Why is Monahan on the 4th line?

[TheHudlinator]

I think it will. He is learning how to grunt it out while he gets his legs back. His scoring will return because that's something that's God given.

I also wonder if he was injured to a degree by that from behind hit from Sack Kaasian in the first game.

I mean I heard the same thing about Bennett and it never happened. Some guys need to play with skilled players to produce and I think Monahan is one of those guys. I like Sutter and we are playing better than under useless Ward but I think a spot change for Monahan will help lead to more wins in the future then having Ritchie in that spot.

 

[Fire Treliving]

I legit think it's because of the potential Eichel trade.

They can't afford Monahan getting hurt, but since the (potential) trade is going to take a while to complete, they can't sit him for who knows how long either.

 

[iginlafan77]

5 games in, 0 points, -4 and only 6 shots.

While playing with Lucic and Lewis. Can't judge him on points only when he's stuck with that

 

[Nanuuk]

I mean I heard the same thing about Bennett and it never happened. Some guys need to play with skilled players to produce and I think Monahan is one of those guys. I like Sutter and we are playing better than under useless Ward but I think a spot change for Monahan will help lead to more wins in the future then having Ritchie in that spot.

I'm certainly not in favour of keeping him down there. I think he was perhaps hurt by the Sack Kassian hit from behind and needs time to get himself up to speed.

Certainly his FO% 45.8 is the lowest of the four centres on the roster. His CF% isn't bad (16th on the team). His PDO is 19th on the team (just above Zadorov) meaning he isn't shooting (makes me wonder about his wrists again), he is second on the team in takeaways (I see this as a sign of working hard) with only 1 giveaway (I see this as a sign of puck protection).

And he's thrown 6 hits already (one per game).

Speaking of hits and perhaps why Ritchie is being spotted higher up the line-up, Ritchie has 11 (4th on the team), trailing Looch (17), Lewis (12), and Coleman (12). Gudbranson has 10, Pitlick has 9.

So discounting the D, most of the hits are coming from the 3 and 4 lines. Perhaps Sutter is looking to even that out a bit. Another possible reason for Ritchie playing that high up is to keep the 'heat' off of the rising stars of Mangiapane and Dube. I'm not seeing too much in the way of head hunting going on against those two. And you have to know if they continue to have success, they'll need a body guard.

 

[HighLifeMan]

The team was incredibly unlucky to start the season to not have a win in those first two games and as a result few changes were made. The bounces started going our way and we haven't lost since. Sutter is not one to change a winning lineup even though it's blatantly obvious that Ritchie and Monahan are not slotted properly.

I think people are reading far too much into this.

 

[joescores]

His current existence on the ice encompasses the way he speaks. Hope he gets his shit together soon. Come on mate

 

[ORRFForever]

He knows what he did

My laugh for the day.

 

[iginlafan77]

In terms of xG, the flames best line so far is Monahan-Mangiapane-Dube.
Ritchie really is dragging down Mangi and Dube. Whether it's Dube or Monahan at Center, swapping Ritchie for Monahan has a much higher chance of giving good results

 

[Anglesmith]

In terms of xG, the flames best line so far is Monahan-Mangiapane-Dube.
Ritchie really is dragging down Mangi and Dube. Whether it's Dube or Monahan at Center, swapping Ritchie for Monahan has a much higher chance of giving good results

Off the top of my head, that line probably has about 30 seconds together on the season.

Ritchie definitely does bring down the line, mostly because of his slow feet in the defensive zone. Ritchie is the weak link that allows them to be hemmed in for extended shifts. I do like his game in the other areas though.

If Richardson is healthy and the Flames actually lose a game, I wonder if we saw Richardson swapped in to push Monahan up the lineup.

 

[iginlafan77]

Off the top of my head, that line probably has about 30 seconds together on the season.

Ritchie definitely does bring down the line, mostly because of his slow feet in the defensive zone. Ritchie is the weak link that allows them to be hemmed in for extended shifts. I do like his game in the other areas though.

If Richardson is healthy and the Flames actually lose a game, I wonder if we saw Richardson swapped in to push Monahan up the lineup.

That line has 16 minutes together at 5v5. Obviously that isn't a huge sample size, but it isn't nothing. I wouldn't mind Richardson as the 4th line center. I think he's a more effective player overall than Lewis.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Coleman-Backlund-Pitlick
Mangiapane-Dube-Monahan
Lucic-Richardson-Ritchie

 

[DFF]

That line has 16 minutes together at 5v5. Obviously that isn't a huge sample size, but it isn't nothing. I wouldn't mind Richardson as the 4th line center. I think he's a more effective player overall than Lewis.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Coleman-Backlund-Pitlick
Mangiapane-Dube-Monahan
Lucic-Richardson-Ritchie

I think Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie and Lucic should rotate.

 

[Body Checker]

Team is winning right now so hard to complain however I like the thought of Pelletier in February as a linemate of Monohan.

 

[iginlafan77]

I think Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie and Lucic should rotate.

Yeah I wouldn't really have much objection to that, as long as we're keeping those players out of the top 9

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

.
Ritchie really is dragging down Mangi and Dube. Whether it's Dube or Monahan at Center, swapping Ritchie for Monahan has a much higher chance of giving good results

Dube's underlying numbers have being trending up every game for five games. Last game he had the best fancy stats on the Flames.

People really need to look at the overall trends - the sample size is highly skewed by many factors.

 

[iginlafan77]

Dube's underlying numbers have being trending up every game for five games. Last game he had the best fancy stats on the Flames.

People really need to look at the overall trends - the sample size is highly skewed by many factors.

25, 0, 59, 52, 54 is Dube's CF% in the last 5.
It's encouraging that they've gotten away from the absolutely awful couple of numbers against Detroit and Washington, but I don't think that changes the fact that the Ritchie-Dube-Mangiapane line isn't working.

In 42 minutes that line has 44% CF%, 35% xG%.
In 24 minutes with Dube and Mangiapane but not Ritchie, it's 54% and 61%.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

25, 0, 59, 52, 54 is Dube's CF% in the last 5.
It's encouraging that they've gotten away from the absolutely awful couple of numbers against Detroit and Washington, but I don't think that changes the fact that the Ritchie-Dube-Mangiapane line isn't working.

In 42 minutes that line has 44% CF%, 35% xG%.
In 24 minutes with Dube and Mangiapane but not Ritchie, it's 54% and 61%.

The factors you're ignoring

1) Score effects. Flames trailed for much of the game in game 1 (Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube) but did not trail at all, and led almost the whole way in games 3-7. Playing with a lead drops possession stats

2) Dube at centre. He needed time to get acclimated to the position, which is going to affect his underlying stats. Doesn't matter ifnyou put prime Marian Hossa on RW instead of Ritchie, the centre still has a job to do.

3) Road vs Home. Dube-Monahan-Mangiapane played game 2 at home, which will boost their undelyings. They've played games 3-7 all on the road

4) Hanifin's injury in game 7. The drop from Hanifin to Stone is not insignificant.

I'm not pumping Ritchie as the answer. But Dube's line is trending upwards. The fact that they led the Flames with 60% CF (SVA) last game is a huge sign of improvement. It's a sign Dube might even be a capable 2C as we have insinuated for a while now

 

[iginlafan77]

The factors you're ignoring

1) Score effects. Flames trailed for much of the game in game 1 (Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube) but did not trail at all, and led almost the whole way in games 3-7. Playing with a lead drops possession stats

2) Dube at centre. He needed time to get acclimated to the position, which is going to affect his underlying stats. Doesn't matter ifnyou put prime Marian Hossa on RW instead of Ritchie, the centre still has a job to do.

3) Road vs Home. Dube-Monahan-Mangiapane played game 2 at home, which will boost their undelyings. They've played games 3-7 all on the road

4) Hanifin's injury in game 7. The drop from Hanifin to Stone is not insignificant.

I'm not pumping Ritchie as the answer. But Dube's line is trending upwards. The fact that they led the Flames with 60% CF (SVA) last game is a huge sign of improvement. It's a sign Dube might even be a capable 2C as we have insinuated for a while now

You're absolutely right, the stats I'm throwing out miss a huge amount of context.

But overall I'd agree with the sentiment of your post. Dube looks promising, and I think he stays at 2C. But I think he needs Monahan on his line, not Ritchie.

 

[KaraLupin]

Is this dude done? Been a few more months now and still really nothing..

 

[Rubi]

Is this dude done? Been a few more months now and still really nothing..

He's not done but I think last year's hip injury affected him more than people realize... last year and his recovery this year.
Plus, his confidence is in the dumpster. He has a career 14.1 Shooting% and this year he's shooting at 8.4%. He just can't catch a break most nights it seems.

 

[TheHudlinator]

He's not done but I think last year's hip injury affected him more than people realize... last year and his recovery this year.
Plus, his confidence is in the dumpster. He has a career 14.1 Shooting% and this year he's shooting at 8.4%. He just can't catch a break most nights it seems.

Yea most people seem to act like if he isn't a 1st line guy he is an ahl guy. He is perfectly fine #3 C

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

He has had his flashes. He’s been very average this season, but not bad by any means.

 

[Volica]

With how Lucic - Monahan - Toffoli have looked, PLUS his demotion to the second unit PP:

Over under: 9.5 points in the remaining 31 games.

His current trend would have him a 13 more points scored in the remaining games.

 

[Body Checker]

Monohan is getting his skating stride back. He seems to be quicker out there at this point in the season.

 

[joescores]

Needs to be traded in the next 3 weeks

 

[DFF]

With how Lucic - Monahan - Toffoli have looked, PLUS his demotion to the second unit PP:

Over under: 9.5 points in the remaining 31 games.

His current trend would have him a 13 more points scored in the remaining games.

All 3 need heavy PP time to produce. Only Toffoli is getting it.

Monahan and Lucic are baggage at this point