Post-Game Talk: Wild @ Jets • Tue Sep 22nd, 7PM • MTS Centre

[veganhunter]

I've always questionded why there was so fuch thorburn hate. He's always been a damn good fourth line player. Of course he has bad games, look at any teams fourth line. They have bad games as well they are the fourth line for a reason. He's really not overpaid and from time to time he makes a really good play. Put him with players atleast similar to his skill and they would be a great fourth line.

By what metric? The eye test says he stinks at both ends of the ice, he can't score, he's a terrible fighter, his underlying statistics are pretty abysmal.

Are there worse 4th liners out there? Yupp but in no way is he damn good 4th liner. Kruger, Goc, etc are damn good 4th liners, Thorburn isn't even in the same universe as those guys.

 

[chaos4]

That was my first Jets game since the 90's.
Mint seats in section 107. Happy Burmistrov is back.
That was fun

 

[surixon]

Just got home and here are my thoughts:

SSW: Line looked good in the 2nd and third period. As some others have mentioned the trio has some rust to shake off but all in all I really liked how they read off of each other and maintained control of the puck. Scheifele to me looks poised to take that step and become an all around force. Unlike many I thought Stafford had a solid night but I do question if he will be able to hang with Scheifele and Wheeler, both of which are on another level than him.

PEB: I thought the line started out really strong but saw their efficiency fade as they started to get too fancy/individualistic. I too noticed that they spent a lot of time on the perimiter and that it might make some sense to move Perrault with Blake and Mark and move one of Lowry or Stafford to play with Burmie and Ehlers to give that line a bit more of a net presence. I thought individually they all showed some nice things. While TC is still young if Nik keeps playing like that he will be on the team.

Copp - Lemieux - Armia: I didn't really see much good or bad from this trio which is probably a good thing in the case for Copp and Armia given the role they are likely trying out for. I thought Lemieux was a bit behind the play at times and will need to pick it up to make the team.

Thor - Petan _ Raffl: I thought Petan played about as well as could be expected given his line mates. I didn't mind Raffl and would like to see more of him before I form an opinion (first game on NA ice I think).

Enstrom - Buff: Typical Toby game so no complaints. Buff on the other hand played the type of game that drives me nuts. Granted its preseason but he seemed to be roaming everywhere and missed a number of assignments. I hope he starts playing that controlled game that he was playing when he was in allstar mode.

Trouba - Stuart: A pretty strong game from this pair nothing really to say.

Morrissey - Kichton: After a poor first I thought Josh played a real strong game. He flashed his sublime breakout ability and really did a good job jumping into the play. His dzone coverage and and aggressiveness was also much better. I hope he can continue to build off how ended this game. Kichton just doesn't have NHL wheels, that coupled with his size is a real long shot to ever play in the NHL.

Both goalies were great.

 

[garret9]

I'm not that diff from surixon.

Thought the Scheifele line struggled in first period, but played very well in second and third. I thought Stafford did much better than last season with those two, but he's definitely a level below the two. Wheeler on 3v3 is hella fun.

Thought the Burmistrov line was magic in the first period. I don't think they were that much on the perimeter though, more so just had some puck distribution flubs. Historically speaking Perreault has one of the best shot distributions in the NHL. He gets in tight all the time. However, I do think they struggled a bit with their passes in the second and third. They are really solid on the forecheck though.

Petan played as well as you could hope given situation. Imagine if he was setting up guys like Perreault, Ehlers, Wheeler, Ladd, not guys like Raffl and Thorburn. Don't hate Thorburn, just think that you don't want him to be more than your #12. Raffl protects the puck well, and was better skater than I remember him in the past, but meh.

Thought Armia played fine, but he needs to shoot more and have his linemates go to the right spots for passes. Lemieux and Copp were okay, but looked more like prospects soon to be NHLers, not NHLers.

Enstrom and Byfuglien I normally love together, but I thought today they were actually what people normally falsely feel about them. They generated lots, but allowed more. Buff was way to rovery. Normally Enstrom is the type of guy you want with Buff or Trouba as he's the closest thing the Jets have to a shutdown D interms of actually shutting down the opponent.

Stuart and Trouba had a solid game I though, meaning I though Trouba had a great game and Stuart was good enough to not hinder Stu completely. Stu did have head scratcher moments with puck movement, but that's just the way it is with his type of d-men. He needs to stop stepping up on oddman rushes, turning 3-on-2s into 2-on-1s... poor Trouba.

Morrissey and Kichton weren't really that noticeable. I thought Morrissey made some solid outlets but Kichton was disappointing.

 

[voyageur]

By what metric? The eye test says he stinks at both ends of the ice, he can't score, he's a terrible fighter, his underlying statistics are pretty abysmal.

Are there worse 4th liners out there? Yupp but in no way is he damn good 4th liner. Kruger, Goc, etc are damn good 4th liners, Thorburn isn't even in the same universe as those guys.

I am consciously trying to make a concerted effort to argue less, but I had to interject to your arbitrary view of elite 4th liners. Kruger produce 7 goals and 17 points in 81 games, Thorburn produced 7 goals and 14 points in 81 games. Both were -5 on the year. Thorburn did have 2 GWG, one big one down the stretch. Kruger had none. I think the ice time was similar, although the quality of linemates definitely was slanted in Kruger's favour. Thus I would suggest that the were in the same universe. Furthermore I would suggest that there is no such thing as a great 4th liner, only an effective one. Greatness should be attributed to a tangible result. It may also be noted than Maurice is often effusive in his praise for Thorburn, so there is some merit that a respected member of our organization has for his game. Goc is not in the NHL, which would be an indication that he is certainly not an elite 4th liner.

 

[sipowicz]

I'm not that diff from surixon.

Thought the Scheifele line struggled in first period, but played very well in second and third. I thought Stafford did much better than last season with those two, but he's definitely a level below the two. Wheeler on 3v3 is hella fun.

Thought the Burmistrov line was magic in the first period. I don't think they were that much on the perimeter though, more so just had some puck distribution flubs. Historically speaking Perreault has one of the best shot distributions in the NHL. He gets in tight all the time. However, I do think they struggled a bit with their passes in the second and third. They are really solid on the forecheck though.

Petan played as well as you could hope given situation. Imagine if he was setting up guys like Perreault, Ehlers, Wheeler, Ladd, not guys like Raffl and Thorburn. Don't hate Thorburn, just think that you don't want him to be more than your #12. Raffl protects the puck well, and was better skater than I remember him in the past, but meh.

Thought Armia played fine, but he needs to shoot more and have his linemates go to the right spots for passes. Lemieux and Copp were okay, but looked more like prospects soon to be NHLers, not NHLers.

Enstrom and Byfuglien I normally love together, but I thought today they were actually what people normally falsely feel about them. They generated lots, but allowed more. Buff was way to rovery. Normally Enstrom is the type of guy you want with Buff or Trouba as he's the closest thing the Jets have to a shutdown D interms of actually shutting down the opponent.

Stuart and Trouba had a solid game I though, meaning I though Trouba had a great game and Stuart was good enough to not hinder Stu completely. Stu did have head scratcher moments with puck movement, but that's just the way it is with his type of d-men. He needs to stop stepping up on oddman rushes, turning 3-on-2s into 2-on-1s... poor Trouba.

Morrissey and Kichton weren't really that noticeable. I thought Morrissey made some solid outlets but Kichton was disappointing.

Copp played one NHL game last season and some here ( and at the Freep) have him penciled in as the 4C. Way too premature, personally I don't get the hype, to me he is another James Wright but even less physical.

 

[winnipegger]

Just good to watch hockey again....cheers to that

Hard to say what Maurice will do with a 4th line...young guys or plugs hmm.....or young plugs perhaps

When Ehlers gets space he is always dangerous.
On a side note, Trouba was quietly excellent. If he ever loses Stu we could see his full potential.

 

[jesui]

That 3 on 3 was crazy but very enjoyable.
I think that it will increase the point production of those who gets to play it regularly.
Maybe even 10-15 points per season for the best.

Edit. If i could choose line combo for these 3 on 3 i'd probaply put a strong two way center, winger with good speed and strong 1on1 skills, and offensive defender.

 

[KingBogo]

Agreed with most people's thoughts on the game. And it was easy to like what we saw from a couple of the rookies, especially Ehlers. Though I think eventually the lines will start looking considerably different. It was just game 1 of preseason and Maurice has just started turning the dial.

We still have to see Lowry with Ladd and Little, but I don't think it will be long before we see the forward pairs of

Ladd-Little
Scheif-Wheeler
Burmi-Lowry

with Ehlers, MP and Stafford filling out the winger spots based on best fit and deployment. Personally I'd like to see if Ehlers could mesh with Scheif and Wheeler. That line would have the potential to be offensively dominant. Maybe MP with Ladd and Little and Stafford on the 3rd with Burmi and Lowry.

The 4th line remains a mystery, but I don't think the plan is for it to be plug central.

 

[SensibleGuy]

When he said "which one" Hnidy meant the hit Brendan laid on Dumba or the cross check and slash he received from the Wild D man who was sticking up for Dumba. Which one as in "which dirty play" would his dad have done, or at least that's my take.

obviously that's what he meant. But I guess if you hate the guy it's easier to assume he doesn't know people only have one father...

Overall, I thought that was a good game. Loved the 3 on 3!

 

[veganhunter]

I am consciously trying to make a concerted effort to argue less, but I had to interject to your arbitrary view of elite 4th liners. Kruger produce 7 goals and 17 points in 81 games, Thorburn produced 7 goals and 14 points in 81 games. Both were -5 on the year. Thorburn did have 2 GWG, one big one down the stretch. Kruger had none. I think the ice time was similar, although the quality of linemates definitely was slanted in Kruger's favour. Thus I would suggest that the were in the same universe. Furthermore I would suggest that there is no such thing as a great 4th liner, only an effective one. Greatness should be attributed to a tangible result. It may also be noted than Maurice is often effusive in his praise for Thorburn, so there is some merit that a respected member of our organization has for his game. Goc is not in the NHL, which would be an indication that he is certainly not an elite 4th liner.

Thorburn's underlying numbers are horrific compared to both of those guys.

 

[Huffer]

Really had a lot of fun at the game last night. Quick thoughts:

* Didn't have any issues with the metal detectors. Actually thought it might have sped things up.

* The scoreboard is amazing (even with the slight glitch)

* SSW had a strong game overall. Scheifele especially. I thought he was more often than not the one driving the bus. The whole team overpassed IMO, and these guys were no exception.

* PBE. It only took one shift to appreciate Burmi's puck skills again. I thought this line played well overall, and had possession of the puck more often than not. Ehlers has top end NHL speed. Once he gets used to when and where to use it, watch out.

* LCA. I'm not sure if some people are not expecting more than they really should, especially when it's the first pre-season game and first time playing together. For an all rookie line, I thought they more than held their own. Didn't generate much offensively, but it's game 1. Individually I thought Copp was pretty sound positionally, and Lemieux pretty much played his game. I didn't think Armia played poorly, I think the skill is there. He's got some speed (evident on the back check), but if there was something I would say he could use some improvement on his first 2 or 3 steps. Otherwise these guys all gave me more positive thoughts on their ability to be NHL'rs than negative.

TPR - Thought Thor and Raffl played their up and down the boards game and Petan did his best to fit as that's not his. I did like what I saw in the small sample size in Raffl, and he could be a decent AHL/NHL fillin on the 4th line similar to Lipon.

EB - Didn't think it was a good game for their abilities. Thought Enstrom was pretty tentative with the puck at times.

ST - Thought they were good overall, Stu didn't have any brain cramps.

MK - Not horrible for two young guys together. Thought Morrissey started off much too tentatively, and that won't work for him. He got better as the game went on, but I think more and more than a big time role on the Moose for a year will do him good.

PH - Both goalies played very well. If it was a regular season game, I would even say Pavs might have stolen a point with some of his saves.

Overall I thought it was a pretty decent game for the very first preseason game after only a few practices. Even though some of the passes didn't connect, I thought the pace was pretty good, and for not playing together I thought things like the breakout looked pretty decent.

Much more positive than negative (can't really think of anything negative) IMO.

Oh yeah, and the 3 on 3 was great. I liked the shootout as entertainment, but didn't like it as a means to influence standings. While the 3 on 3 isn't 5 on 5 hockey, I'd much prefer a game to be decided that way that with the shootout, and IMO it was a lot more exciting.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Its only one game, but the kid looks to be ready for the NHL. Once he starts putting the pieces together he will be something special.

Huge difference from last year. He looks ready now.

 

[truck]

I am consciously trying to make a concerted effort to argue less, but I had to interject to your arbitrary view of elite 4th liners. Kruger produce 7 goals and 17 points in 81 games, Thorburn produced 7 goals and 14 points in 81 games. Both were -5 on the year. Thorburn did have 2 GWG, one big one down the stretch. Kruger had none. I think the ice time was similar, although the quality of linemates definitely was slanted in Kruger's favour. Thus I would suggest that the were in the same universe. Furthermore I would suggest that there is no such thing as a great 4th liner, only an effective one. Greatness should be attributed to a tangible result. It may also be noted than Maurice is often effusive in his praise for Thorburn, so there is some merit that a respected member of our organization has for his game. Goc is not in the NHL, which would be an indication that he is certainly not an elite 4th liner.

Marcus Kruger is regularly asked to play tougher minutes than Toews and he still comes out in the ball park of even. The coach regularly admits that a huge percentage of the team's success is predicated on the tough defensive assignment that Kruger is asked to play. Remember, Michael Frolik was a 4th liner there.

Kruger is miles better than Thorburn and two way hockey and hockey in general.

 

[CaptainChef]

Agreed with most people's thoughts on the game. And it was easy to like what we saw from a couple of the rookies, especially Ehlers. Though I think eventually the lines will start looking considerably different. It was just game 1 of preseason and Maurice has just started turning the dial.

We still have to see Lowry with Ladd and Little, but I don't think it will be long before we see the forward pairs of

Ladd-Little
Scheif-Wheeler
Burmi-Lowry

with Ehlers, MP and Stafford filling out the winger spots based on best fit and deployment. Personally I'd like to see if Ehlers could mesh with Scheif and Wheeler. That line would have the potential to be offensively dominant. Maybe MP with Ladd and Little and Stafford on the 3rd with Burmi and Lowry.

The 4th line remains a mystery, but I don't think the plan is for it to be plug central.

I think you're dead on with your projections for the top 9. I can't see Lowry sticking on line 1 either so back to the 3rd (probably as a C but who knows if Burmi keeps playing like he has). I'd also like to see MP & Ehlers on lines 1 & 2, with Staff on line 3.

4th - anybody's guess but minimize the use of vet plugs please.

 

[jetman]

Hockey is back.... I'll give my thoughts even though they aren't far from most others...

SSW: Schiefele and Wheeler both looked strong. Didn't really notice Stafford doing anything particularly good or bad, which may be a good thing.

PBE: Ehlers has a ton of skill, the puck looked like it was drawn to him. Looked like he wasn't 100% sure what to do at some points, but that will come once he learns the Jets system and his line mates better. Perreault and Burmi both looked good as well, a few more games together and this line could be deadly.

LCA: Didn't stand out as a weak line, which is really good considering they are all prospects. Need to watch them a little more to form a better opinion.

TPR: Thorburn was Thorburn, no surprises from him. Petan is really good at passing. That breakaway feed to Raffl is just one example, he probably deserves a chance to try playing with better linemates. Raffl looks like he protects the puck well, but otherwise didn't stand out to me that much.


Enstrom Buff: About what you would expect from them.

Stuart Trouba: Same.

Morrissey: Didn't look great at the beginning, but picked it up from there.
Kichton: Can't really remember anything he did or didn't do.

 

[lomiller1]

* Didn't have any issues with the metal detectors. Actually thought it might have sped things up.

It took me over 20 min to get though them

 

[LowEnd88]

I think it was said already, but i'd really be interested in seeing MP and Staff get switched. I think that would be beneficial to both of those lines...

Didn't seem like Buff was taking the game seriously. I know it is preseason, but I recall him playing that loose in some regular season games too. Drives me up the freaking wall.

 

[Jeti]

I think you're dead on with your projections for the top 9. I can't see Lowry sticking on line 1 either so back to the 3rd (probably as a C but who knows if Burmi keeps playing like he has). I'd also like to see MP & Ehlers on lines 1 & 2, with Staff on line 3.

4th - anybody's guess but minimize the use of vet plugs please.

It'll be interesting if Ehlers and Petan both make the team. I don't think it's likely, but we could see Lowry centre the 4th line then. Imagine that depth.

 

[Huffer]

It took me over 20 min to get though them

I was wondering if it would be worse for others, maybe at different times or locations.

I come in the 300 level, from the south (Sharkclub) side. I think I went in around 6:30 ish. There were 6 detectors there (3 on each side), and I thought we moved pretty decent. In the past, it was pat downs and wands, and the men would go on the outside and the ladies in the middle. Sometimes the line would almost get to the Sharkclub.

I could have been lucky last night, but it didn't seem to take us long at all.

 

[surixon]

I was wondering if it would be worse for others, maybe at different times or locations.

I come in the 300 level, from the south (Sharkclub) side. I think I went in around 6:30 ish. There were 6 detectors there (3 on each side), and I thought we moved pretty decent. In the past, it was pat downs and wands, and the men would go on the outside and the ladies in the middle. Sometimes the line would almost get to the Sharkclub.

I could have been lucky last night, but it didn't seem to take us long at all.

It took me about a minute to get through the metal detectors. I thought it moved much more quickly than last year.

 

[Guardian17]

That 3-on-3 was very entertaining.

 

[mcpw]

3v3 will lead to heart attacks in the regular season.

 

[LowEnd88]

3v3 will lead to heart attacks in the regular season.

Seriously. Man was i ever worked up during that overtime. I think we actually have a good team for the 3v3, and dominated most of the overtime against the wild. It's too bad they were able to sneak that one in on Helle.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I found the 3 vs. 3 more entertaining than the SO, while having the same level of heart-attack inducement. I'd prefer to see it settled on skill AND hockey play, rather than just skill. I quite liked it - gimmicky, but not as much as the SO.