Why is the OHL stalling on realignment

[cupcrazyman2]

I like the idea of playing back to back games when teams have to travel far but are still in their own div or conference.I don't follow the schedule that close but Sarnia travelling to the Soo or Erie for back to back games makes alot off sense.In a perfect world eastern vs western conference long distance games would be played at the start or end of the season to try to avoid the nastiest weather.

 

[cupcrazyman2]

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[OMG67]

Look at it this way. There are three teams that struggle geographically. Sault, Erie and Ottawa. Those three teams require priority alignment because of geography. Not starting with those three teams logically makes no sense. You need to work your way from the outer regions and work your way in.

Sault:
SSM has 6 teams within a 5 hour drive. North Bay, Sudbury, Windsor, Sarnia, Flint and Saginaw. Based on this, if you are trying to satisfy the best case scenario for SSM, you use the western teams because it is grouped together in a tighter basket and then add rivalry games to the schedule for Sudbury and North Bay. That is what the league has done with Sault. That is the best case scenario for them. If that’s the case then the Western Division remains untouched.

Ottawa:
The 67’s have three rivals East of Toronto…Oshawa, Peterborough and Kingston. The East Division requires those four teams to be aligned together. The 5th team could be whomever is relatively close to the GTA.

Erie:
Erie cannot be in the West division and obviously cannot be added to the East Division. So, that leaves the Midwest or the Central. Sudbury, North Bay and Barrie need to be in the same division so that makes up the foundation of the Central. London, Guelph and Kitchener are all inside 1.5 hours. That forms the basis of the Mid-West. Erie needs to navigate Lake Erie no matter what they do. They are sort of screwed regardless. So, is it better for them to play Barrie, North Bay and Sudbury or London, Guelph and Kitchener? Clearly, that puts them in the Mid-West with London, Guelph and Kitchener.

So, here are the resulting divisions so far….

East:
Ottawa
Kingston
Peterborough
Oshawa

Central:
Barrie
North Bay
Sudbury

Mid-West:
London
Guelph
Kitchener
Erie

West:
SSM
Flint
Saginaw
Windsor
Sarnia

That leaves Niagara, Hamilton, Mississauga and Owen Sound. Using the same logic, Hamilton and Mississauga cannot be considered for anything in their favour. Their relative travel throughout the league is relatively minimal. So, the next team in question would be Owen Sound. Is it better for them to join the Mid-West where they play three of the four teams within a 2.5 hour radius or do they join the Central where North Bay and Sudbury are both 4 hours+? Clearly, the MidWest is their better partner.

That leave three teams with a spot in the East and two spots in the Central. Niagara is not going to join the East. Ottawa is about an hour longer drive compared to Sudbury and they’d need to push through Toronto. So, Niagara goes in the Central.

And then there were two! Does it really matter which division the other two end up? It’s 30 minutes (no traffic) between them. Flip a coin and move on….

 

[Millpond]

I think people forget that the Chi Chi Man shuts down in the winter

Chi Cheemaun= Big Canoe

 

[AttackSound]

Look at it this way. There are three teams that struggle geographically. Sault, Erie and Ottawa. Those three teams require priority alignment because of geography. Not starting with those three teams logically makes no sense. You need to work your way from the outer regions and work your way in.

Sault:
SSM has 6 teams within a 5 hour drive. North Bay, Sudbury, Windsor, Sarnia, Flint and Saginaw. Based on this, if you are trying to satisfy the best case scenario for SSM, you use the western teams because it is grouped together in a tighter basket and then add rivalry games to the schedule for Sudbury and North Bay. That is what the league has done with Sault. That is the best case scenario for them. If that’s the case then the Western Division remains untouched.

Ottawa:
The 67’s have three rivals East of Toronto…Oshawa, Peterborough and Kingston. The East Division requires those four teams to be aligned together. The 5th team could be whomever is relatively close to the GTA.

Erie:
Erie cannot be in the West division and obviously cannot be added to the East Division. So, that leaves the Midwest or the Central. Sudbury, North Bay and Barrie need to be in the same division so that makes up the foundation of the Central. London, Guelph and Kitchener are all inside 1.5 hours. That forms the basis of the Mid-West. Erie needs to navigate Lake Erie no matter what they do. They are sort of screwed regardless. So, is it better for them to play Barrie, North Bay and Sudbury or London, Guelph and Kitchener? Clearly, that puts them in the Mid-West with London, Guelph and Kitchener.

So, here are the resulting divisions so far….

East:
Ottawa
Kingston
Peterborough
Oshawa

Central:
Barrie
North Bay
Sudbury

Mid-West:
London
Guelph
Kitchener
Erie

West:
SSM
Flint
Saginaw
Windsor
Sarnia

That leaves Niagara, Hamilton, Mississauga and Owen Sound. Using the same logic, Hamilton and Mississauga cannot be considered for anything in their favour. Their relative travel throughout the league is relatively minimal. So, the next team in question would be Owen Sound. Is it better for them to join the Mid-West where they play three of the four teams within a 2.5 hour radius or do they join the Central where North Bay and Sudbury are both 4 hours+? Clearly, the MidWest is their better partner.

That leave three teams with a spot in the East and two spots in the Central. Niagara is not going to join the East. Ottawa is about an hour longer drive compared to Sudbury and they’d need to push through Toronto. So, Niagara goes in the Central.

And then there were two! Does it really matter which division the other two end up? It’s 30 minutes (no traffic) between them. Flip a coin and move on….

At the end of the day here's the realistic truth.

The only way we will ever see any realignment of this leagues divisions is through expansion. But even let's just play the game of one day the league does that you would have to expand the OHL evenly.

So how would they do that? Realistically this league would need to add even number of teams. Say 22 or 24 to balance the games which would also mean shaving games in divisional rivals down to accommodate a few teams.

As of right now every teams divisional schedule is a 6-6-8-8 breakdown of games being that the closer teams play more games while the futher away teams play a little bit less. Beyond the travel time and distance you would have to consider the fact that the league would have to change it's whole time frame and and it would be more of a nightmare for people in change.

Even if you realistically shuffle the divisions there would be teams that would be unhappy and someone would get the shirt end of the stick. Mainly those outlying teams like Ottawa, Soo, Windsor, and Erie.

So at the end of the day the only way will see any change will be minimal at best. Like even Hamilton to Brantford isn't a big inconvenience to teams and in some case a slight benefit to others.

This leaves the simple thought that "IF" and its a big "IF" the OHL was going to change things around you would have to think expansion into specific targeted markets would be key to a mass realignment. So what dies that mean, looking at old locations, (Belleville?, I doubt it they have the AHL, Detroit? Possible but highly unlikely, Toronto? I would think that is out of the question, Cornwall? Could but I think if Brantford is going to be the home of the Bulldogs that squashes that idea down.

That really leaves U.S. based places remaining, and with the way the AHL is located around I'd think that it would be more likely to see the OHL not bother trying to compete in a multi-market locals like that. So unless it's comes down to the day where teams that are already in the OHL relocating what we have now plus minus a tweak here or there will more likely remain the same, so in this case Hamilton to Brantford is a tweak that could have be temporary or permanent change in the OHL.

I would have to think this "temporary solution" could become a more permanent for the Bulldogs once they transition from Hamilton to Brantford.

It's like how fans wonder how Owen Sound makes a go of it in the OHL, we don't have a massive building but we also don't have a massive cost to upgrade and maintain the building also. Yes there's things that could be improved and at some point in the near future they will improve but for the city size we are it works.

So sum it all up if the OHL wanted to do any more juggling or relocating or teams around I think they had enough time to do that already, like 2 years of health shutdowns to sit there and decide what to do with the teams and who they'd play each week. And beyond the Bulldogs sort of getting the short end of the stick in Hamilton there's likely not going to be any significant changes league wide anytime soon.

 

[rangersblues]

At the end of the day here's the realistic truth.

The only way we will ever see any realignment of this leagues divisions is through expansion. But even let's just play the game of one day the league does that you would have to expand the OHL evenly.

So how would they do that? Realistically this league would need to add even number of teams. Say 22 or 24 to balance the games which would also mean shaving games in divisional rivals down to accommodate a few teams.

As of right now every teams divisional schedule is a 6-6-8-8 breakdown of games being that the closer teams play more games while the futher away teams play a little bit less. Beyond the travel time and distance you would have to consider the fact that the league would have to change it's whole time frame and and it would be more of a nightmare for people in change.

Even if you realistically shuffle the divisions there would be teams that would be unhappy and someone would get the shirt end of the stick. Mainly those outlying teams like Ottawa, Soo, Windsor, and Erie.

So at the end of the day the only way will see any change will be minimal at best. Like even Hamilton to Brantford isn't a big inconvenience to teams and in some case a slight benefit to others.

This leaves the simple thought that "IF" and its a big "IF" the OHL was going to change things around you would have to think expansion into specific targeted markets would be key to a mass realignment. So what dies that mean, looking at old locations, (Belleville?, I doubt it they have the AHL, Detroit? Possible but highly unlikely, Toronto? I would think that is out of the question, Cornwall? Could but I think if Brantford is going to be the home of the Bulldogs that squashes that idea down.

That really leaves U.S. based places remaining, and with the way the AHL is located around I'd think that it would be more likely to see the OHL not bother trying to compete in a multi-market locals like that. So unless it's comes down to the day where teams that are already in the OHL relocating what we have now plus minus a tweak here or there will more likely remain the same, so in this case Hamilton to Brantford is a tweak that could have be temporary or permanent change in the OHL.

I would have to think this "temporary solution" could become a more permanent for the Bulldogs once they transition from Hamilton to Brantford.

It's like how fans wonder how Owen Sound makes a go of it in the OHL, we don't have a massive building but we also don't have a massive cost to upgrade and maintain the building also. Yes there's things that could be improved and at some point in the near future they will improve but for the city size we are it works.

So sum it all up if the OHL wanted to do any more juggling or relocating or teams around I think they had enough time to do that already, like 2 years of health shutdowns to sit there and decide what to do with the teams and who they'd play each week. And beyond the Bulldogs sort of getting the short end of the stick in Hamilton there's likely not going to be any significant changes league wide anytime soon.

If the Hamilton "relocation" to Brantford becomes permanent I believe there will be a new building. I heard Andlauer was willing to partially finance a new building in Hamilton at one time but his plan was turned down.

 

[Hammer9001]

At the end of the day here's the realistic truth.

The only way we will ever see any realignment of this leagues divisions is through expansion. But even let's just play the game of one day the league does that you would have to expand the OHL evenly.

So how would they do that? Realistically this league would need to add even number of teams. Say 22 or 24 to balance the games which would also mean shaving games in divisional rivals down to accommodate a few teams.

As of right now every teams divisional schedule is a 6-6-8-8 breakdown of games being that the closer teams play more games while the futher away teams play a little bit less. Beyond the travel time and distance you would have to consider the fact that the league would have to change it's whole time frame and and it would be more of a nightmare for people in change.

Even if you realistically shuffle the divisions there would be teams that would be unhappy and someone would get the shirt end of the stick. Mainly those outlying teams like Ottawa, Soo, Windsor, and Erie.

So at the end of the day the only way will see any change will be minimal at best. Like even Hamilton to Brantford isn't a big inconvenience to teams and in some case a slight benefit to others.

This leaves the simple thought that "IF" and its a big "IF" the OHL was going to change things around you would have to think expansion into specific targeted markets would be key to a mass realignment. So what dies that mean, looking at old locations, (Belleville?, I doubt it they have the AHL, Detroit? Possible but highly unlikely, Toronto? I would think that is out of the question, Cornwall? Could but I think if Brantford is going to be the home of the Bulldogs that squashes that idea down.

That really leaves U.S. based places remaining, and with the way the AHL is located around I'd think that it would be more likely to see the OHL not bother trying to compete in a multi-market locals like that. So unless it's comes down to the day where teams that are already in the OHL relocating what we have now plus minus a tweak here or there will more likely remain the same, so in this case Hamilton to Brantford is a tweak that could have be temporary or permanent change in the OHL.

I would have to think this "temporary solution" could become a more permanent for the Bulldogs once they transition from Hamilton to Brantford.

It's like how fans wonder how Owen Sound makes a go of it in the OHL, we don't have a massive building but we also don't have a massive cost to upgrade and maintain the building also. Yes there's things that could be improved and at some point in the near future they will improve but for the city size we are it works.

So sum it all up if the OHL wanted to do any more juggling or relocating or teams around I think they had enough time to do that already, like 2 years of health shutdowns to sit there and decide what to do with the teams and who they'd play each week. And beyond the Bulldogs sort of getting the short end of the stick in Hamilton there's likely not going to be any significant changes league wide anytime soon.

In terms of expansion, Belleville, Cornwall, Brantford/Hamilton (depending how that goes) and either Chatham or another Michigan team are the spots I'd be looking at. If that were to happen, and alignment like this would seem to help just about everyone, save SSM who frankly, no matter what you do, will have the short end of the travel stick and Guelph who much like Mississauga and Hamilton, has relatively easy travel as is (although would loose the rivalry with Kitchener)

Ottawa, Cornwall, Kingston, Belleville, Peterborough, Oshawa
Guelph, Owen Sound, Mississauga, Barrie, Sudbury, North Bay
Brantford, Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Niagara, Erie
SSM, Saginaw, Flint, Windsor, Sarnia, Chatham/Ann Arbour/Plymouth?

That said, there's clear issues here in this whimsical scenario. Belleville is still hosting the Sens farm, Brantford and Hamilton is what it is and I believe Andlauer or any other owner could block both teams, Chatham I don't think has an arena of size, Ann Arbour's arena would be a university share and most of all, I don't see owners crawling out of the woodwork anywhere. That's what it my eyes makes Hamilton's situation especially awkward. Andlauer is a great owner, and unless the Ti-Cats suddenly decide to become Hamilton's OSEG or MLSE (which I suppose is possible, as they also own Forge FC and apparently have live nation connections, but I can't see them doing that till Forge breaks even) I don't know where these owners come from.

Like you said, there's likely not going to be any significant changes league wide anytime soon.

 

[Hammer9001]

If the Hamilton "relocation" to Brantford becomes permanent I believe there will be a new building. I heard Andlauer was willing to partially finance a new building in Hamilton at one time but his plan was turned down.

He was going to put up $30 million, but the facility as a whole would have costed $126 million after everything was said and done. That also said, part of that cost was for a parking garage to make up for lost space at Limeridge, although I'm to understand at basically no land cost (as Limeridge was going to give that up for said parking garage) which can be problematic for arena sites as they tend to only produce limited tax revenue (particularly if they are publicly owned) once an arena goes up. It's really the biggest reason to build on the outskirts of a city, because you can buy land that can't generate potential revenue yet. When you have to buy land in say a city core, it gets messy, even though it is generally the better investment for all parties.

The other big question is apparently he's involved with the Ottawa Sens bid. What happens should that work out is anyone's guess.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/lime-ridge-arena-1.5428441

EDIT: I should add, that cost is really the biggest issue with a new build. Is Brantford willing to spend that much on a new facility, after they just spend a few million renovating an old one, since I doubt Andlauer would pay for an entirely new facility on is own, especially with one down the road he doesn't have to put a dime towards. Then again, he's may be tired of being jerked around in Hamilton.

 

[OMG67]

Regardless of any of these scenario’s the outer region teams remain outer region teams. There isn’t likely a team to be added that makes sense for SSM to change divisions. The East Division remains the same unless a team moves or is added to the Eastern side of the GTA. Erie remains relatively unaffected unless they add a team in Ohio, Pennsylvania Or the suburbs of Buffalo.

Expansion, if it were to happen, likely adds to the perceived problems because it adds more puzzle pieces.

The western division is fine as it is. SSM will always be a trek so even if Windsor were pulled and a team were to be added to traverse City or something like that, it really doesn’t make a big difference. Same goes for Erie. They’d need something on the south side of Lake Erie to make a difference for them. They both just need to sit down and eat their lunch.

The only big difference that can be made is a team moving to Belleville (unlikely) or Cornwall so the teams in the Eastern Division are all on the same side of the GTA. IT would keep all of those teams from needing to run through the city to get to divisional games.

If we wanted to make things easy, we’d move SSM closer to Detroit, Erie to Buffalo or Southern Ontario, Mississauga to Cornwall, and Sudbury and North Bay to Southern Ontario. Eliminate the North entirely. Get rid of Erie and their lakefront wall. Add the team East of Toronto to make it easier. This isn’t going to happen. SSM is too strong of a franchise to move. Erie seems pretty strong as well with solid support.

I think the entire league would love it if Mississauga could move East somewhere and help resolve that Divisional issue. But, I don’t see that happening anytime in the near future.

So, we are where we are. I think we need to just cozy up to the reality that changes of any significant consequence is unlikley.

 

[Hammer9001]

Regardless of any of these scenario’s the outer region teams remain outer region teams. There isn’t likely a team to be added that makes sense for SSM to change divisions. The East Division remains the same unless a team moves or is added to the Eastern side of the GTA. Erie remains relatively unaffected unless they add a team in Ohio, Pennsylvania Or the suburbs of Buffalo.

Expansion, if it were to happen, likely adds to the perceived problems because it adds more puzzle pieces.

The western division is fine as it is. SSM will always be a trek so even if Windsor were pulled and a team were to be added to traverse City or something like that, it really doesn’t make a big difference. Same goes for Erie. They’d need something on the south side of Lake Erie to make a difference for them. They both just need to sit down and eat their lunch.

The only big difference that can be made is a team moving to Belleville (unlikely) or Cornwall so the teams in the Eastern Division are all on the same side of the GTA. IT would keep all of those teams from needing to run through the city to get to divisional games.

If we wanted to make things easy, we’d move SSM closer to Detroit, Erie to Buffalo or Southern Ontario, Mississauga to Cornwall, and Sudbury and North Bay to Southern Ontario. Eliminate the North entirely. Get rid of Erie and their lakefront wall. Add the team East of Toronto to make it easier. This isn’t going to happen. SSM is too strong of a franchise to move. Erie seems pretty strong as well with solid support.

I think the entire league would love it if Mississauga could move East somewhere and help resolve that Divisional issue. But, I don’t see that happening anytime in the near future.

So, we are where we are. I think we need to just cozy up to the reality that changes of any significant consequence is unlikley.

I agree with you about the SSM. There is no point in moving them from the West division, barring a bridge or tunnel replacing the ferry at Tobermory, and that's just not going to happen (and even then, you'd probably end up screwing Barrie).

If you try to fix the Sault's travel by making a North division, all you have done is caused a new problem for Sudbury and North Bay (who now have to go to Michigan) or Barrie and whoever else you try to stick in this division, who have to travel to the Sault.

No one is talk about relocating teams to make travel easier, and frankly, there aren't many places in Southern Ontario that could support and OHL franchise, save Toronto who doesn't seem to care for OHL hockey anymore.

That said, there are ways you certainly could make travel easier for Erie, it just doesn't work out without breaking up the mid-west division to some degree and the one change I would advocate for as the league stands now (Hamilton/Brantford swapping with Mississauga) would have a greater net benefit.

 

[OMG67]

I agree with you about the SSM. There is no point in moving them from the West division, barring a bridge or tunnel replacing the ferry at Tobermory, and that's just not going to happen (and even then, you'd probably end up screwing Barrie).

If you try to fix the Sault's travel by making a North division, all you have done is caused a new problem for Sudbury and North Bay (who now have to go to Michigan) or Barrie and whoever else you try to stick in this division, who have to travel to the Sault.

No one is talk about relocating teams to make travel easier, and frankly, there aren't many places in Southern Ontario that could support and OHL franchise, save Toronto who doesn't seem to care for OHL hockey anymore.

That said, there are ways you certainly could make travel easier for Erie, it just doesn't work out without breaking up the mid-west division to some degree and the one change I would advocate for as the league stands now (Hamilton/Brantford swapping with Mississauga) would have a greater net benefit.

I don’t understand the Hamilton Mississauga issue. It is a very minor change in the grand scheme of things. Almost negligible. 30-45 minutes between the two. That isn’t anywhere near enough to truly move the needle in any meaningful way.

Ottawa moved for two years to the CTC from Lansdowne during Reno’s. That is 30 minutes drive and it’s in the same city!

 

[Hammer9001]

I don’t understand the Hamilton Mississauga issue. It is a very minor change in the grand scheme of things. Almost negligible. 30-45 minutes between the two. That isn’t anywhere near enough to truly move the needle in any meaningful way.

Ottawa moved for two years to the CTC from Lansdowne during Reno’s. That is 30 minutes drive and it’s in the same city!

The core crux of the argument is Ottawa has it harder then Sudbury, Kingston harder then North Bay and Peterborough harder then Barrie, so give them them easier ride to Mississauga instead, while making Hamilton and Niagara's travel better as well.

Before we even get into the horror of Toronto traffic.

 

[OMG67]

The core crux of the argument is Ottawa has it harder then Sudbury, Kingston harder then North Bay and Peterborough harder then Barrie, so give them them easier ride to Mississauga instead, while making Hamilton and Niagara's travel better as well.

Before we even get into the horror of Toronto traffic.

45 minutes doesn’t make a difference in the big picture. Making moves like that require board approval etc. Mississauga wouldn’t want to do it. They may be the most hard pressed financially in the league. Lowest attendance. Lowest revenue. making it more difficult for them to save the East Division 30-45 minute drive 3 times per season wouldn’t be reasonable.

 

[Hammer9001]

45 minutes doesn’t make a difference in the big picture. Making moves like that require board approval etc. Mississauga wouldn’t want to do it. They may be the most hard pressed financially in the league. Lowest attendance. Lowest revenue. making it more difficult for them to save the East Division 30-45 minute drive 3 times per season wouldn’t be reasonable.

You don't get to say in the same breath that 45 minutes doesn't make a difference and then say "You're making it more difficult for the team with bad attendance."

Mississauga has the easiest travel overall in the entire league. They are the least effected by any divisional change, and the effect on Mississauga is negligible as Oshawa is closer to them then Barrie, Peterborough is further then Niagara, Kingston is closer then North Bay and Ottawa is further then Sudbury.

Again, there is a net benefit, and you are helping teams with the worst travel who should be accommodated.

 

[OMG67]

You don't get to say in the same breath that 45 minutes doesn't make a difference and then say "You're making it more difficult for the team with bad attendance."

Mississauga has the easiest travel overall in the entire league. They are the least effected by any divisional change, and the effect on Mississauga is negligible as Oshawa is closer to them then Barrie, Peterborough is further then Niagara, Kingston is closer then North Bay and Ottawa is further then Sudbury.

Again, there is a net benefit, and you are helping teams with the worst travel who should be accommodated.

Ottawa travels dozens of hours per year. The point is, it is meaningless for them to add 2 hours to their schedule over the course of a season. Keep in mind that if there is a division swap, Sudbury and North Bay also would have to eat that extra 30-45 minutes and both of those franchises are in a similar situation as Ottawa.

The League has one market issue and that is Mississauga. They trail the league in attendance by a wide margin. They have low revenues. Until that team finds a more suitable market, it is more meaningful for the league and that franchise to keep its operating expenses as low as possible. Being in that division is helpful for that team.

Hamilton moved from Belleville to Hamilton knowing what the agreement was. They have no claim on anything.

So, what is best for the league? Ottawa making three trips 30-45 minutes closer or a franchise remaining stable enough in the interim until they find a more suitable location?

There is a viable counter argument for all relocation options, even the Mississauga - Hamilton argument which is probably the least meaningful move for all 20 OHL teams.

Until a team is added through expansion or a team like Mississauga moves, there is no sense in making changes. If Mississauga moves into the East region to Cornwall then it makes sense to realign. But if they move further West, we end up moving Hamilton back to the East. Wait it out.

 

[Otto]

Ottawa travels dozens of hours per year. The point is, it is meaningless for them to add 2 hours to their schedule over the course of a season. Keep in mind that if there is a division swap, Sudbury and North Bay also would have to eat that extra 30-45 minutes and both of those franchises are in a similar situation as Ottawa.

The League has one market issue and that is Mississauga. They trail the league in attendance by a wide margin. They have low revenues. Until that team finds a more suitable market, it is more meaningful for the league and that franchise to keep its operating expenses as low as possible. Being in that division is helpful for that team.

Hamilton moved from Belleville to Hamilton knowing what the agreement was. They have no claim on anything.

So, what is best for the league? Ottawa making three trips 30-45 minutes closer or a franchise remaining stable enough in the interim until they find a more suitable location?

There is a viable counter argument for all relocation options, even the Mississauga - Hamilton argument which is probably the least meaningful move for all 20 OHL teams.

Until a team is added through expansion or a team like Mississauga moves, there is no sense in making changes. If Mississauga moves into the East region to Cornwall then it makes sense to realign. But if they move further West, we end up moving Hamilton back to the East. Wait it out.

Something has to give soon on this. The arena deal is done this year and the Steelheads can't keep bleeding money. With the Bulldogs moving to a less desirable arena even if it is thought to be temporary, I can see Cornwall becoming more and more a viable option.

Regarding expansion, I've said it before... I just can't see it happening within the next 10 years. Really to balance it out you'd need 4 teams, and I think even 2 is a stretch when we are coming out of a pandemic and inflation is at an all time high

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Something has to give soon on this. The arena deal is done this year and the Steelheads can't keep bleeding money. With the Bulldogs moving to a less desirable arena even if it is thought to be temporary, I can see Cornwall becoming more and more a viable option.

Cornwall is being rumoured for a potential ECHL relocation with a NB based Q team moving to Trois Riviere. and then the Lions moving to Cornwall- so that would take them out of the OHL conversation - there is not a lot of success of teams sharing buildings with pro leagues -- one of the two generally suffer.

 

[Hammer9001]

Something has to give soon on this. The arena deal is done this year and the Steelheads can't keep bleeding money. With the Bulldogs moving to a less desirable arena even if it is thought to be temporary, I can see Cornwall becoming more and more a viable option.

Regarding expansion, I've said it before... I just can't see it happening within the next 10 years. Really to balance it out you'd need 4 teams, and I think even 2 is a stretch when we are coming out of a pandemic and inflation is at an all time high

Realistically though, if and when the Steelheads move is the time this discussion should be had. Even the one swap I suggest for Hamilton and Mississauga (which, yes makes way more sense for it to happen if they move to Cornwall) we don't honestly know what ownership in Mississauga is considering.

 

[OMG67]

Something has to give soon on this. The arena deal is done this year and the Steelheads can't keep bleeding money. With the Bulldogs moving to a less desirable arena even if it is thought to be temporary, I can see Cornwall becoming more and more a viable option.

Regarding expansion, I've said it before... I just can't see it happening within the next 10 years. Really to balance it out you'd need 4 teams, and I think even 2 is a stretch when we are coming out of a pandemic and inflation is at an all time high

I think expansion by one team is possible because I don’t believe it needs to be balanced. However, I just don’t see it being viable for a myriad of other reasons, most notably the lack of access to viable markets.

Technically speaking, Cornwall is possible but is not a viable solution without a new rink. They could do a similar move as Niagara where they play out of a temporary rink but I’ve not heard any rumblings of a new rink in the works or even a meaningful Reno of the existing. So, I’m not sure of anything is even possible in that regard.

I don’t think there are 20 OHL markets. I think there are more like 16-18 with show horns helping the foot get into the shoe.

Realistically though, if and when the Steelheads move is the time this discussion should be had. Even the one swap I suggest for Hamilton and Mississauga (which, yes makes way more sense for it to happen if they move to Cornwall) we don't honestly know what ownership in Mississauga is considering.

Ownership in Mississauga should be considering all possibilities if we are being realistic.

 

[HockeyPops]

barring a bridge or tunnel replacing the ferry at Tobermory

Haha I like your out of the box thinking, but we still haven't been able to get a divided highway between Sudbury and the Soo, and only narrowly avoided closing the rail line between the two. A bridge or tunnel is so far down the list of priorities I couldn't even imagine an alternate reality where it was possible.

 

[Hammer9001]

Haha I like your out of the box thinking, but we still haven't been able to get a divided highway between Sudbury and the Soo, and only narrowly avoided closing the rail line between the two. A bridge or tunnel is so far down the list of priorities I couldn't even imagine an alternate reality where it was possible.

I mean, you do you really need a divided highway to Sudbury if you can drive to the Metropolis of Tobermory?

Yeah, last I checked Ontario was still trying to expand the 400 between Sudbury and Barrie and Parry Sound first before tackling doubling the Trans Can in a meaningful way. I believe that still has around 70km left to go.

 

[AttackSound]

I mean, you do you really need a divided highway to Sudbury if you can drive to the Metropolis of Tobermory?

Yeah, last I checked Ontario was still trying to expand the 400 between Sudbury and Barrie and Parry Sound first before tackling doubling the Trans Can in a meaningful way. I believe that still has around 70km left to go.

The idea would work if they plan on using a slingshot from Soo to Tobermory, the real question would be who would foot the bill for that? Once October hits Owen Sound Transit Co. closes till spring.

 

[HockeyPops]

Maybe global warming will allow for a year round ferry