Prospect Info: Who is the Blues #6 Prospect - 2023

[Stupendous Yappi]

1) Dalibor Dvorsky - 82%
2) Jimmy Snuggerud - 93%
3) Joel Hofer - 39%
4) Zachary Bolduc - 59%
5) Otto Stenberg - 42%

The Blues acquired one more prospect between polls, so here is the final addition:
Biakabutuka, Jérémie

Click to read more...

 

[Majorityof1]

I voted for Dean. He had a monster QJMHL playoffs. He is really solid defensively, and he seems likely to stick at C. I've gone over why I like him in the other threads. But I'm sure I'll pump his tires more when I come back to argue with the Neighbours supporters.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I have this vague memory of Lee Corso trying to say "Biakabutuka". Anyone else?

 

[STL fan in MN]

All aboard the Dean train. Choo choo.

He was a really good return for Barby IMO. I think he’ll do very well in Springfield this year and earn some games with the Blues as a call-up.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I like neighbours here as a middle six forward. Probably Buchinger as a top 4 then Dean as a bottom 6.

 

[Mike Liut]

Dean and Neighbors are going to anchor our 3rd line in our next cup winning season in 2026

 

[Memento]

Easily Lindstein. Neighbours and Dean could top out as middle-six forwards who can anchor lines. Buchinger has offensive potential in spades. Alexandrov and Robertsson could continue to increase our stable of solid middle six/bottom-six forwards. However, Lindstein is my choice because he is, in my opinion, is our number one defense prospect, and - also my opinion - has the potential to be the top two left-handed shutdown defenseman we've all been looking for, since Bouwmeester was forced to retire.

He was regarded as the best defenseman in the 2023 Draft before Reinbacher, Simishev, Willander, and Sandin-Pellikka emerged. Hell, he was partially the reason why Willander and ASP emerged; he did the dirty work while they did the offense. He's as smooth a skater as you'll see from a defenseman, has a great stick, and his hockey IQ is brilliant. The only issue is his offense, but he has potential there. He's smart offensively, and he's actually got a hell of a shot.

He'll need to bulk up for the rigors of the NHL, but honestly, I'm almost more excited about Lindstein than I am about Stenberg. I'm thinking smaller Bouw as a comparison, if he hits his full potential. That's worth a late first any day, and that's a much better prospect than two middle-six forwards.

 

[Blueston]

I’m here for arguments in favor of Dean and Lindstein, although I’m still voting neighbours. But again not much space between these 3, Bolduc, and stenberg.

 

[Memento]

I’m here for arguments in favor of Dean and Lindstein, although I’m still voting neighbours. But again not much space between these 3, Bolduc, and stenberg.

I think Buchinger isn't far from them either. He's got top four potential, maybe even top three. But I think Lindstein could be special.

 

[ToastedRavioli]

Interesting to see the disparity in support between Stenberg and Lindstein. It's somewhat odd that Lindstein may go 3 spots later than Stenberg when they were taken in the same draft a month ago only four spots apart in the 20s.

I'd go with Dean here but I would have picked him last round as well. I think he has more upside than Neighbours. Dean is also a center. The main thing people mention with Neighbours is his NHL readiness. Neighbours got ~40 games in his D+3 year, which is a number I think Dean could also reach this year depending on how soon an opportunity arises from injuries. I also value upside more than NHL readiness. I think Dean is getting referred to as a safe prospect a bit too much. It's true that he has a pretty high floor thanks to his IQ and defensive capabilities, but I think people are understating his upside. He's not on the same level of Snuggerud, Dvorsky, or Bolduc, but I do believe his ceiling is in a similar level as Stenberg and Lindstein. He performed much better after the Barbashev trade and had an incredible playoffs (significantly better than Bolduc, even). I would have had Dean at fourth behind Snuggerud, Dvorsky, and Bolduc. I still think Hofer went way too high.

Someone in another thread said that if Dean was the one drafted by the Blues and Neighbours was the one acquired in a trade recently, that Dean would get much more support, which I think is likely true. People are just less familiar with him, especially with Neighbour's cup of coffee in the NHL.

 

[BlueOil]

jake from state farm

 

[Blueston]

Neighbours is being punished because he played his way onto roster before he was ready. If he had never made blues and left us with memories of him struggling, we would be ranking him much higher.

 

[stl76]

I think people are undervaluing Neighbours and over valuing Dean when talking about floor & ceiling. Dean had an incredible individual performance in the Q playoffs, but his junior scoring totals are nothing extraordinary. Jake's seasons were more impacted by COVID, but his per game scoring in junior was actually higher than Dean's.

I can see the "defensive game + center" argument for Dean, but it's not like Jake is a liability defensively and I really like his leadership/intangibles. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about Dean's ability to stay healthy at higher levels given his playstyle and size. I just don't see Dean's ceiling as significantly higher than Jake's and I think Jake has a higher floor and is more likely to hit his ceiling.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I’m here for arguments in favor of Dean and Lindstein, although I’m still voting neighbours. But again not much space between these 3, Bolduc, and stenberg.

I have Bolduc, Dean, Hofer, Lindstein, Neighbours, and Stenberg all on the same tier, so honestly, I can see arguments for any of them in basically any order.

 

[Majorityof1]

Neighbours is being punished because he played his way onto roster before he was ready. If he had never made blues and left us with memories of him struggling, we would be ranking him much higher.

I disagree. I think whatever negatives that has caused is more than offset by the people saying he is NHL ready because he has already played in the NHL. He's been gifted opportunities he doesn't deserve every step of his Blues career, and people think that means he deserves them.

I think people are undervaluing Neighbours and over valuing Dean when talking about floor & ceiling. Dean had an incredible individual performance in the Q playoffs, but his junior scoring totals are nothing extraordinary. Jake's seasons were more impacted by COVID, but his per game scoring in junior was actually higher than Dean's.

I can see the "defensive game + center" argument for Dean, but it's not like Jake is a liability defensively and I really like his leadership/intangibles. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about Dean's ability to stay healthy at higher levels given his playstyle and size. I just don't see Dean's ceiling as significantly higher than Jake's and I think Jake has a higher floor and is more likely to hit his ceiling.

Dean's D+2 regular season was barely behind Neighbours. It gets ugly when you add the playoffs. Dean crushed Neighbours in scoring regular season + playoffs in their own D+2 seasons. 96 in 63 for 1.524 vs 62 in 49 for 1.265,

Here are their totals for their entire junior careers:

Neighbours
Regular season - 176 points in 171 games, for 1.029 ppg
Playoffs - 29 points in 39 games for .829 ppg

Dean
Regular Season - 188 points in 177 games for 1.062 ppg
Playoffs - 35 points in 24 games for 1.458 ppg

While close, Dean has better regular season point production than Neighbours overall, and and better total ppg with playoffs in every season but one. Neighbours did have a better D+1 season, but he only played 19 games so small sample size.

Dean's playoff production kills Neighbours. It is absolutely a good thing for a prospect to have a track record of raising his game when it matters most.

So I find it hard to find any genuine argument that Neighbours per game scoring in junior was better than Dean's. Then add the Center+defensive game argument, and its not even close.

 

[Robb_K]

I have to go with Dean over Neighbours. Dean has looked to me to have the offensive skills to have a better offensive upside, in the long run, and he's already a better 2-way player. I'm sure that Neighbours, with his good work ethic, will improve his defensive skills and game, but, I still think Dean will be a better 2-way player, and a higher scorer, and so, be more valuable to his team.

 

[Reality Czech]

Interesting to see the disparity in support between Stenberg and Lindstein. It's somewhat odd that Lindstein may go 3 spots later than Stenberg when they were taken in the same draft a month ago only four spots apart in the 20s.

I'd go with Dean here but I would have picked him last round as well. I think he has more upside than Neighbours. Dean is also a center. The main thing people mention with Neighbours is his NHL readiness. Neighbours got ~40 games in his D+3 year, which is a number I think Dean could also reach this year depending on how soon an opportunity arises from injuries. I also value upside more than NHL readiness. I think Dean is getting referred to as a safe prospect a bit too much. It's true that he has a pretty high floor thanks to his IQ and defensive capabilities, but I think people are understating his upside. He's not on the same level of Snuggerud, Dvorsky, or Bolduc, but I do believe his ceiling is in a similar level as Stenberg and Lindstein. He performed much better after the Barbashev trade and had an incredible playoffs (significantly better than Bolduc, even). I would have had Dean at fourth behind Snuggerud, Dvorsky, and Bolduc. I still think Hofer went way too high.

Someone in another thread said that if Dean was the one drafted by the Blues and Neighbours was the one acquired in a trade recently, that Dean would get much more support, which I think is likely true. People are just less familiar with him, especially with Neighbour's cup of coffee in the NHL.

Seems like people are voting for guys they are less familiar with, so I totally disagree with your last statement. I guess hope and optimism are winning over known quantities. Not sure why people are discounting Neighbours so much but I guess shiny new toys are more appealing than the one you got two Christmases ago.

Dean will turn 21 this year and he likely won't have a shot at a full time NHL job till next year at the earliest while Neighbours showed he's an NHLer at roughly the same age. I don't know how this poll is even close but then again I never trust polls.

 

[542365]

Still Jake, our third best prospect. Dean played in the easiest league in the CHL and put up fine, but unspectacular numbers(10th best points per game in the Q). I think he's a good return for Barbie as he's likely a bottom six, defensive minded center, but his offensive ceiling is being overrated because of a small sample size.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I have Bolduc, Dean, Hofer, Lindstein, Neighbours, and Stenberg all on the same tier, so honestly, I can see arguments for any of them in basically any order.

I add Buchinger in that list

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I disagree. I think whatever negatives that has caused is more than offset by the people saying he is NHL ready because he has already played in the NHL. He's been gifted opportunities he doesn't deserve every step of his Blues career, and people think that means he deserves them.




Dean's D+2 regular season was barely behind Neighbours. It gets ugly when you add the playoffs. Dean crushed Neighbours in scoring regular season + playoffs in their own D+2 seasons. 96 in 63 for 1.524 vs 62 in 49 for 1.265,

Here are their totals for their entire junior careers:

Neighbours
Regular season - 176 points in 171 games, for 1.029 ppg
Playoffs - 29 points in 39 games for .829 ppg

Dean
Regular Season - 188 points in 177 games for 1.062 ppg
Playoffs - 35 points in 24 games for 1.458 ppg

While close, Dean has better regular season point production than Neighbours overall, and and better total ppg with playoffs in every season but one. Neighbours did have a better D+1 season, but he only played 19 games so small sample size.

Dean's playoff production kills Neighbours. It is absolutely a good thing for a prospect to have a track record of raising his game when it matters most.

So I find it hard to find any genuine argument that Neighbours per game scoring in junior was better than Dean's. Then add the Center+defensive game argument, and its not even close.

What were Dean’s points per game against Quebec? Watching some of that series and then prospect camp I didn’t walk away seeing any potential in being a top six. He’s a good player, but I’m not so sure it will translate at a higher speed. I’m really curious what he does this year at the AHL level. It is kind of like Lindstein. My big concern with him is his I have a live grenade approach with the puck when he gets overpressured. It’s not natural for him and his reactions need to improve as a defense first guy, which I would like to see. I think he will be a very good player and I am a huge fan; but I want to see how he does this year and how he progresses before I move him up on my list anyway. Both are very good players, but so our neighbors and Buchinger.

 

[Stealth JD]

Dean, Buchinger, Lidstein, Neighbours, Alexandrov, Vorobyov

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Lidstein then Buchinger. I think a Top 4 projected Defenseman (I think both could be a #3) is more valuable than a 3rd line C or Wing.

 

[DatDude44]

Easily Lindstein. Neighbours and Dean could top out as middle-six forwards who can anchor lines. Buchinger has offensive potential in spades. Alexandrov and Robertsson could continue to increase our stable of solid middle six/bottom-six forwards. However, Lindstein is my choice because he is, in my opinion, is our number one defense prospect, and - also my opinion - has the potential to be the top two left-handed shutdown defenseman we've all been looking for, since Bouwmeester was forced to retire.

He was regarded as the best defenseman in the 2023 Draft before Reinbacher, Simishev, Willander, and Sandin-Pellikka emerged. Hell, he was partially the reason why Willander and ASP emerged; he did the dirty work while they did the offense. He's as smooth a skater as you'll see from a defenseman, has a great stick, and his hockey IQ is brilliant. The only issue is his offense, but he has potential there. He's smart offensively, and he's actually got a hell of a shot.

He'll need to bulk up for the rigors of the NHL, but honestly, I'm almost more excited about Lindstein than I am about Stenberg. I'm thinking smaller Bouw as a comparison, if he hits his full potential. That's worth a late first any day, and that's a much better prospect than two middle-six forwards.

Agreed, hjalmarsson type.

I think I like deans upside more than just a 3rd line guy so for me:
Dean
Lindstein
Neighbours
Buchinger
Alexandrov
Burns
Pekarcik


But those top 3 are super close

 

[STL fan in MN]

What were Dean’s points per game against Quebec? Watching some of that series and then prospect camp I didn’t walk away seeing any potential in being a top six. He’s a good player, but I’m not so sure it will translate at a higher speed. I’m really curious what he does this year at the AHL level. It is kind of like Lindstein. My big concern with him is his I have a live grenade approach with the puck when he gets overpressured. It’s not natural for him and his reactions need to improve as a defense first guy, which I would like to see. I think he will be a very good player and I am a huge fan; but I want to see how he does this year and how he progresses before I move him up on my list anyway. Both are very good players, but so our neighbors and Buchinger.

Dean got injured in Game 1 of the Quebec series. Was basically playing with 1 arm the rest of the way. So yeah, his effectiveness went way down in that series.

His equipment then didn’t arrive until the last day of Prospect Camp so of course he didn’t shine that week.

So while you’re correct in that he didn’t shine in those 2 scenarios, there’s 2 pretty darn good reasons why that you’re leaving out.

I’ve got no problem with people preferring others over Dean as there’s valid reasons to do so. But there’s also valid reasons for preferring Dean.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I just don't like when people knock down others for weird reasons to prop others up. Implying that Neighbours didn't earn his spot is something I don't agree with. He earned a spot in camp, compare that to someone like Bolduc. He then earned a call up after really good production in the minors and his play was noticably better when he came back up.

Not saying, you can't critique them when deciding between 2 either. Perfectly fine with saying his upside is lower than others and that's why you prefer someone else, just how someone would prefer him over someone else because of NHL readiness.