Why do we hate all our coaches?

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Beacon, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. Edge

    Edge Kris King's Ghost

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    Can't help but feel the same re: Torts.

    We also tend to view coaches like we view Presidents --- more favorable after they're no longer in charge.
     
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  2. McRanger

    McRanger Registered User Sponsor

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    99.99% of the time when someone says "I could have done a better job" than a professional its gross exaggeration. The professional might have messed up or under performed but saying that some rando with no experience can do better is usually nonsense.

    But there are exceptions. I legitimately believe if you gave some nerdy fanboy a pen and paper he could have crafted a better version of the star wars prequels. That's not to say he could do it without the foundation already there, but in that moment the end results were so bad that I honestly can't say that there is not massive room for improvement, even if its just by accident.

    I think if any knowledgeable fan had taken over AV's brain, just against Ottawa, there's a decent chance we might have won the series. Its not like AV is known for motivational speeches, timely time outs or in game adjustments anyway. You would literally just have to play the best players more and not play a few players in the last few minutes of the game. That's what separates AV from most coaches and causes such ire among fans. Basically, the 2017 Ottawa series is the star wars prequels of coaching. And AV never seemed to acknowledge things were going poorly. Him putting Glass out there at the end of the game, a place even his biggest fans would admit he never belongs, was such a stubborn F YOU to everyone that I am almost in awe by it.
     
  3. SnowblindNYR

    SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    Torts would also rather lose 2-1 than win 6-4.
     
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  4. SnowblindNYR

    SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    I was making a point about changing direction from 2012 wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
     
  5. JT Kreider

    JT Kreider FIRE AV

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    You mean when Sather blew up everything that Torts had been building for 4 years and then everyone wonders why he was a bad fit (or lost the room whatever) the next season?

    And that includes building McDonagh up as a perennial Norris winner but all it took was one season under AV for McDonaghs play to dramatically fall off a cliff.

    All good for Torts though. He has his new perennial Norris winner in Seth Jones.
     
  6. SnowblindNYR

    SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    Yeah, he blew it up and built FAR better teams in 2014 and 2015. McDonagh also had his best season under AV.
     
  7. Crease

    Crease Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court

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    Not that I think coaches are beyond reproach, but they have a whole heckuva lot more information (e.g. practices, off-ice, personal, health) than we do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  8. Inferno

    Inferno Registered User

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    Never wanted torts gone. One of my all-time favorite coaches.
     
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  9. ReggieDunlop68

    ReggieDunlop68 hey hanrahan!

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    And before they are in charge since they will fix everything once the person causing everything bad is canned and the age of Aquarius can begin.
     
  10. Nopuckluck

    Nopuckluck Registered User

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    One of the most ridiculous things I’ve read on this forum. I hope you were being tongue-in-cheek. TORTS WAS ALL ABOUT WINNING AND IN MY 40 years of watching games NO RANGERS TEAM PLAYED HARDER THAN HIS OR HERB BROOKS “smurf” teams

    That’s all I want from my coaches. To make their players play hard.
     
  11. SA16

    SA16 Sixstring

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    It's because they're bad at the obvious and simple things. Football coaches don't understand 4th down conversion/2 point conversion probabilities/clock management. Baseball coaches don't understand how to make a batting order, that pitchers get far worse third time through the order, and how to properly handle splits. Hockey coaches have trouble slotting players in the lineup, staying aggressive, and giving their best players much more ice time than their worst players.

    Many of these things may not matter as much as other things they do (implementing systems, handling the room, mid-game tactical adjustments) but most of them are blatantly obvious and already mathematically proven and there is no excuse to get them wrong.

    That and the qualification for many of them to be in their role is "was a former player."
     
  12. SnowblindNYR

    SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    Maybe they were not talented enough to do it, but I don't remember his teams opening it up, EVER. If the team was down 2, you might as well change the channel. I remember towards the last few seasons with him might have spanned a few seasons, maybe it was only in 2012, the Rangers had some ridiculous record when scoring 4 goals, I think there might have been one loss to Ottawa 5-4 in a shootout. In large part was because those were good defensive teams. But also because the Rangers couldn't play in high scoring games. So every time the opponent scored a lot of goals we'd get blown out. Mind you, in 2012 in the regular season we allowed 5 goals like 3 times. And did it once or twice in the playoffs. So we didn't get many chances to lose 5-4, but the point is those teams never opened it up and could never win high scoring games.
     
  13. mattyd99

    mattyd99 Registered User

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    The last 2 coaches were beyond stubborn and it got both fired, and both are actually good coaches. Beyond that, what were we supposed to like? Renney got us going but never had another gear and I won't even start with anyone between him and Keenan or Neilsen.

    AV and Torts both could've been here longer if they adjusted with their rosters but they didn't.
     
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  14. Synergy27

    Synergy27 I only like it when it's dimed out.

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    This is the answer for me. The problem with AV was that it still seemed like he was fighting Torts' ghost the day he was fired (something he didn't have to do after his first year here).

    AV was brought in specifically to unleash the talent that seemed to be being stifled by the Torts system. The Rangers 100% needed that system when Torts first took over, but they grew out of it. Torts also seemed to ride his horses way too much, leading to fatigue in the playoffs.

    I truly believe that AV wins the Cup here is he didn't try to over compensate for Torts. Let the guys play offensively, but don't completely disregard defensive structure. Seek balance in ice time in January, but ride your ****ing horses in May. Keep Tanner Glass in the AHL - there's no excuse for that.

    In other words, adjust when warranted.
     
  15. Amazing Kreiderman

    Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    That goal by Karlsson from behind the goal-line was classic AV, right? ;)
     
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  16. All Might

    All Might Save Us

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    That was an embarrassing incident for the Canucks and he got hit with a heavy suspension. He ran the Sedins into the ground and made a good team at the time miss the playoffs by a decent margin.

    It does seem like he reformed tactically since joining Columbus though.
     
  17. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    I'm not taking this literally and I get what you're saying, he was a completely stubborn mule when it came to opening the offense. WHat AV did with D Torts was doing with O. At least with Torts, his players were more suited for the O system he was stubbornly clinging to (when he should have at least changed things up on OCCASION) whereas AV didn't have the horses and ran his D anyway
     
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  18. Inferno

    Inferno Registered User

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    Torts system in the ozone was basically...im gonna let you do what you want...as long as you get back and defend.

    It wasn't about loosening the reigns...he let them play. He just insisted they play defense too.
     
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  19. McRanger

    McRanger Registered User Sponsor

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    Torts liked a 2 man forecheck with the 3rd forward high and the defense practically in the neutral zone.

    It was good for slowing down the opposition and preventing odd man rushes. But the unsupported forecheck tended to wear down our forwards more than opposition defense, especially against better teams. Which was too bad because when those Torts teams actually got the puck they could really cycle it.
     
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  20. bobbop

    bobbop Henrik & Pop

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    Coachaes are like bananas. Perishable. They look great in the grocery store but after a while they start to smell. Eventually you toss one or two out.
     
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  21. egelband

    egelband Registered User Sponsor

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    No. He’d rather win 2-1 than win 6-4.
     
  22. egelband

    egelband Registered User Sponsor

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    O
    yep. Coaches rarely leave willingly. And even rarer where the fans say “don’t go!” Nature of the business.
    I guess we can say a coach is “a success” if he stays more than four or five seasons.
     
  23. Inferno

    Inferno Registered User

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    I was so upset when they fired torts. It really bothered me. A coach who held players accountable. I miss that. Hopefully the next guy will so that. I'll have an open mind.
     
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  24. True Blue

    True Blue Registered User

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    Or "loosing" your best defensive pairing (by far) in the last minute of the game??? I still cannot get over that one.
     
  25. True Blue

    True Blue Registered User

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    His teams played hard and no one even considered turning the other cheek (all the time).

    This most underappreciated thing about Torts tenure here, was his ability to get every ounce of success from his teams, which were not nearly as talented as the ones that AV had. That is the difference right there. Torts did more with less. AV did less with more.
     
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