OT: Why did we treat Larry Murphy so bad?

[Augustus]

There was nothing wrong with Berg.

except for his offensive and defensive deficiencies.

 

[Jatt]

Short Answer: Because Leafs fans eat under performing defensemen alive the same way Detroit does to goalies. It wasn't fair that it happened to Murphy though, he was mis-used here, I bet if Mike Murphy had Wayne Gretzky he would have thought "Gretzky eh? Hmm Let's put him on as a winger on our third line, have him mix it up along the boards and have him crunch the other defenseman on the forecheck, the other team won't ever see it coming." Kinda what he did with Larry.

 

[Stephen]

There was nothing wrong with Berg.

Berg got a ton of heat for his average/serviceable game because he seemed to have the physical tools to be much, much more, especially physically. I wonder if Cody Franson might have a similar problem considering the tools he has to work with and his lack of serious aggression.

 

[Sensorglitch]

You're looking at stats too much. Things that usually irritate fans the most are horrible giveaways (like McCabe) and looking horrible on the ice, which Murphy demonstrated with his poor skating. Murphy generated a lot of assists, but a lot of them were of the Jason Allison variety.

Even in the 96-97 season when he was supposedly so horrible he had 39 points. Yet still, people loved Dmitri Yushkevich who was a whopping -24.

Though, I think one of the reasons why the Leafs didn't do so well was their play style at the time. As I recall, their forecheck was abysmal, which meant they went with a "run and gun" style offense, and Mr. Murphy wasn't about to be running anywhere. It forced him to make plays in a way he wasn't good at, and he got booed whenever he touched the puck. He might jut have been a bit of a prima donna and not have been able to deal with that in his head.

 

[Thee Attack]

Murphy WAS one of detroit's best defenders. Their #2, in fact.

1998-99 (Murphy was 37 years old)

1) Lidstrom: 26:31
2) Murphy: 24:15
3) Chelios: 22:21
4) Krupp: 21:23
5) Gill: 18:45
6) Macoun: 17:30

Macoun was another one to up his play in the Detroit system.

 

[Stephen]

Even in the 96-97 season when he was supposedly so horrible he had 39 points. Yet still, people loved Dmitri Yushkevich who was a whopping -24.

Though, I think one of the reasons why the Leafs didn't do so well was their play style at the time. As I recall, their forecheck was abysmal, which meant they went with a "run and gun" style offense, and Mr. Murphy wasn't about to be running anywhere. It forced him to make plays in a way he wasn't good at, and he got booed whenever he touched the puck. He might jut have been a bit of a prima donna and not have been able to deal with that in his head.

Dmitri Yushkevich wasn't very well liked earlier in his tenure here. He became a fan favourite because he was a playoff warrior who was heroic against the Flyers in that upset in 1999, so it's hard to compare the point production of a heart and soul shot blocking penalty killing defenseman with a slow as molasses points compiler who loaded up on junk assists.

The Leafs also weren't much of a run and gun team at that point. They were just an old team with suspect compete level, a cast full of slow, declining muckers with suspect defensive coverage. Nick Beverley didn't get up to anything too offensive and Mike Murphy himself was quite a defensive coach who tried to win on defense and hard work. It wasn't until Pat Quinn came in that a more uptempo offensive game was installed with great success with Cujo in net to bail out the team.

 

[zeke]

Murphy played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Macoun played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Cujo played the same in Toronto and Detroit.


detroit just knows how to value players, while toronto worships goalies and hates defensemen.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Murphy played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Macoun played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Cujo played the same in Toronto and Detroit.


detroit just knows how to value players, while toronto worships goalies and hates defensemen.

Oh yeah because CuJo did so much better on the wings right?

 

[zeke]

Dmitri Yushkevich wasn't very well liked earlier in his tenure here. He became a fan favourite because he was a playoff warrior who was heroic against the Flyers in that upset in 1999, so it's hard to compare the point production of a heart and soul shot blocking penalty killing defenseman with a slow as molasses points compiler who loaded up on junk assists.

The Leafs also weren't much of a run and gun team at that point. They were just an old team with suspect compete level, a cast full of slow, declining muckers with suspect defensive coverage. Nick Beverley didn't get up to anything too offensive and Mike Murphy himself was quite a defensive coach who tried to win on defense and hard work. It wasn't until Pat Quinn came in that a more uptempo offensive game was installed with great success with Cujo in net to bail out the team.

Pat Quinn changed the style of play and rebuilt the defense corps from a bunch of stiffs into one of the most mobile and skilled dcorps in the league, turning the team into one of the best offensive squads in hockey for his tenure here.

Cujo had very little to do with it - the leafs didn't improve either in GAA or SV% with Cujo in net, but did improve both when they replaced Cujo with Belfour.

The hero worship overrating of Cujo here in toronto did help earn him that beauty contract with the Wings, though. Didn't work out so well, for some strange reason.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

There was nothing wrong with Berg.

First laugh Ive had all day. I actually needed that, thanks.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Murphy played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Macoun played the same in Toronto and Detroit.

Cujo played the same in Toronto and Detroit.


detroit just knows how to value players, while toronto worships goalies and hates defensemen.

Detroit plays a system that makes things easier on defencemen, and they have Lidstrom.

 

[zeke]

it seems like somehow every coach that toronto has ever had somehow institutes a system that makes defensmen look bad.

or maybe that's not true, and toronto fans in general don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to defensmen, and don't understand that every defenseman in hockey makes blunders and turnovers. (Hell, watch Pronger for a while....man, that guy wouldn't get any credit at all if he played in Toronto with all his turnovers.)

seems like a simpler explanation to me.

 

[mooseOAK*]

You realize that the Leafs had to pay a portion of Murphy's salary with Detroit and got zero in return, right? I am sure that GM's around the league didn't use dumb Leaf fans as their scouting departments.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

it seems like somehow every coach that toronto has ever had somehow institutes a system that makes defensmen look bad.

or maybe that's not true, and toronto fans in general don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to defensmen, and don't understand that every defenseman in hockey makes blunders and turnovers. (Hell, watch Pronger for a while....man, that guy wouldn't get any credit at all if he played in Toronto with all his turnovers.)

seems like a simpler explanation to me.

We had a great defensive system under Burns that made even less than great defenceman look great. Quinn pre lockout as well.

Did Murph, Maurice and now Wilson have a bad system or have bad players? Im sure either could be debated.

 

[zeke]

Don't ever understimate what the collective attitude of the biggest hockey market in the world can do to a player's rep, even amongst those in the know.

It got Cujo that hilarious contract, after all.

Iafrate, Gill, Murphy, Schneider, McCabe, Kaberle, Phaneuf.....man, this town just hates skilled defensemen. Every single elite skill dman we've ever had has been booed. It's hilarious.

Give them guys who can't skate like Lefebvre and Komisarek, though, and they all pop boners.

 

[Gallagbi]

Don't ever understimate what the collective attitude of the biggest hockey market in the world can do to a player's rep, even amongst those in the know.

It got Cujo that hilarious contract, after all.

Iafrate, Gill, Murphy, Schneider, McCabe, Kaberle, Phaneuf.....man, this town just hates skilled defensemen. Every single elite skill dman we've ever had has been booed. It's hilarious.

Give them guys who can't skate like Lefebvre and Komisarek, though, and they all pop boners.

Seriously? You think Komisarek is well liked in Toronto? Murphy couldn't skate, neither could Gill, but both were run out of town despite being good d-men.

 

[mooseOAK*]

That has to be the most pathetic troll that I have read in a long time. Why did all of those Kings fans like Jason Allison so much? He sucked as a Leaf.

Did you somehow disappoint a girlfriend who is a Leaf fan at some point in your life?

 

[Deuce Awesome]

That has to be the most pathetic troll that I have read in a long time. Why did all of those Kings fans like Jason Allison so much? He sucked as a Leaf.

Did you somehow disappoint a girlfriend who is a Leaf fan at some point in your life?

Are you referring to the guy above you? I thought he was spot on.

 

[Garbs]

This city worships the gritty tough guy who will drop his gloves and try to lay big hits.

How is that unlike any other city?

 

[StarBurns RIP]

Iafrate, Gill, Murphy, Schneider, McCabe, Kaberle, Phaneuf.....man, this town just hates skilled defensemen. Every single elite skill dman we've ever had has been booed. It's hilarious.

Borje Salming was never booed as far as I can remember. Tim Horton was revered here. I don't really remember the fans giving Iafrate a real hard time especially considering how inconsistent he was during his career as a Leaf. And when did the fans boo Tomas Kaberle?

 

[BillyD]

Borje Salming was never booed as far as I can remember. Tim Horton was revered here. I don't really remember the fans giving Iafrate a real hard time especially considering how inconsistent he was during his career as a Leaf. And when did the fans boo Tomas Kaberle?

ian turnbull never got booed either

 

[ULF_55]

ian turnbull never got booed either

It was sad watching Jim McKenny cry on the bench though!

 

[JAMmer124]

Don't ever understimate what the collective attitude of the biggest hockey market in the world can do to a player's rep, even amongst those in the know.

It got Cujo that hilarious contract, after all.

Iafrate, Gill, Murphy, Schneider, McCabe, Kaberle, Phaneuf.....man, this town just hates skilled defensemen. Every single elite skill dman we've ever had has been booed. It's hilarious.

Give them guys who can't skate like Lefebvre and Komisarek, though, and they all pop boners.

I'm too young to know anything about Lefebvre/Iafrate/Gill/Murphy/Schneider, but man...Komisarek IS hated, you post often enough, you should see the hate he gets.

Kaberle didn't really get hated on that much, I mean yeah he didn't shoot the puck or hit, but what he did he did world-class.

McCabe was an interesting one. When he was sending clappers into the net from the point and hipchecking guys ass over teakettle, he was a fan favourite, so it seemed. He was a little inconsistent, and that gaff against Buffalo didn't help at all.

Phaneuf gets hated on because he gets paid 6.5M and is human so he makes mistakes, it seems people expect perfection, or Crosby in defence form even. Still, hes a real good defenceman, and a lot of teams fanbases hate on some of their best players, its normal.

 

[BillyD]

It was sad watching Jim McKenny cry on the bench though!

true, but credit leafs fans with always holding greg hotham close to their collective bosom... seldom have we seen a play nurtured so lovingly

 

[Stephen]

or maybe that's not true, and toronto fans in general don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to defensmen, and don't understand that every defenseman in hockey makes blunders and turnovers. (Hell, watch Pronger for a while....man, that guy wouldn't get any credit at all if he played in Toronto with all his turnovers.)

seems like a simpler explanation to me.

That's a fair point to make, but then you look at the Leafs 1996-97 record, 30-44-8, and a goals against of 273 goals, and you figure Murphy probably wasn't helping the problem.