I'd say Joe Primeau is the one name that is glaringly missing.BlueAndWhite said:Here's an interesting webpage:
http://www.tmlfans.ca/misc/top25.php
"A list of 14 esteemed hockey experts got together over the summer of 2001 and came up with a list of the top 25 Leafs players of all time. The committee of experts included: Milt Dunnell, George Gross, Scott Morrison, John Iaboni, Frank Orr and Brian McFarlane, Joe Bowen, Howie Meeker, Harry Neale, Mark Askin, Jim Gregory, Dan Diamond, Tommy Smythe and Frank Selke Jr. "
Badger Bob said:One name really doesn't belong on that list. BM67's list covers most the important names. Put Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark ahead of Sundin on any great Leafs list. If this makes sense, Sundin has been a great player, but not necessarily a great Leaf.
The problem with Clancy is that he spent a good chunk of his career with Ottawa, until Smythe bought him with his gambling winnings.God Bless Canada said:One name not mentioned yet (outside of the top 100 NHL list): King Clancy. A rock on the blueline and a class act off the ice.
Badger Bob said:You forgot to highlight Norm Ullman.
Points isn't the only method for measuring success.
* Gilmour, almost singlehandedly, led a few less-than-exceptionally talented Leafs teams to Conference Finals, at a time when they were still recovering from the damage of Hurricane Harold.
* Clark's motivation was 100% every shift .
Sundin was fortunate to play in Toronto during a free-spending times, for years, on teams loaded with talent. Did he help make his teammates play better like Gilmour? Did he dedicate himself to the game and the team the way Clark did?
Sundin's heart has been brought into question many times...and with good reason.
Badger Bob said:One name really doesn't belong on that list. BM67's list covers most the important names. Put Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark ahead of Sundin on any great Leafs list. If this makes sense, Sundin has been a great player, but not necessarily a great Leaf.
But nowhere does it say it's the greatest Leaf player. (Even though it may be implied). Clancy was a Leaf for more than four decades, first as a very successful player, then as a member of the organization. All things considered, he should be right up there.BlueAndWhite said:The problem with Clancy is that he spent a good chunk of his career with Ottawa, until Smythe bought him with his gambling winnings.
It's hard to determine if Clancy qualifies as a Leaf player or as a Senators player.
His four all-star seasons were in Toronto, however.
I think everyone agreed that we were talking about players, otherwise names like Smythe would have been brought up already.God Bless Canada said:But nowhere does it say it's the greatest Leaf player. (Even though it may be implied). Clancy was a Leaf for more than four decades, first as a very successful player, then as a member of the organization. All things considered, he should be right up there.
I wouldn't go back that far, but for a long time - he HAS been the heart and soul of the Leafs.go kim johnsson 514 said:im not using points as the only example but over the last 10 years it seems to me that Mats Sundin is the heart and soul of the team
BlueAndWhite said:Sundin's heart has only been questioned by the meatheads who can't deal with a European captain, particulary a finesse player. The same meatheads that have posters of Don Cherry in their homes. The same meatheads that call in after Leaf games and would rather have Domi be the captain. The same meatheads that resent Sundin that he was traded for their hero, Wendel Clark (a good Canadian kid!!)..
BlueAndWhite said:Here's another tidbit for you:
Sundin has the most game winning goals in Leafs history and he's got about 4 years of hockey left.
John Flyers Fan said:Sundin is so much better than Clark it's laughable.
habs_24x said:Couldnt have said it better myself. Well done.
Leaf Lander said:outsiders views of the leafs are normally tainted with hate and jealousy thusa corrupting the argument
Badger Bob said:Since you brought it up: THN ran a series of Q&A's from players anonymously a few years back. That allowed for many candid responses. One player said that there are certain European players who would be more interested in going back to their countries to win the World Championship than the Stanley Cup. Ya think Sundin might fit the profile?
When he was with the Sabres, Michael Peca used to say that all it took was a few early bumps to take Alexei Yashin out of a playoff game. Peca achieved similar results with Sundin.
Were your parents even dating when Wendel Clark was drafted? Ask some of the people around you about him. You probably weren't old enough to appreciate Gilmour's value either. The Leafs were a laughingstock for years. NOBODY did more to rescue the franchise in the early 90's. Whatever accolades you can dole out to Sundin, more credit is due to Gilmour for his value to the organization.
Good for him. Then he'll have had a decade and a half to elevate the team. The results will still be the same: no parade down Yonge St.
chooch said:Shayne Corson epitomized what the Leafs tradition is all about.
God Bless Canada said:In the end, though, the Leafs do have the most important number of all: 11. That's for Stanley Cups, second only to Montreal. I'd rather have 11 Stanley Cups and lesser players on my all-time team, than three or four Cups and a plethora of all-time greats (witness Boston and Chicago).