Who has the best peak in Dallas Stars' history?

[hairylikebear]

Demitra is nowhere near Modano stop being a fool.

One player has a statue, a Stanley Cup and nearly 1400 NHL points.

The other couldn't get to 800.

What an insult to Stars fans that watched Modano.

We're talking about peak and I already mentioned the difference in the playoffs. Statue and career points are both irrelevant here.

 

[blundluntman]

Turco was good, and had brilliant numbers in 02-03, but do Dallas fans even think his peak was above Belfour’s? Belfour led the league in SV% with the team in 99-00 (and was 2nd to Hasek over his first 3 years with the team), and his back to back finals runs were awesome.

Belfour would be my pick as well honestly. One of the greatest money goalies in modern history in my book.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm going off the board here for Jason Robertson. He holds the single-season team record for production by 16 points.

If you're going by any more than a season or two, that's prime, not peak.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

Clear answer here, people. Do the right thing.

 

[Machinehead]

Clear answer here, people. Do the right thing.

I laughed because of the post and avatar/name combo.

 

[bobbyking]

if i remember correctly seguin had about 12 hatricks in a 120 games span in a very low scoring era

 

[Regal]

Clear answer here, people. Do the right thing.

For a billion dollars I will

 

[SillyRabbit]

I'm going off the board here for Jason Robertson. He holds the single-season team record for production by 16 points.

If you're going by any more than a season or two, that's prime, not peak.

By that logic, Peter Stastny has a higher peak than Sakic, Forsberg and MacKinnon.

 

[Machinehead]

By that logic, Peter Stastny has a higher peak than Sakic, Forsberg and MacKinnon.

He probably does. That's what a peak is.

 

[Regal]

He probably does. That's what a peak is.

I think the poster’s point is that scoring the most doesn’t automatically make it the best season, just like Statsny’s best year was higher scoring than the others but it wasn’t a better season. Though Robertson’s year probably does have an argument for most productive Dallas season relative to the league, even over Benn’s Art Ross. Still, I personally think there needs to be some sustainability to the peak season in terms of performance and not just be a statistical outlier. Was Robertson actually that good or did he just happen to produce at an unsustainable rate due to variance/line chemistry? I’m not sure tbh.

 

[SillyRabbit]

He probably does. That's what a peak is.

No.

Stastny never finished top 3 in Hart Voting.

Sakic and Forsberg have Harts.

Forsberg has an Art Ross.

MacKinnon will likely win both himself this season.

Putting up a bunch of points in a higher-scoring era doesn't make you a better player. It's about how you compare to your peers at the time you played.

 

[Machinehead]

No.

Stastny never finished top 3 in Hart Voting.

Sakic and Forsberg have Harts.

Forsberg has an Art Ross.

MacKinnon will likely win both himself this season.

Putting up a bunch of points in a higher-scoring era doesn't make you a better player. It's about how you compare to your peers at the time you played.

I don't think characterization that Robertson just put up a bunch of points is fair. It's very much in the discussion for the best season in Stars history.

He had 31 more points than his next most productive teammate and his 4th is a higher Hart finish than any finish Modano had.

I think the poster’s point is that scoring the most doesn’t automatically make it the best season, just like Statsny’s best year was higher scoring than the others but it wasn’t a better season. Though Robertson’s year probably does have an argument for most productive Dallas season relative to the league, even over Benn’s Art Ross. Still, I personally think there needs to be some sustainability to the peak season in terms of performance and not just be a statistical outlier. Was Robertson actually that good or did he just happen to produce at an unsustainable rate due to variance/line chemistry? I’m not sure tbh.

Yeah, I think it's fair to argue that you'd like to see some sustainability behind a peak.

 

[HolyHagelin]

Remember that time a guy tried to argue that Pavol Demitra is a comp to Mike Modano?

 

[Albatros]

Remember that time a guy tried to argue that Pavol Demitra is a comp to Mike Modano?

Both peaked with exactly the same 93 points and strong two-way play.

 

[Felidae]

I'm going off the board here for Jason Robertson. He holds the single-season team record for production by 16 points.

If you're going by any more than a season or two, that's prime, not peak.

As much as I like Robertson, i don't think there's much argument for Robertson over peak Benn.

As much as we rag on Benn's weak competition, an Art Ross is still an Art Ross. Not counting massive games played differential, Has there ever been a 6th place point finish more impressive than an Art Ross winner from a purely offensive standpoint? Im willing to bet it's a very small number if so and I doubt Robertson is on that list. Benn still has a larger production gap over his comp than Robertson did last year.

And one more thing that tends to be overlooked is that Benn still finished 2nd in points, 3rd in goals and was a hart finalist the next year against slightly better competition. His peak was sustained where there isn't much question as to whether he's a 1 hit wonder Unlike Robertson, who only really has last season in terms of elite production.

And that's just talking offense.. Benn brought a physical element to the game Robertson lacks.

 

[HFpapi]

I voted Modano mainly because it's instinctual to do so. He had the best career and especially by far the best career in a Stars uniform.

That said, if we are talking single-season peak, I'm not sure anything Modano did is better than Benn's Art Ross or Robertsons 109 points last year.

 

[Felidae]

I voted Modano mainly because it's instinctual to do so. He had the best career and especially by far the best career in a Stars uniform.

That said, if we are talking single-season peak, I'm not sure anything Modano did is better than Benn's Art Ross or Robertsons 109 points last year.

I mean, the poll is about peak.. Some people sustain their peak for longer, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were better at their best than the player with a shorter peak.

I'm hoping most people actually read the poll and didn't vote Modano just cause. I don't think he should have such a big lead, if at all.

 

[HFpapi]

I mean, the poll is about peak.. Some people sustain their peak for longer, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were better at their best than the player with a shorter peak.

I'm hoping most people actually read the poll and didn't vote Modano just cause. I don't think he should have such a big lead, if at all.

well peak is also kind of subjective.

Not sure anything Modano did beats Benn's two season "peak" of 1st and 2nd place scoring finishes.

On the flip side, Modano had an 11 year stretch where he scored 80+ points 8 times. If you want to call that entire stretch a "peak" since it's so consistent, that's better than Benn's entire career overall so I can't fault people for voting Modano.

 

[wetcoast]

So was peak Demitra, but he's missing the playoff accolades which is a huge part of Modano's resume.

Except Modano was a complete 2 way center at his peak.

This guy sums it up even if we are talking only about peak.

Demitra is nowhere near Modano stop being a fool.

One player has a statue, a Stanley Cup and nearly 1400 NHL points.

The other couldn't get to 800.

What an insult to Stars fans that watched Modano.

 

[Felidae]

well peak is also kind of subjective.

Not sure anything Modano did beats Benn's two season "peak" of 1st and 2nd place scoring finishes.

On the flip side, Modano had an 11 year stretch where he scored 80+ points 8 times. If you want to call that entire stretch a "peak" since it's so consistent, that's better than Benn's entire career overall so I can't fault people for voting Modano.

I think at that point that's most people would consider a player's prime, not peak.

But even in your example of Modano's 8 year stretch. Let's say for the sake of argument that none of those individual seasons were better than Benn's Art Ross and runner up season. That's how you compare peak

Generally, length of peak doesn't really matter when comparing who had the better one. It's just who reached the higher level of play at their absolute best.


Now, if the question was just straight up "better player overall" that's when you start to consider how long a player was elite for. In other words, a player's prime.

Hope I'm making sense..

 

[MuckOG]

Dino Ciccarelli

 

[HolyHagelin]

Both peaked with exactly the same 93 points and strong two-way play.

You realize Modano had a 50 goal season right? Demitra never cracked 40.

Also Modano did that 93 back to back, so I guess by this inane criteria his peak was twice as good as Demitra’s because he peaked for 2 straight years instead of 1.

 

[Felidae]

Dino Ciccarelli

Damn, that's a good one

I mean, I dont think he's the answer and I doubt he'll get votes. But he does deserve to be in the poll.

1986-87 he was 5th in goals, and 6th in points, PPG and GPG . That's actually an elite season, didn't know he had a top 10 point finish

 

[HolyHagelin]

I think at that point that's most people would consider a player's prime, not peak.

But even in your example of Modano's 8 year stretch. Let's say for the sake of argument that none of those individual seasons were better than Benn's Art Ross and runner up season. That's how you compare peak

Generally, length of peak doesn't really matter when comparing who had the better one. It's just who reached the higher level of play at their absolute best.


Now, if the question was just straight up "better player overall" that's when you start to consider how long a player was elite for. In other words, a player's prime.

Hope I'm making sense..

I understand what you are getting at, and for a player like Modano an 8 year prime makes sense. I have a hard time calling one season a “peak,” I tend to think of a guy’s peak as his best 3 (or so) season run. One great year is just an outlier.

To illustrate, 2 seasons ago Chris Kreider, previous career high 28G, scored 52. Looked like an outlier, but now he is in the midst of his 3rd straight 30G campaign. We are in (presumably? His skill set looks good to age well) the last year of Kreider’s peak. The 52 goal season is still an outlier; he isn’t really a “true” 50 goal talent.

 

[Albatros]

You realize Modano had a 50 goal season right? Demitra never cracked 40.

Also Modano did that 93 back to back, so I guess by this inane criteria his peak was twice as good as Demitra’s because he peaked for 2 straight years instead of 1.

...in 1993/94, when Ray Sheppard and Adam Graves scored 52 each. In Demitra's peak goal scoring season no one in the league had more than 47. Besides 93 points being significantly more in the DPE than in the early 90s Modano scored the first of his two seasons in Minnesota.