Why did Canada fail at 2006 Olympics?

[GMR]

It's still absolutely hilarious that Kris Draper made that team and Sidney Crosby didn't, lmfao. Crosby outscored him by 70 points that season and then 91 the next. That has to be one of the stupidest decisions in Hockey Canada history.

That was a strange one. Maltby spent some time with Canada as well. This was the height of Detroit's popularity, and Draper was considered a great PK man, with strong faceoff skills, experience, and speed. At that time, Canada seemed concerned about putting actual role players into checking roles on the national team. As we found out in 2010 and 2014, star players are willing to take 3rd/4th line roles to play on the national team.

I'm not sure Crosby would be a good checking forward at that time. He wouldn't be. But he should have been in the lineup somewhere. Exactly the type of player they'd need.

 

[Sentinel]

Canada also left very talented guys like Niedermeyer, Crosby, Staal, Spezza etc. at home while taking Kris motherf***ing Draper.

Kris motherf***ing Draper was awesome two years prior at the World Cup.

I don't understand why people are suggesting Kariya and Shanahan. Both were WELL beyond their prime.

The main reason: all of Canada's top talent simply did not deliver at that time. Heatley, Lecavalier, Pronger, Thornton, Iginla, Richards, Nash, and St. Louis all sucked.

 

[Treb]

Kris motherf***ing Draper was awesome two years prior at the World Cup.

I don't understand why people are suggesting Kariya and Shanahan. Both were WELL beyond their prime.

The main reason: all of Canada's top talent simply did not deliver at that time. Heatley, Lecavalier, Pronger, Thornton, Iginla, Richards, Nash, and St. Louis all sucked.

Out of prime Kariya and Shanahan had 85 and 81 points respectively, Draper had 32.

Anyway, the correct answer is Sidney Crosby, who had 102 points that season and had 16 points in 9 games at the WC.

 

[DeysArena]

1) Team Canada's talent pool was thinner than usual.
2) Many players were still rusty from the lockout season.
3) They chose players based on seniority rather than current performance.
4) They built a team to win in the pre-lockout NHL.

 

[Sentinel]

Out of prime Kariya and Shanahan had 85 and 81 points respectively, Draper had 32.

Anyway, the correct answer is Sidney Crosby, who had 102 points that season and had 16 points in 9 games at the WC.

Sidney Crosby was a rookie. It's a big "what-if." Ovechkin was Russia's MVP, but there is no guarantee Crosby would've been the same. Four years later he did not exactly set the OG on fire... until his OT goal.

Kariya / Shanahan and Draper had *slightly* different roles.

 

[Treb]

Sidney Crosby was a rookie. It's a big "what-if." Ovechkin was Russia's MVP, but there is no guarantee Crosby would've been the same. Four years later he did not exactly set the OG on fire... until his OT goal.

Kariya / Shanahan and Draper had *slightly* different roles.

Irrelevant. As long as he would have done better than Draper.

You don't need someone like Draper on a Olympic team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Lockout threw things for a loop. At that point, there was the 03-04 season from two years prior, a cancelled season and then just a couple months of 05-06 season. Made it more difficult than usual to tell who the top players were/players best situated for roles as far as who were top players maybe off to a slow start, who were formerly top players that were washed, who were the new wave of top players and who were just random young guys on a hot streak.

 

[Sentinel]

Irrelevant. As long as he would have done better than Draper.

You don't need someone like Draper on a Olympic team.

Draper and Maltby were integral part of the World Cup-winning team.

 

[Treb]

Draper and Maltby were integral part of the World Cup-winning team.

Henrique, Mangiapane and Brown were an integral part of this year WC-winning team, so I guess they should be on the Olympic roster in 2022 as well?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Henrique, Mangiapane and Brown were an integral part of this year WC-winning team, so I guess they should be on the Olympic roster in 2022 as well?

He was talking about the 2004 World Cup of Hockey that happened tight before the Lockout and is probably the world's most forgotten event ever, not the world championships.

 

[Treb]

He was talking about the 2004 World Cup of Hockey that happened tight before the Lockout and is probably the world's most forgotten event ever, not the world championships.

Same concept.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Same concept.

Canada had its "A" roster for the 2004 World Cup of Hockey is I think the point. I don't think it was considered a major tournament though since NHL Olympics had already happened.

 

[Theokritos]

Same concept.

The 2004 World Cup was a best-on-best tournament.

 

[86Habs]

Draper and Maltby were integral part of the World Cup-winning team.

Maltby was named to the 2004 WC roster but didn't play a single game. Agreed on Draper though.

 

[NyQuil]

At that time, Canada seemed concerned about putting actual role players into checking roles on the national team. As we found out in 2010 and 2014, star players are willing to take 3rd/4th line roles to play on the national team.

What is strange is that we already found that out in 2002 with guys like Lindros and Fleury playing checking roles in the bottom six.

I think it has more to do with Draper and Maltby playing key roles in Gold medal performances at the World Championships on big ice in 2003 as well as Draper again in 2004 at the World Cup.

IIRC, one of the action items that came out of the hockey summit discussions at Hockey Canada after Nagano was a desire to make WCs attendance more important in terms of determining spots on the best-on-best teams in order to attract better talent to those annual competitions and to get more international experience for those players.

Personally I assign more of the blame to the lack of scoring from the star players that did appear in 2006 as opposed to the old “blame Rob Zamuner” approach that haunted the 1998 iteration.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The hierarchy of importance (imo):

1) Olympics with NHL
2) Olympics with no NHL
3) World Cup/Canada Cup with Real Teams*
4) World Championships
5) Gimmicky 2016 "World Cup" that had fake teams

I know 2 and 3 are debatable.

*1976 and 1991 Canada Cup didn't have the Soviet "A" team (Soviets in '76 didn't care so they intentionally sent younger developmental players and in '91 amidst the ongoing dissolution of the USSR, all of the top players didn't go), considering USSR was 2nd best country in the world at the time, seems relevant to mention

 

[jigglysquishy]

So what are we considering the list of true best on best?
1981
1984
1987
1996
1998
2002
2004
2006
2010
2014

1972, 1976, and 1991 are close but not quite. 2016 is not.

This would result in the following victories
Canada x6
Soviets x1
Sweden x1
Czech Republic x1
USA x1

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

So what are we considering the list of true best on best?
1981
1984
1987
1996
1998
2002
2004
2006
2010
2014

1972, 1976, and 1991 are close but not quite. 2016 is not.

This would result in the following victories
Canada x6
Soviets x1
Sweden x1
Czech Republic x1
USA x1

It's rarely talked about, but the 1979 Challenge Cup (won by the USSR over the NHL All-Stars) should probably count.
1979 Challenge Cup (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's rarely talked about, but the 1979 Challenge Cup (won by the USSR over the NHL All-Stars) should probably count.
1979 Challenge Cup (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

1972 Summit Series and 1979 Challenge Cup can sort of count, mainly in a Soviet Union vs. Canada sense. For what it's worth, 1979 wasn't "Team Canada" although it was actually better because it included 3 NHL All Stars from Sweden (Salming, Nilsson and Hedberg). Canada did have all of its best players for it though (well maybe they should have chosen a 17 year old Wayne Gretzky too young for the NHL but playing in the WHA, but I don't think you'd ever see a 17 year old included on a Canadian "best on best" roster before they are eligible for NHL), and they were definitely in it to win it. Both of those were not international tournaments though (not that any other country would have been able to compete with Canada or USSR's best teams in the 70s anyways). Weirdly enough, having those non-Canadian guys on the NHL roster in '79 makes it a more forgotten, and thus "better" result from a Canada perspective.

What's wild is the 1980 "Miracle on Ice" came right in between USSR winning the '79 Challenge Cup against NHL All Stars and 1981 Canada Cup also against NHL All Stars, which tells you how good they were at the time and how crazy (and flukey...) it is that US Amateurs beat them in the 1980 Olympics (especially since Olympic Gold was heavily valued by the Soviets)

 

[Flair Hay]

It's still absolutely hilarious that Kris Draper made that team and Sidney Crosby didn't, lmfao. Crosby outscored him by 70 points that season and then 91 the next. That has to be one of the stupidest decisions in Hockey Canada history.

Draper wasnt the problem, he played his role fine. It was the top six guys that didnt get it done for this tourney. It was mentioned on this page, Bertuzzi, Thornton, Nash, Heatley all stunk

 

[jigglysquishy]

1972 doesn't count because only two countries took part, WHA wasn't included and Canada's three best players didn't join
1974 doesn't count because only two countries took part and the NHL wasn't invited
1976 I waffle on, but if the Soviets sent their B team then it doesn't count
1979 doesn't count because it was Canada + 3 Swedes vs. the Soviets
1991 doesn't count because the Soviets sent their B (or arguably their C) team
2016 doesn't count because Canada and USA were restricted from fielding their best team and team Europe is dumb

 

[WarriorofTime]

1972 doesn't count because only two countries took part, WHA wasn't included and Canada's three best players didn't join
1974 doesn't count because only two countries took part and the NHL wasn't invited
1976 I waffle on, but if the Soviets sent their B team then it doesn't count
1979 doesn't count because it was Canada + 3 Swedes vs. the Soviets
1991 doesn't count because the Soviets sent their B (or arguably their C) team
2016 doesn't count because Canada and USA were restricted from fielding their best team and team Europe is dumb

Yes, I think this is a fair statement. True "best on best" (for that that means) international ice hockey is limited to the list posted above with most of it limited to less prestigious "Canada/World Cups" that don't have quite the same stakes.... it is a shame.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Personally I assign more of the blame to the lack of scoring from the star players that did appear in 2006 as opposed to the old “blame Rob Zamuner” approach that haunted the 1998 iteration.

Very much this. Blaming the role players has to happen every time though, no matter what the superstars did in the tournament.

I’d like to say it’s a typical Canadian obsession when their roster failed, but I was in a discussion with a couple of European posters on the International boards not too long ago where the shutdown fourth line of Arvedson - Johansson - Axelsson was belatedly questioned regarding Sweden’s 2002 failure versus Belarus. I don’t really get it. As someone pointed out, Sweden snubbed Nylander and Huselius in favor of the likes of Påhlsson and Axelsson (as well as Jörgen Jönsson and Mika Hannula) in 2006, but you won’t hear it if the stars deliver, as they did that year.

Sometimes great players pulls a stinker in an elimination game versus an “inferior” team, or a goalie has the game of a lifetime, or lightning strikes, it’s part of the beauty of hockey. You know it was in the realm of possibilities that Canada would have fluked out early versus Team Latvia and an amazing game by Kristers Gudlevskis in 2014: in that case I’m sure that picking Chris Kunitz over Giroux or something like that would’ve been the reason that Canada failed to bring home gold, in many people’s eyes.

 

[Voight]

Part of it was due to it being a "gap Olympics" - kind of like the USA basketball team in 2004. One generation of stars/Gold winners were passing the torch to a new generation. By 2010 Crosby was a top 2 player, Weber was one of the best d-men in the league, Getzlaf/Perry had established themselves, Toews was emerging, Prongs, Iggy and Nieds were still elite and the last two left over form the previous generation.

Canada also left very talented guys like Niedermeyer, Crosby, Staal, Spezza etc. at home while taking Kris motherf***ing Draper.

It was hard to score against Draper. And for a classic 3rd liner, he didn't produce too bad.
But I sort of agree. I remember often the Canadian team was picked with an NHL regular season philosophy. They wanted their defensive forwards and their grinders in as well. If that is a mistake, I can't say. Probably depends on the game. Canada could certainly have picked more offense.

Draper was the reigning Selke winner in all fairness.

If I recall, alot of the players were friends with management. Rather than a transition a youth movement playing with veterans, the stuck with old grinders. I will never forget the pressor when it was asked why Crosby was not on the team. Answer was "he has plenty of opportunities to represent Canada in the future" which pissed me off. Meanwhile, Ovi was lighting it up on team Russia as a rookie.

In the end, the old veterans on that Olympic team just could not develop chemistry. Not sure if the 05 lockout had something to do with it.

If the NHL & IOC cant play nice, we may never see Crosby in the Olympics again

2022 is probably his last go around, if they make a deal.

Outside Boyle Brian Campbell is the only other name that came to mind to help Canada in that regard

Yea, it was weird time. By 2010 you had Weber, Keith and Doughty who had all established themselves as some of the best d-men in the league. In 2006 two were in the minors and one wasn't even in major junior yet.

 

[Sentinel]

Henrique, Mangiapane and Brown were an integral part of this year WC-winning team, so I guess they should be on the Olympic roster in 2022 as well?

There was a WC this year? Do you know the difference between WHC and WCH?