Why Vegas won

[Larabee]

I still think the XD rules were too generous, at least when you compare to previous years. Their GM and coach are not that much smarter than anyone else. Gallant didn't have extraordinary success in Florida. I doubt if the NHL imagined that an XD designed to ice a competitive team would have resulted in a Stanley Cup team. There are hockey critics that claim that hockey results are too random. Having an expansion team as your league champion sort of proves their point, unless you believe that the XD rules were flawed.

 

[Tommigun]

There’s exactly two reasons for why we lost:

1) Fleury. If you sport a .956 save % you’re going to win. It’s ridiculous that people don’t acknowledge this. It wasn’t a one-off thing either, he’d been going like that in the previous series as well.

2) Fatigue. The Jets and the Predators, the two best teams in the league, took each other out. Jets had one or two days of rest, Vegas like a week. It’s a bit disheartening that lesser teams are competing for the cup because the best teams took each other out. I don’t think that’s fair, but it is what it is.

 

[raideralex99]

There’s exactly two reasons as to why we lost:

1) Fleury. If you sport a .956 save % you’re going to win. It’s ridiculous that people don’t acknowledge this. It wasn’t a one-off thing either, he’d been going like that in the previous series as well.

2) Fatigue. The Jets and the Predators, the two best teams in the league, took each other out. Jets has one or two days of rest, Vegas like a week. It’s a bit disheartening that lesser teams are competing for the cup because the best teams took each other out. I don’t think that’s fair, but it is what it is.

Don't forget the refs as everyone can seen how Vegas is getting the calls against the Capitals. Seriously in game 1 the Capitals should have been on the PP leading by one goal instead Backstrom is crosschecked to the ice and the game is tied.
The refs are too afraid to give Vegas a penalty because the Caps PP is so good.

 

[raideralex99]

I still think the XD rules were too generous, at least when you compare to previous years. Their GM and coach are not that much smarter than anyone else. Gallant didn't have extraordinary success in Florida. I doubt if the NHL imagined that an XD designed to ice a competitive team would have resulted in a Stanley Cup team. There are hockey critics that claim that hockey results are too random. Having an expansion team as your league champion sort of proves their point, unless you believe that the XD rules were flawed.

I know it would never happen but I bet if it was a Canadian expansion team ... they would have to pick their players from the AHL.
Remember when the WHA champs Jets 1.0 got into the NHL ... the NHL raped their team. 4 or 5 of their players were leading scorers on their new teams.

 

[Tommigun]

Don't forget the refs as everyone can seen how Vegas is getting the calls against the Capitals. Seriously in game 1 the Capitals should have been on the PP leading by one goal instead Backstrom is crosschecked to the ice and the game is tied.
The refs are too afraid to give Vegas a penalty because the Caps PP is so good.

I left out subjective things like reffing and puck luck. I personally didn’t even think the reffing was too bad, and if you asked Vegas fans they’d probably say reffing was biased towards the Jets. Nor do I think four consecutive losses should/could be explained away with bad reffing, it really does sound like an excuse and imho is an excuse. And the same regarding puck luck.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I still think the XD rules were too generous, at least when you compare to previous years. Their GM and coach are not that much smarter than anyone else. Gallant didn't have extraordinary success in Florida. I doubt if the NHL imagined that an XD designed to ice a competitive team would have resulted in a Stanley Cup team. There are hockey critics that claim that hockey results are too random. Having an expansion team as your league champion sort of proves their point, unless you believe that the XD rules were flawed.

Re bolded - Yes the rules in hindsight seem somewhat generous. Although no one was really complaining at the time. It seems to have become a hot topic because they may win the Cup. But no one has paid anywhere close to 1/2 Billion dollars in previous years either. In 2000, a team cost $80M which is about $120M in today's dollars.

 

[Gm0ney]

I still think the XD rules were too generous, at least when you compare to previous years. Their GM and coach are not that much smarter than anyone else. Gallant didn't have extraordinary success in Florida. I doubt if the NHL imagined that an XD designed to ice a competitive team would have resulted in a Stanley Cup team. There are hockey critics that claim that hockey results are too random. Having an expansion team as your league champion sort of proves their point, unless you believe that the XD rules were flawed.

Oh yeah, compared to previous expansions where existing teams were allowed to protect far more players, there was no salary cap, and the new teams got to pick from the very bottom of the barrel, this was quite generous. Still not "Stanley Cup Finalist" generous, though. Bubble-team-generous, maybe.

Isn't the idea of giving an expansion city a half-decent team a good one, though? The league added 10 expansion teams in 10 seasons from 1991 and 2000. Their combined record was 920-1487-312 (.396). They made the playoffs 28 times in 100 seasons combined in their first 10 years in the league. Is that the best recipe for success in a new market?

Of course if Vegas wins the Cup, it's all downhill from there for them. Might as well move the team to Quebec...

 

[Eyeseeing]

There is a direct positive correlation between the variables winning and drinking mass quantities of beer. We simply did not consume enough alcohol to effect a win. I was working late and had to have coffee to stay awake and coffee again in the morning to wake up. Jets lost because of beer and the lack therof

I blame you sir
Now go to your room and drink

 

[Larabee]

Re bolded - Yes the rules in hindsight seem somewhat generous. Although no one was really complaining at the time. It seems to have become a hot topic because they may win the Cup. But no one has paid anywhere close to 1/2 Billion dollars in previous years either. In 2000, a team cost $80M which is about $120M in today's dollars.

Was their entry fee contingent on the XD rules ? They would have paid regardless (unless I’ve missed something). But you’re right, not many people were complaining at the time... but in hindsight maybe they should have been.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

You didn't finish the sentence that hockey analysts have said contributed to MAF playing at a high level (even Helle mentioned it). Vegas was doing a great job of limiting the time/space, second chances and high danger chances giving MAF the opportunity to make the saves.

Washington is using strategy/tactics to open up Vegas and MAF (heaver game and more cross ice activity in the offensive zone). Appears to be working.

I wish we would have used these tactics more.

Don't bother blasting me for posting this publically and widely reported fact - I will just ignore your attack.

Lol, dont challenge my falase narrative or else I will take my ball and go home.

I have already blown your narrative apart in a previous post, No need to anymore, think this thread pretty much lays it to rest.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I don't know if I would say crap, but their roster is pretty middling. The current roster is dominated by players via trade.

But they are playing as a team and a great system by a great coach. They were able to take away the Jets' strength, and we didn't really do much to try to adjust. Other than a desperation move in an elimination game to shakeup the lineup with guys that hadn't seen the ice in a long time. Quite a shame really.

A great coach with a great system eh?

Same coach that was fired twice, made the playoffs once in his career, losing in the first round? I like Gallant, but surely you understand his career has not been roses.

You are transparent with your views, but the hypocrisy in your judgement of Maurice, a coach that just got us to a conference final in only his second playoff run with us, is comically skewed.

 

[sipowicz]

A great coach with a great system eh?

Same coach that was fired twice, made the playoffs once in his career, losing in the first round? I like Gallant, but surely you understand his career has not been roses.

You are transparent with your views, but the hypocrisy in your judgement of Maurice, a coach that just got us to a conference final in only his second playoff run with us, is comically skewed.

Maurice coached teams we're out of the playoff's more than they were in , 20 years as an NHL head coach and his teams have had 6 playoff appearances, Maurice ain't exactly the gold standard of getting teams into the playoffs!

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Maurice coached teams we're out of the playoff's more than they were in , 20 years as an NHL head coach and his teams have had 6 playoff appearances, Maurice ain't exactly the gold standard of getting teams into the playoffs!

Never said his career was all roses. Difference is I don't spend 95% of my day trying to tell you Gallant is garbage, while praising another coach with the same type of resume.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I think the 'we were tired' thing is convenient but is being overplayed. I recall Wheels said that that wasn't a factor and if you can't get up for these games then wtf (paraphrasing). Washington had played 12 post season games going into their series with the Lightning and Winnipeg played 12 going into their series against Vegas. Yeah, Nash was a difficult series but so was Wash / Pitt. Wash also needed 7 games to beat the Lightning - another physical grueling series - and they are matching Vegas in play in the first two games (yes there were some days off). But a more effective strategy has a lot to do with that of course.

Of course there is a physical effect, but to what extent are the Jets affected compared to other teams? If we were already that tired after 12 playoff games, that doesn't bode well for us for future post season runs. But I am not worried because I think the 'we were tired' thing is just being overplayed.

 

[Ducky10]

I think the 'we were tired' thing is convenient but is being overplayed.

Just like the 'outcoached' thing.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I should buy aluminium stock it looks like.

 

[Tommigun]

I think the 'we were tired' thing is convenient but is being overplayed. I recall Wheels said that that wasn't a factor and if you can't get up for these games then wtf (paraphrasing). Washington had played 12 post season games going into their series with the Lightning and Winnipeg played 12 going into their series against Vegas. Yeah, Nash was a difficult series but so was Wash / Pitt. Wash also needed 7 games to beat the Lightning - another physical grueling series - and they are matching Vegas in play in the first two games (yes there were some days off). But a more effective strategy has a lot to do with that of course.

Of course there is a physical effect, but to what extent are the Jets affected compared to other teams? If we were already that tired after 12 playoff games, that doesn't bode well for us for future post season runs. But I am not worried because I think the 'we were tired' thing is just being overplayed.

There were 6 days between Capitals finishing their 7 game series vs Tampa before starting the series against Vegas, and only one day between Jets finishing the series vs Nashville before the Vegas series began. That's a HUUUGE difference, and the Jets looked very tired. Still, MAF was the real difference. I still think the Jets and Preds largely took each other out though.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I think the Jets learned a lot about themselves.
Lots of others fan bases said the lack of playoff experience would mean a quick exit for our boys.
That did not happen.
It no longer matters why we lost it or Vegas won it.
The roster generally will have benefited greatly from this longer than expected run.
Heck many of our own posters picked Nashville... not me
Lots of good seasons ahead boys and girls

 

[Tommigun]

I think the Jets learned a lot about themselves.
Lots of others fan bases said the lack of playoff experience would mean a quick exit for our boys.
That did not happen.
It no longer matters why we lost it or Vegas won it.
The roster generally will have benefited greatly from this longer than expected run.
Heck many of our own posters picked Nashville... not me
Lots of good seasons ahead boys and girls

Yeah. But we still need to be able to solve Vegas in the coming years, IIRC we split wins with Nashville but lost 6 and won 2 vs Vegas. That scares me. We won't be able to make the finals before that happens.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I think the 'we were tired' thing is convenient but is being overplayed. I recall Wheels said that that wasn't a factor and if you can't get up for these games then wtf (paraphrasing). Washington had played 12 post season games going into their series with the Lightning and Winnipeg played 12 going into their series against Vegas. Yeah, Nash was a difficult series but so was Wash / Pitt. Wash also needed 7 games to beat the Lightning - another physical grueling series - and they are matching Vegas in play in the first two games (yes there were some days off). But a more effective strategy has a lot to do with that of course.
Of course there is a physical effect, but to what extent are the Jets affected compared to other teams? If we were already that tired after 12 playoff games, that doesn't bode well for us for future post season runs. But I am not worried because I think the 'we were tired' thing is just being overplayed.

I think using a blanket statement that anything that didn’t work well must be coaching related, to be a simpletons argument, much much more convenient than fatigue.

I can tell you struggle with comprehending why we didn’t have that half step that you keep regurgitating, and repeatedly trying to convince the board its all on Maurice. I pretty much dispelled your angle in a previous post, one you chose not to respond to, because its quite obvious when challenged on your view, you cannot back it up.

Like Washington did, we beat Vegas once as well. So much like most of your posts, you have stated nothing of relevance above, just taking some pieces of info and trying to piece together your fragile angle that we lost because of Maurice.
Answer this question, please:

What team would you expect to have a ½ step on the other team:

a) A team that was rested for 5 days
b) A team that was rested for 1 day

Please answer and please oh please explain your reasoning, for a good laugh today?

 

[sipowicz]

Just like the 'outcoached' thing.

Don't know if Mo was outcoached by Gallant but Mo wasn't quick enough to make adjustments to offensive schemes or player personnel, he waited too long to get Roslo into the lineup, unnecessarily removed Morrow who was adequate defensively and more than adequate offensively especially when the team needed scoring! Copp and Armia were ice cold offensively and could have been swapped out a lot sooner!

 

[Robinson2187]

I should buy aluminium stock it looks like.

Jets are made of aluminum.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I know it would never happen but I bet if it was a Canadian expansion team ... they would have to pick their players from the AHL.
Remember when the WHA champs Jets 1.0 got into the NHL ... the NHL raped their team. 4 or 5 of their players were leading scorers on their new teams.

It's a popular narrative that the Jets were robbed of their talent entering the NHL. It's not true.

The 78-79 WHA was a joke and the league champs the Jets were a pale shadow of the team the season prior in 77-78.

90% of 78-79 Jets would never play in the NHL after the merger, in fact most were out of hockey altogether incapable of even making a minor league roster.

Nilsson & Hedberg were gone the season prior to the Rangers. Hull was ancient...& injured.

Further two of the players the Jets "lost" of worth, namely Ruskowski & Preston were only on the team as the Houston Aeros folded. They weren't Jets. The NHL teams owning their rights had a far more legitimate case than Winnipeg had for keeping them.

It wasn't the NHL's fault the Jets left Kent Nillson unprotected or didn't know their top defender Scott Campbell was incapable of breathing let alone playing hockey. Asthma forced him into retirement by 25.

Winnipeg can take pride in knowing the WHA Jets from 74-78 were one of the best teams in hockey history.

As for the Jets being dismantled by the NHL upon entering the league, it's a utter falsehood perpetuated by the same media who thought the whiteout began in 1985.

 

[Jets4Life]

One wonders if Maurice spend the time necessary to go through tapes of Fleury's play from 2010-15, when he was mediocre at best in the playoffs.

 

[Jets4Life]

Winnipeg can take pride in knowing the WHA Jets from 74-78 were one of the best teams in hockey history.

I would even debate this statement. The 74-78 Jets would have likely been barely in the top 6, behind Montreal, Boston, NY Islanders, Philadelphia, and Buffalo. The WHA was an inferior league, with 75% of the league players being either 4th liners in the NHL or career minor leaguers. The Jets simply did not have the depth to compete for the Stanley Cup in the 70s