Who has the best peak in Dallas Stars' history?

[Felidae]

I think at that point that's most people would consider a player's prime, not peak.

I understand what you are getting at, and for a player like Modano an 8 year prime makes sense. I have a hard time calling one season a “peak,” I tend to think of a guy’s peak as his best 3 (or so) season run. One great year is just an outlier.

Fair enough. Personally, at least 2 years is enough for me. I agree just one year is more often than not an outlier affected by outside factors like linemates, high SH%, etc. But I don't think that applies to anyone in the poll though except maybe Robertson (too early yet)

 

[HolyHagelin]

Fair enough. Personally, at least 2 years is enough for me. I agree just one year is more often than not an outlier affected by outside factors like linemates, high SH%, etc. But I don't think that applies to anyone in the poll though except maybe Robertson (too early yet)

Not related to the thread - I think you and I got off on the wrong foot and I had a bad impression of you, now that I have been around longer I enjoy your posts, and realize that I was misinterpreting your tone back when. Mea Culpa.

 

[Satan]

I've posted about this before but for a 3 year span between 2013 to 2016, Jamie Benn and Tyler Seguin were two of the best players in the world (along with Crosby and Pat Kane).

 

[Hockey Outsider]

There's absolutely no comparison between Modano and Demitra in terms of defensive play.

The evidence (aside from watching them play):

• Demitra got very little ice time on the penalty kill until after the lockout (when he was no longer a top scorer); Modano was one of the top penalty killing forwards in the NHL (from 1998 to 2004, he was 18th overall - with most of the names ahead of him being nowhere close to him offensively)
• Demitra got votes for the Selke trophy once in his career (he had high plus/minus - this was the year his teammate Pronger won the Hart). Modano got at least one vote for the Selke trophy 10 times, with four years ranking 6th or higher
• Plus/minus has limited value but it's worth noting that Modano led his team in 1997, 1998, 1999 (tied), and he was 2nd in 1995, 2001, 2002, and 2007. Demitra had two years where he was 1st on his team (2001 and 2006) and one year as 2nd (2000). Plus/minus has limited value, but this is a really one-sided comparison. (Especially since, in one of the years Demitra led his team, he was clearly no longer in his prime offensively).

If you compare Demitra and Modano strictly in terms of regular season offense, in terms of best 1-2 seasons, it's close. But Modano was a vastly better two-way player, and a much stronger playoff performer. Modano pretty clearly had the better peak unless literally all we're doing is comparing the number of points they scored.

 

[HolyHagelin]

There's absolutely no comparison between Modano and Demitra in terms of defensive play.

The evidence (aside from watching them play):

• Demitra got very little ice time on the penalty kill until after the lockout (when he was no longer a top scorer); Modano was one of the top penalty killing forwards in the NHL (from 1998 to 2004, he was 18th overall - with most of the names ahead of him being nowhere close to him offensively)
• Demitra got votes for the Selke trophy once in his career (he had high plus/minus - this was the year his teammate Pronger won the Hart). Modano got at least one vote for the Selke trophy 10 times, with four years ranking 6th or higher
• Plus/minus has limited value but it's worth noting that Modano led his team in 1997, 1998, 1999 (tied), and he was 2nd in 1995, 2001, 2002, and 2007. Demitra had two years where he was 1st on his team (2001 and 2006) and one year as 2nd (2000). Plus/minus has limited value, but this is a really one-sided comparison. (Especially since, in one of the years Demitra led his team, he was clearly no longer in his prime offensively).

If you compare Demitra and Modano strictly in terms of regular season offense, in terms of best 1-2 seasons, it's close. But Modano was a vastly better two-way player, and a much stronger playoff performer. Modano pretty clearly had the better peak unless literally all we're doing is comparing the number of points they scored.

And, of course, offensively we have one guy who topped out at 50 goals and one who topped at 37.

Thank you for typing all that out, the argument was costing me valuable brain cells and I am glad someone else came in with the finishing move.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Gotta be Benn. Won the Art ross and finished 2nd the next season. Few players can lay claim to that type of peak

 

[Regal]

Personally I see peak more in terms of who I would take first on my team at their best for a playoff run based on all the info we have surrounding their best. So we could argue that Benn had a better best regular season than Modano I suppose, but I’m not sure it’s by that much when you consider the Stars were pretty run and gun during the Ruff years and the Hitchcock Stars were the reverse. Modano was able to go up against the Yzerman’s and Sakic’s off the world and hold his own or even best them. I would take him at his best over Benn and the rest of the forward options.

For me it comes down to Modano, Zubov and Belfour, who I think are the three best at each position and all similarly valuable at them. It’s hard to pick one

 

[Duffy13]

Bobby Smith

 

[acor]

This thread is rosy retrospection as its finest- there's really no reason Modano should run away with this poll... IMO there are 5, maybe more candidates, and yeah Modano is among them, but he's not a clear cut answer- many elite players, but nobody super-elite, and nobody obviously more elite than the rest (Belfour might be closest to super-elite, but was his peak even at Dallas?).

 

[glovesave_35]

This Stars fan has a very hard time choosing between Modano, Zubov, and Belfour. When they won the Cup in '99, all three were absolute monsters.

Belfour may be the right answer due to how dominant he was at the goalie position at that time.

But, Zubov controlled games and impacted every aspect of the game, and played huge minutes un all situations.

Modano was a two-way monster up front. Elite defensively and big clutch moments offensively.

 

[glovesave_35]

Personally I see peak more in terms of who I would take first on my team at their best for a playoff run based on all the info we have surrounding their best. So we could argue that Benn had a better best regular season than Modano I suppose, but I’m not sure it’s by that much when you consider the Stars were pretty run and gun during the Ruff years and the Hitchcock Stars were the reverse. Modano was able to go up against the Yzerman’s and Sakic’s off the world and hold his own or even best them. I would take him at his best over Benn and the rest of the forward options.

For me it comes down to Modano, Zubov and Belfour, who I think are the three best at each position and all similarly valuable at them. It’s hard to pick one

My feelings exactly. Well put.

 

[Felidae]

This thread is rosy retrospection as its finest- there's really no reason Modano should run away with this poll... IMO there are 5, maybe more candidates, and yeah Modano is among them, but he's not a clear cut answer- many elite players, but nobody super-elite, and nobody obviously more elite than the rest (Belfour might be closest to super-elite, but was his peak even at Dallas?).

Yeah I get the impression people just saw the name Modano and went with him.

If this was prime, the gap by which he's winning the poll would be more understandable.

 

[Felidae]

Personally I see peak more in terms of who I would take first on my team at their best for a playoff run based on all the info we have surrounding their best. So we could argue that Benn had a better best regular season than Modano I suppose, but I’m not sure it’s by that much when you consider the Stars were pretty run and gun during the Ruff years and the Hitchcock Stars were the reverse. Modano was able to go up against the Yzerman’s and Sakic’s off the world and hold his own or even best them. I would take him at his best over Benn and the rest of the forward options.

For me it comes down to Modano, Zubov and Belfour, who I think are the three best at each position and all similarly valuable at them. It’s hard to pick one

That's reasonable.

Though in fairness to Benn. We rarely got to see peak Benn perform in the postseason. Basically just his 2015-16 run when he led the team in scoring with 15 points in 13 games. Benn wasn't the same player by the time he played in his next playoffs.

Also, I do think the idea of Modano's numbers being held back is a tad overstated. In Modano's best seasons, the number of goals the Stars scored varied a fair bit from season to season. From 1998 to 2002, the team finished 8th, 21st, 10th, 15th and 6th in goals for. But Modano's production stayed pretty consistent in that timeframe.

And if you wanna play that card, you have to then consider Modano's defensive prowess being propped up more than it normally would.

 

[ijuka]

Modano had the best career, true, but I'm not sure why he's winning the poll about the best peak. His peak wasn't even better than Benn's.

 

[glovesave_35]

That's reasonable.

Though in fairness to Benn. We rarely got to see peak Benn perform in the postseason. Basically just his 2015-16 run when he led the team in scoring with 15 points in 13 games. Benn wasn't the same player by the time he played in his next playoffs.

Also, I do think the idea of Modano's numbers being held back is a tad overstated. In Modano's best seasons, the number of goals the Stars scored varied a fair bit from season to season. From 1998 to 2002, the team finished 8th, 21st, 10th, 15th and 6th in goals for. But Modano's production stayed pretty consistent in that timeframe.

And if you wanna play that card, you have to then consider Modano's defensive prowess being propped up more than it normally would.

Having Modano as the lynch-pin of the team's defensive game up front is a big part of how Hitchcock's system was able to work. I don't think this is a Brodeur in New Jersey situation where the goalie sees an obvious benefit from the team structure. Bergeron wouldn't have been as effective if he was a stand-alone defensive presence.

Modano's overall game and impact had similarities to a guy like Zetterberg. It's hard to overstate how good of a two-way player he was.

I don't know how much production Modano lost playing under Hitch, but I feel like he would have had massively increased numbers in a league with scoring like the current NHL.

 

[Albatros]

Having Modano as the lynch-pin of the team's defensive game up front is a big part of how Hitchcock's system was able to work. I don't think this is a Brodeur in New Jersey situation where the goalie sees an obvious benefit from the team structure. Bergeron wouldn't have been as effective if he was a stand-alone defensive presence.

Modano's overall game and impact had similarities to a guy like Zetterberg. It's hard to overstate how good of a two-way player he was.

I don't know how much production Modano lost playing under Hitch, but I feel like he would have had massively increased numbers in a league with scoring like the current NHL.

He was playing with the three-time Selke winner Lehtinen, not as a stand-alone defensive presence either. If anything, Modano was rarely the best defensive player in his own line. Good two-way ability, yes.

 

[LT]

He was playing with the three-time Selke winner Lehtinen, not as a stand-alone defensive presence either. If anything, Modano was rarely the best defensive player in his own line. Good two-way ability, yes.

That speaks to how good Lehtinen was too, it doesn't diminish any of Modano's defensive accomplishments.

There's a reason the team was so successful while both were on the roster.

 

[M88K]

It's between Robertson and Modano and I'm taking Mo at this point.
What Robertson did last year hasn't ever been done before for the franchise, when you factor in how high league scoring is, it makes it less remarkable but still impressive.
I don't put any stock in awards, they've proven time and time again to be a joke, even though the Art Ross is as cut and dry as an award can get, Seguin was in the driver seat until his injury. I don't think i would even say Benn was the best player on the team in 14-15.
Belfour, and Zubov get an HM

 

[MuckOG]

Too little discussion about the ENTIRE history of the Stars franchise. Reminder that the franchise didn't begin once they moved to Dallas.

 

[gritdash60]

Who the f*** is "Lethinen"? Really tells me everything about the dude who opens the voting when he can't even spell the name of a three time Selke winner as a winger. Should've put him in the "Other" category since you really are biased towards American and Canadian players.

Who the f*** is "Lethinen"? Really tells me everything about the dude who opens the voting when he can't even spell the name of a three time Selke winner as a winger. Should've put him in the "Other" category since you really are biased towards American and Canadian players.

FFS his number is in the rafters and you call your self a fan? what a clown.

 

[Felidae]

Who the f*** is "Lethinen"? Really tells me everything about the dude who opens the voting when he can't even spell the name of a three time Selke winner as a winger. Should've put him in the "Other" category since you really are biased towards American and Canadian players.


FFS his number is in the rafters and you call your self a fan? what a clown.

The only clown I see here is you. Accusing me of bias towards Canadian and American players and questioning my fan status.. over getting a name wrong? Those things are completely unrelated.

But I guess you've never misspelled a word in your life. Thanks for the correction anyways.

 

[Albatros]

Too little discussion about the ENTIRE history of the Stars franchise. Reminder that the franchise didn't begin once they moved to Dallas.

Well, no one associates Dino Ciccarelli with the Dallas Stars. He's in the HHoF and spent the better half of his career with the franchise, but he won't see his number retired in Dallas.

 

[MuckOG]

Well, no one associates Dino Ciccarelli with the Dallas Stars. He's in the HHoF and spent the better half of his career with the franchise, but he won't see his number retired in Dallas.

For what he meant to the franchise before they moved to Dallas, his number should be retired.

Ideally, when the Stars moved to Dallas, they should've left the franchise name/history in Minnesota and instead of the Wild, we would have the Minnesota North Stars. But life isn't fair....and Norm Green is still a puke.