Whom you'd rather Draft: Carlsson or Michkov?

[majormajor]

Personally, I’d like to see you keep going all day.

Russian 1st round wingers from 2014 - 2020.

Scherbak
Goldobin
Gurianov
E Svechnikov
Rubtsov
Kostin
A Svechnikov
Kravtsov
Denisenko
Podkolzin
Amirov
Chinakhov

Perhaps someone should let these Russian wingers know that they are supposed to always find a way to be great.

Some of them might be late bloomers, and there is Andrei Svechnikov. But overall this is bust city.

 

[General Fanager]

If you are a team in full rebuild its Michokv cause you can wait for him. If you are looking to get better faster then its Carlsson.

Just talent vs talent.....its Michkov.

 

[Castle8130]

If I'm a GM, I'm drafting Carlsson and keeping my job lol. Michkov's the superior talent though

 

[ViD]

Russian 1st round wingers from 2014 - 2020.

Scherbak
Goldobin
Gurianov
E Svechnikov
Rubtsov
Kostin
A Svechnikov
Kravtsov
Denisenko
Podkolzin
Amirov
Chinakhov

Perhaps someone should let these Russian wingers know that they are supposed to always find a way to be great.

Some of them might be late bloomers, and there is Andrei Svechnikov. But overall this is bust city.

Pretty sure you can compile a similar list to every nation with 10-20% elite, 30% ok players and 60% low to bust level.

It’s just that Russia produces wingers more often than other positions

 

[CBJx614]

People obsessing over old results in U18 tournaments are looking at the wrong thing. These prospects all mature at different paces, and peak at different times.

I watched every scrap of video I could for Leo's SHL games and Michkov's KHL games, and I think Carlsson is a better player right now and will translate much better to the NHL. I think the shine on Michkov is coming off vs NHL defenders. He already looks much weaker vs good KHL defenders - his best performances in the KHL were vs players that didn't belong in that league - or for instance the Team China goalie for Kunlun who put up an .815. Small players frequently dominate in KHL scoring and you have to ask how they look vs the best defenses to get a better sense of how they might project to the NHL.

I can see Michkov scoring 40-50 pts per year on an NHL PP, maybe scoring 40+ goals total, but my guess is that people are going to be very disappointed in his overall value even if the points come. He doesn't have the skating or strength to carry the puck vs good defenders, he's not going to carry a team like Kaprizov can. He'll be more situational. I could see playstyle and value somewhere intermediate between Kucherov and DeBrincat but with worse defense. It's also still an open question how Michkov fits in to an established offense where the puck doesn't run through him.

Leo Carlsson is one of the safest bets to be an all-around #1C that you'll ever find. And I don't think his upside is lower than Michkov's either. There's no category where I'm pulled towards Michkov here.

Something else that nobody here has even mentioned is the character. When you're drafting top 5 and building around that kid, character and who they are off the ice is just as important. All reports suggest that Carlsson is a stand up kid who is loved in the locker room, meanwhile you don't exactly here the same things about Michkov.

That plus the position they play is the deciding factor for me. There isn't a wide enough skill gap to take the risk of Michkov.

 

[majormajor]

Pretty sure you can compile a similar list to every nation with 10-20% elite, 30% ok players and 60% low to bust level.

It’s just that Russia produces wingers more often than other positions

In the 1st round? I doubt it. Most 1st rounders end up better than bust level.

 

[ViD]

Something else that nobody here has even mentioned is the character. When you're drafting top 5 and building around that kid, character and who they are off the ice is just as important. All reports suggest that Carlsson is a stand up kid who is loved in the locker room, meanwhile you don't exactly here the same things about Michkov.

That’s pure speculation based on nothing but hearsay.

In the 1st round? I doubt it. Most 1st rounders end up better than bust level.

you also gotta take the KHL factor into account, while North American players might stay in the league to be role players, some Russian players willl choose to leave for the KHL for a better contract and being close to home. Are they still good enough to play in the NHL? Yes. But you’d look at the fact he left the league and therefore is a bust

 

[CBJx614]

That’s pure speculation based on nothing but hearsay.


you also gotta take the KHL factor into account, while North American players might stay in the league to be role players, some Russian players willl choose to leave for the KHL for a better contract and being close to home. Are they still good enough to play in the NHL? Yes. But you’d look at the fact he left the league and therefore is a bust

Hearsay from scouts carries more weight than just random rumblings.

Are There Character Concerns With Matvei Michkov?

Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News alluded to these character concerns in January: “Scouts have started to bring up character issues with Michkov.”

Beyond that, there’s been nothing concrete, no details, at least stateside, about these alleged character concerns.

“I keep hearing character concerns. I ask, can I ask what they are? I get nothing. I get nothing of substance,” an NHL scout from outside the San Jose Sharks organization told San Jose Hockey Now last month. “Part of me thinks some of it is disingenuous, trying to manipulate the Draft. Like I’m sure Washington [at No. 8] would be very happy to have him come there.”

So is it all a smoke screen? Well…
That same scout, we’ll call him Scout #1, added, “There’s definitely a maturity factor there. I’ve asked some people that have met him, and they’re like, he’s kind of an asshole. I hear that a lot.”
“Cocky” is how Scout #2 described what he’s heard internally, in his organization, about Michkov.
“I’ve heard he’s not the nicest person,” Scout #3 told SJHN.
“Entitled” is how an independent KHL source described Michkov.

But again, any specifics?
“He would [get on] the older KHL guys if they didn’t pass him the puck. I mean he wasn’t wrong, but also that’s pretty ballsy for an 18-year-old kid to do,” Scout #2 said of Michkov’s very productive KHL campaign this past season. “You could see it happen live. Like PP stuff, guys passing him up for another option that doesn’t work out. He’d show frustration.”
He added: “You see it a lot from junior guys. Pretty unheard of for a guy at the pro level to do it at his age.”
That’s not the norm…but how bad is that?
“That’s where it’s tough because it won’t stop him from being really good,” Scout #1 interjected. “My experience with these guys is when they’re that competitive, they kind of mature. We all do, right? I do think he’ll grow as a person. I haven’t heard anything flagrant that he’s done.”
This isn’t the first time that this scout has seen a very talented prospect drop, then change the narrative about his character: “Phil Kessel had a lot of the same issues coming out. He went five [in 2006].
“Nick Schmaltz would be another one, Nick was immensely talented, slipped [to No. 20 in the 2014] Draft because of these issues, and I haven’t really heard any concerns since he’s been in the NHL.
“Brad Marchand, back in ’06, was like, man, this guy, kind of same thing, this guy’s an asshole. He’s chippy. He’s dirty.
“Now he’s like one of the ultimate leader-warriors in the league, and I hear wonderful things about what he does to mentor young guys.
“I’ve seen it where they get to NHL level, they’re surrounded by peers they respect.”
Scout #2 offered, “Fine line between swagger and arrogance. [Moritz] Seider had it and it came off well. Erik Karlsson had it and it rubbed some people wrong. [Trevor] Zegras had it and it rubbed people wrong.”
All said though, Michkov doesn’t sound like the best teammate right now.
Scout #1, who’s a big supporter of Michkov – he said last month, “If I were a Sharks fan and they pass on this kid, I’d be upset” – cautioned, “It’s tough. It is a team game.”
And not every character concern becomes Kessel or Karlsson or Zegras.
For every Erik Karlsson, there’s Ryan Merkley.

It really could go either way. Is he Filly don't do rebounds or does he take criticism as something he needs to work on?

 

[ViD]

Hearsay from scouts carries more weight than just random rumblings.

Are There Character Concerns With Matvei Michkov?




It really could go either way. Is he Filly don't do rebounds or does he take criticism as something he needs to work on?

Well, in his recent video interview, he did say he learned a lot once he got to play in the KHL and now he keeps listening to the older teammates about improving his game and life advice in general

 

[kp61c]

michkov. expect him to drop and be drafted by Philadelphia of Washington, though

 

[CBJx614]

Well, in his recent video interview, he did say he learned a lot once he got to play in the KHL and now he keeps listening to the older teammates about improving his game and life advice in venerable

It's definitely possible that he learns and grows(and he will) when he comes over, but it most certainly plays into the conversation when you're talking about drafting an 18 yr old kid. Someone who needs to grow as a person vs someone who already humble and can take criticism.

 

[ViD]

It's definitely possible that he learns and grows(and he will) when he comes over, but it most certainly plays into the conversation when you're talking about drafting an 18 yr old kid. Someone who needs to grow as a person vs someone who already humble and can take criticism.

I mean were Kobe and Michael great teammates? Absolutely not. Did their attitude bring the victories to their teams? Yes, it did

 

[ole ole]

Hearsay from scouts carries more weight than just random rumblings.

Are There Character Concerns With Matvei Michkov?




It really could go either way. Is he Filly don't do rebounds or does he take criticism as something he needs to work on?

There is nothing in what you have posted that shows, proves that Michkov has any character concerns. Just unfounded rumors.

 

[CBJx614]

There is nothing in what you have posted that shows, proves that Michkov has any character concerns. Just unfounded rumors.

Scouting reports aren't rumors. If it was some analyst saying something I would agree. But that's literally what scouts get paid to do...

 

[banks]

Michkov. You take the talent.

 

[norrisnick]

Michkov. You take the talent.

Quick semi-related question.

Who was more talented Sergei Fedorov or Brett Hull?

Or alternately...

What is defined as "talent"?

 

[banks]

Quick semi-related question.

Who was more talented Sergei Fedorov or Brett Hull?

I would have to do a ton of research to know what the pre-draft opinion was on both guys. I certainly don't know how they were viewed before either guy was even drafted.

 

[norrisnick]

I would have to do a ton of research to know what the pre-draft opinion was on both guys. I certainly don't know how they were viewed before either guy was even drafted.

Don't even worry about pre-draft foresight. Full hindsight appraisal of their careers is fine.

 

[banks]

Don't even worry about pre-draft foresight. Full hindsight appraisal of their careers is fine.

What would that have to do with Carlsson or Michkov?

I think you're trying to say the talented small winger isn't worth as much as the equally talented powerforward. And that's great.

But everything I've seen/heard about Michkov suggests the talent isn't equal by a long shot.

 

[norrisnick]

What would that have to do with Carlsson or Michkov?

I think you're trying to say the talented small winger isn't worth as much as the equally talented powerforward. And that's great.

But everything I've seen/heard about Michkov suggests the talent isn't equal by a long shot.

Is talent code for offense? That's part of what I'm trying to clear up here.

Like... Paul Kariya was really talented. But I wouldn't say he was a better hockey player or more talented than Chris Chelios.

 

[Hanji]

Scouting reports aren't rumors. If it was some analyst saying something I would agree. But that's literally what scouts get paid to do...

They are rumours until a name is attributed to the quote. "Scout X from team X told me...." is not proof of anything; espcially when it comes from Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News who well known for his dislike of Russian players.

AFAIK the only name attributed to criticism of Michkov is Nikolishin. But that's a weird situation b/c Nikolishin works for the Caps who would love to draft Michkov.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Michkov is better but wont be here for a few years and is In Russia.

But hey if you get to start michkov on his 3yr etc at 21 that may be better cuz he will make more impact on cheaper contract at that age. Rather than waste Carlsons at 18-20 before he is too impactful?

I doubt Michkov comes over before he is 22-24; unless I have missed information stating otherwise

 

[lawrence]

Carlsson. Better prospect, bigger frame, more important position, not Russian.

What do you mean by “not Russian” ?

 

[ZDH]

What do you mean by “not Russian” ?

He's not Russian.

He's not caught up in more potential bs from Putins madness and doesn't have a contract with a Russian team (you know, because he's russian) that gives prospective teams 3 years of absolutely no say on his development/ice time/development/usage/habits/etc.

There's a reason michkov is plummeting down draft boards out of the top 5 and it has every bit to do with where he was born over his talent. And rightfully so, these concerns are legitimate.

 

[majormajor]

They are rumours until a name is attributed to the quote. "Scout X from team X told me...." is not proof of anything; espcially when it comes from Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News who well known for his dislike of Russian players.

AFAIK the only name attributed to criticism of Michkov is Nikolishin. But that's a weird situation b/c Nikolishin works for the Caps who would love to draft Michkov.

We were talking about Michkov's character six months ago here. Word coming out of St. Petersburg was that he was pompous and entitled, rude to teammates. Nikolishin hasn't said anything not covered before.

Obviously scouts won't attach their names to harsh public criticisms, they don't talk that way about prospects on the record. There is a lot of misinformation too so I agree we should listen with a skeptical ear. Though typically if a prospect is being mischaracterized, then hockey people who know the player will speak up on their behalf, and we're not hearing that with Michkov.