what it's there for.
Blind Gardien said:Hmm, but if there was no NHL, then "the best league of professional hockey" would be... ?
The one which has the best replacement players! I would presume the NHL owners are rich enough to lure the "cream of the crop" from the cast of European league castaways and minor pro leagues. Therefore, a replacement-player NHL would once again be "the best league of professional hockey". At least, on this side of the ocean.
The product will still sell. Maybe at a lower ticket price to a reduced audience, but it will sell. I didn't stop watching the Habs when they rolled out those terrible teams of Juha Linds and Patrick Traverses a few years back. I won't stop watching them in the future if they hire Lonny Bohonos and Corey Hirsch.
In fact, I think it's pretty safe to argue that the quality of the NHL product has been going steadily downhill for most of the last decade. Yet this was still a decade of expansion and increasing revenues, wasn't it? And yet, with all of our new 30-team, 4th line grinders of no-previously-fixed-address, did the product stop selling? No. It would be the same with replacement players. Some venues would struggle more than others, but eventually a new equilibrium would be reached.
At any rate, the replacement players solution is scarcely envisioned as a lasting change in the product. It's just there to give one more jolt towards cracking the union's stance and bringing them back into the fold. One way or another, most of them will come back. Either en masse as part of a settlement, or in ones and twos as the stigma of playing in the replacement league fades. So really, it's almost pointless to argue about the quality of the replacement product anyway. That's not what it's there for.