Who's ready for first pair minutes with Provy?

[eramosat]

No surprise that anyone and everyone associated with the Flyers is looking for the roadmap to move Andrew MacDonald into a new role, with less overall responsibility and playing time in important minutes.

The biggest barrier to doing so is that AMac plays first pair minutes with Ivan Provorov, along with responsibility for the vast bulk of the 5v5 minutes against opponent's best lines. Not easy to appoint a new partner with the choices available.

Which Flyer dee-man do you think is best up for the challenge? Or, what lineups would you try out to reach that eventual goal?

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[Rebels57]

Radko Gudas has been ready for 2 years.

i suspect Hagg can handle it based on his play style.

 

[eramosat]

Radko would be a good choice, no question he can handle it as well as any other option. He would maybe need to think about staying out of the penalty box...but I guess they could always return temporarily to older pairs. Leaving Hagg and Ghost for 2nd pair-ish 5v5 minutes? No issues there, as this season is proving.

So, Sanheim/Manning plus AMac, or similar, for 3rd pair. Seem's like a good idea. Maybe as soon as Sanheim is "good" enough to warrant playing away from Radko, and with lesser Manning or Amac, we will see this get tested out in-game.

 

[deadhead]

Don't think it matters, Provorov double shifts with Ghost a few times a game.
If you take MacDonald off the PK, once Sanheim settles in MacDonald will have the fewest minutes per game among the D-men.
I think Hakstol wants to rotate all three pairs evenly at ES, with Ghost getting the bulk of PP time, Provorov on the 2nd unit.
Provorov, Gudas, Hagg and Sanheim on the PK.

 

[eramosat]

Don't think it matters, Provorov double shifts with Ghost a few times a game.
If you take MacDonald off the PK, once Sanheim settles in MacDonald will have the fewest minutes per game among the D-men.
I think Hakstol wants to rotate all three pairs evenly at ES, with Ghost getting the bulk of PP time, Provorov on the 2nd unit.
Provorov, Gudas, Hagg and Sanheim on the PK.

I do think it matters.

There are ways to reduce AMac minutes via the PK. And also creative double-shifting.

But those are minor considerations...the biggest factor is 5v5 play against (usually) the very best forwards from the opposition. Until that bridge is crossed...well, it's business as usual. Which is doable...but I think the Flyers can do better, and do better this season.

 

[Magua]

Donald MacAndrew.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I do think it matters.

There are ways to reduce AMac minutes via the PK. And also creative double-shifting.

But those are minor considerations...the biggest factor is 5v5 play against (usually) the very best forwards from the opposition. Until that bridge is crossed...well, it's business as usual. Which is doable...but I think the Flyers can do better, and do better this season.

Until they change their perception of what Andrew MacDonald is, nothing will change. They believe he is a top pairing guy. Unless they change their perception of what one of the young players is, i.e. does the work, does the little things, respected in the room and across the league, etc.

 

[TCTC]

I don't know if we have that player, tbh. Ideally, you want a true #2 defenseman to complement your #1. A Vlasic/Seabrook type. Maybe at some point we can sign our own version of Anton Stralman because that's probably as close as we can get to a #2 defenseman.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Lest we forget everything that has happened lo these many (two+) years, very nearly anyone in our organization who can function mentally and ice skate would be an improvement for the top pairing over Andrew. I say "very nearly" because we still have Boxy on the books, and that would be a lateral move, or rather a circular move, like the water when you flush the toilet.

 

[eramosat]

Until they change their perception of what Andrew MacDonald is, nothing will change. They believe he is a top pairing guy. Unless they change their perception of what one of the young players is, i.e. does the work, does the little things, respected in the room and across the league, etc.

This is not a question of "they" and their perception...it's about yours. Do you think another player already deserves top-pair minutes against Crosby, McDavid et al...or not? If so, who is it? Hint: a simple answer is Radko but I and others would love to see other proposals outlined and defended

Btw, love both your avatars.

 

[deadhead]

You don't want to pair MacDonald with Ghost or Sanheim, so Provorov is the best bet.
They'll gradually reduce his minutes as Sanheim takes on more responsibilities.
Next year he'll be replaced by Myers (if he can stay healthy).

 

[whitstifier]

Gudas...

Provorov-Gudas
Gostisbehere-Hagg
Morin-Sanheim
MacDonald

Manning to the AHL forever

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

This is not a question of "they" and their perception...it's about yours. Do you think another player already deserves top-pair minutes against Crosby, McDavid et al...or not? If so, who is it? Hint: a simple answer is Radko but I and others would love to see other proposals outlined and defended

Btw, love both your avatars.

Oh, right, I got you now. I ... well, my answer is still the same, really - I'd rather see anyone up there than Andrew, and I'm not being sarcastic. He's got that Keystone Cops gene and he's always only a split second away from a catastrophe, and that's the problem - it's not that he can't play at all, it's that he can play for a while and then suddenly he ****s up royally and loses us momentum and then games and then my sanity. Provy is so steady that I think anyone we have who can play the right side would be fine with him. Except Boxy. Gudas is probably the right answer, though, at least for now.

 

[eramosat]

You don't want to pair MacDonald with Ghost or Sanheim, so Provorov is the best bet.
They'll gradually reduce his minutes as Sanheim takes on more responsibilities.
Next year he'll be replaced by Myers (if he can stay healthy).

just so I am clear...they are only reducing AMac minutes this year via less PK and creative double-shifting to reduce 5v%?

I think is the 50-50 proposition at this point. Which is why I am interested in other paths, which are basically preludes to next year's path for the inevitable.

 

[TCTC]

Gudas is better than MacDonald, but that doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman. He may be the most overrated player on the team right now.

 

[eramosat]

Oh, right, I got you now. I ... well, my answer is still the same, really - I'd rather see anyone up there than Andrew, and I'm not being sarcastic. He's got that Keystone Cops gene and he's always only a split second away from a catastrophe, and that's the problem - it's not that he can't play at all, it's that he can play for a while and then suddenly he ****s up royally and loses us momentum and then games and then my sanity. Provy is so steady that I think anyone we have who can play the right side would be fine with him. Except Boxy. Gudas is probably the right answer, though, at least for now.

"Anyone". Also has great value as discussion point. Don't think this is how NHL executives try stuff out...but who knows, the very first game Provy plays with anyone different than AMac at the opening faceoff, I cannot imagine the reaction here and elsewhere.

 

[eramosat]

I don't know if we have that player, tbh. Ideally, you want a true #2 defenseman to complement your #1. A Vlasic/Seabrook type. Maybe at some point we can sign our own version of Anton Stralman because that's probably as close as we can get to a #2 defenseman.

Yes, this is correct. Flyers do not have anyone who can step into this role without a big concern, except maybe Radko, which just shifts the concern dramatically.

Dee coaches have a huge task on their hands.

 

[eramosat]

Gudas is better than MacDonald, but that doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman. He may be the most overrated player on the team right now.

Maybe. Radko on the strength of his NHL play is at least as capable as any other Flyer dee right now playing time against opposition top lines. But I guess the proof is in the trying...

Will be very interesting to see where the Flyers head with their pairs.

 

[eramosat]

Gudas...

Provorov-Gudas
Gostisbehere-Hagg
Morin-Sanheim
MacDonald

Manning to the AHL forever

As long as Morin actually proves his NHL capability, this could be fine. But higher-drafted players than he have bombed out, so I just want to see the proof before I buy it. May take longer than this season to prove, but as soon as injuries to the dee take place, this is an experiment we could see start happening.

 

[whitstifier]

Gudas is better than MacDonald, but that doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman. He may be the most overrated player on the team right now.

So ignore last season and the season before because of Gudas' slow start?

Gudas isn't overrated...

 

[whitstifier]

As long as Morin actually proves his NHL capability, this could be fine. But higher-drafted players than he have bombed out, so I just want to see the proof before I buy it. May take longer than this season to prove, but as soon as injuries to the dee take place, this is an experiment we could see start happening.

I'd be shocked if Morin weren't at least as good as MacDonald and Manning right now

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The Flyers willingly giving MacDonald more ice time than Gudas is dumb as hell.

Gudas must need to put the work in with his leadership reps.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Manning

 

[eramosat]

I'd be shocked if Morin weren't at least as good as MacDonald and Manning right now

I hope you don't get shocked. It's happened before, many times.

The Flyers willingly giving MacDonald more ice time than Gudas is dumb as hell.

Gudas must need to put the work in with his leadership reps.

Gudas was the clear "babysitter" up until the date of those stats. Since then, he's gotten much more minutes while still doing his baby sitting, just that his charges also got more minutes.

Still doesn't change the fact of Provy and AMac being the pair out against opposition top lines. And the only way to change that is to replace Amac entirely.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I hope you don't get shocked. It's happened before, many times.



Gudas was the clear "babysitter" up until the date of those stats. Since then, he's gotten much more minutes while still doing his baby sitting, just that his charges also got more minutes.

Still doesn't change the fact of Provy and AMac being the pair out against opposition top lines. And the only way to change that is to replace Amac entirely.

They had about equal ES time the Florida game. The Nashville game Gudas played over a minute more though. There’s still a fair margin on the entire season so far in gaps between ice time the two at ES & overall time. But yes Macdonald along with Provorov primarily matched up against both teams top lines. They actually didn’t grade out poorly statistically but there’s enough of a sample size to know that’s not going to last in the long run.