Which team has worst salary cap situation?

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Vancouver is simply in a class of their own.

Next season, they have $33,558,205 in cap dollars allotted to the following players: Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Tanner Pearson, Sven Baertschi, Antoine Roussel, Jay Beagle, Tyler Myers, Ryan Spooner (buyout), and Roberto Luongo (recapture penalty). Looking beyond just the upcoming season, Vancouver still owes just over $100 MILLION in cap dollars to those players.

According to the goals above replacement models provided by both Corsica Hockey and Evolving Hockey, the performance of the 7 skaters who will actually play for Vancouver next year was below replacement level. (Not every player was below replacement level, but the combination of their GAR was negative according to both models.) In other words, both models estimate that you could replace all 7 of those players with league minimum UFA signings and waiver wire players, and your team would win more games.

To make this very simple: Vancouver owes over $100 MILLION (in cap dollars) to a collection of players who are below replacement level or will not play.

Edmonton has $25,849,999 in cap dollars this season and $61,000,000 long term allotted to a group of players who are about as far below replacement level as Vancouver's guys (Lucic, Gagner, Chiasson, Larsson, Russell, Manning, and the buyouts of Pouliot, Gryba, and Sekera). That is really f***ing bad, but it's not nearly as bad as Vancouver.

 

[lawrence]

Vancouver is simply in a class of their own.

Next season, they have $33,558,205 in cap dollars allotted to the following players: Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Tanner Pearson, Sven Baertschi, Antoine Roussel, Jay Beagle, Tyler Myers, Ryan Spooner (buyout), and Roberto Luongo (recapture penalty). Looking beyond just the upcoming season, Vancouver still owes just over $100 MILLION in cap dollars to those players.

According to the goals above replacement models provided by both Corsica Hockey and Evolving Hockey, the performance of the 7 skaters who will actually play for Vancouver next year was below replacement level. (Not every player was below replacement level, but the combination of their GAR was negative according to both models.) In other words, both models estimate that you could replace all 7 of those players with league minimum UFA signings and waiver wire players, and your team would win more games.

To make this very simple: Vancouver owes over $100 MILLION (in cap dollars) to a collection of players who are below replacement level or will not play.

Edmonton has $25,849,999 in cap dollars this season and $61,000,000 long term allotted to a group of players who are about as far below replacement level as Vancouver's guys (Lucic, Gagner, Chiasson, Larsson, Russell, Manning, and the buyouts of Pouliot, Gryba, and Sekera). That is really ****ing bad, but it's not nearly as bad as Vancouver.

the hell is this. we have 19 million dollar in cap space at the end of next season. Notable impactful ufa's on the Canucks is Tanev and Markstrom. Notable RFA's is Stetcher and Virtanen. Virtanen probably won't get much of a raise. We won't be losing sleep over losing Schaller, Biega Fatenburg. Bad my ass. the only thing we probably can't do next summer is any major UFA signings.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

the hell is this. we have 19 million dollar in cap space at the end of next season. Notable impactful ufa's on the Canucks is Tanev and Markstrom. Notable RFA's is Stetcher and Virtanen. Virtanen probably won't get much of a raise. We won't be losing sleep over losing Schaller, Biega Fatenburg. Bad my ass. the only thing we probably can't do next summer is any major UFA signings.

I don’t see how you think that is not a bad situation?

Look, we can agree that Vancouver - as they are currently constructed - are a pretty bad team, can’t we? They’ve finished bottom-10 in each of the past 3 seasons and they just finished 9 points out of a playoff spot in a terrible division. They need a lot of help.

As you said, you’ll have just enough space to keep those guys together. But there is no space to improve a team that desperately needs improvement.

There is so much more to do with cap space than just major UFA signings. For example, had Vancouver not had Brandon Sutter and Sven Baertschi on the books, they could’ve used that $7.75M in cap space to trade for a 1st round pick and Patrick Marleau’s contract for $6.25M and sign two replacement level players for $1.5M. Not only would they gain a 1st round pick, but they would improve their team simply by replacing Sutter and Baertschi with players who are willing to sign for league minimum.

Right now, you’re looking at a time in the NHL when cap space is being weaponized and used to acquire valuable assets for low prices or for nothing at all. The salary cap coming in much lower than projected threw a major wrench in many teams’ cap plans. Teams are throwing away useful players on the cheap or adding assets for the chance to throw away assets. If Vancouver was a good team, they would probably be throwing away assets to get rid of their bad players on bad contracts like Eriksson, Beagle, and

By using cap space for multiple seasons on insignificant players whose combined impacts are below replacement, you make your team worse and you prevent them from improving. Vancouver is spending $33,558,205 (over 41% of the cap!) on players who fit that category. A team like Toronto has been forced to move out valuable assets in order to get rid of bad contracts and keep their good players. Vancouver hasn’t had to do that yet because they don’t have as many good players. But they have more bad contracts than any other team, more cap dollars invested in those bad contracts, and they’re a bad team they can’t make moves to get better because of their bad contracts. Their cap situation is the worst in the NHL and it’s not even close.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Tampa cleared up that much cap, to not be on here?

 

[lawrence]

Look, we can agree that Vancouver - as they are currently constructed - are a pretty bad team, can’t we?

this part I can live with.

9 points out of a playoff spot in a terrible division.

you already killed some of your own credibility by saying this. this statement alone is good enough to show your lack of hockey knowledge. The Stanley cup favorite is in our division (Sharks), Last years stanley cup finalist is in our Div (Vegas) the 2nd best regular season team by a fair margin is in our div and the best player on the planet is in our Div.
You've decorated your post as well it can be to sound like you know your stuff, when in fact it's quite the opposite. we missed by 9 points, but injuries to our top 2 defence with a combined 54 games, (Tanev and Edler, with injury time with both of them out at the same time) Elias Pettersson our top centre and Boeser our top winger missing a combined 23 games. (in terms of major injuries to our impact players) as per hfboards.com every Canuck player is degraded multiple levels, Sven Baertchi who has been Horvats regular linemate since Horvat came into the NHL. feel free to dump on Baertchi,but if he didn't miss that many games, Horvat is looking at a 70 point season. the loss of Baertchi also slowed us down a little as it effected horvats production as he was stuck playing with scrubs. Sutter being hurt, as much you want to say he's a overpaid bumb, was an important piece for our team down the middle.

As you said, you’ll have just enough space to keep those guys together. But there is no space to improve a team that desperately needs improvement.

loose statement, we will live without one year of not signing a major UFA. Your making it sound like its a doomsday scenario when already Benning has added Miller, Myers, Pearson and Leivo.

used that $7.75M in cap space to trade for a 1st round pick and Patrick Marleau’s contract for $6.25M and sign two replacement level players for $1.5M. Not only would they gain a 1st round pick, but they would improve their team simply by replacing Sutter and Baertschi with players who are willing to sign for league minimum.

we cannot be blamed for this or "not doing this" transaction, as 29 other teams didn't think of either. so this statement is useless and can also be used against other cap tight teams.

By using cap space for multiple seasons on insignificant players whose combined impacts are below replacement, you make your team worse and you prevent them from improving. Vancouver is spending $33,558,205 (over 41% of the cap!) on players who fit that category. A team like Toronto has been forced to move out valuable assets in order to get rid of bad contracts and keep their good players. Vancouver hasn’t had to do that yet because they don’t have as many good players. But they have more bad contracts than any other team, more cap dollars invested in those bad contracts, and they’re a bad team they can’t make moves to get better because of their bad contracts. Their cap situation is the worst in the NHL and it’s not even close.

we are nowhere close to being the worse
now your just trying to dump on Vancouver's cap situation. Trying so desperately hard. The only thing they might not be able to do is a major UFA transaction, that it's a "might" you mentioned Toronto's situation making it sound like they are doing everything right when in fact it's a fricking gong show in Toronto, with their failed attempt at getting their players to take pay cuts, critical error of them Signing Tavares to that contract, while asking players to take pay cuts, and now Marner is about to ask for over 10 million, they got f***ed over so bad they had to pay another team a 1st rounder to get Marleau off their books, moving Kadri and not being able to keep a dman that was playing in their top pairing for the past 2 years.

nowhere close to being the worse in the NHL not even close. feel free to dump on some of their bad contracts, but far from the worse.

 

[Honest M]

Voted Toronto without digging deeper. Won't Marner eat a big chunk of the space, and then they have contracts to be signed this and next year with limited space and this while they also need to add to the defence?

Others might have worse teems and contracts but the cap space aren't really the biggest problem.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Voted Toronto without digging deeper. Won't Marner eat a big chunk of the space, and then they have contracts to be signed this and next year with limited space and this while they also need to add to the defence?

Others might have worse teems and contracts but the cap space aren't really the biggest problem.

They have Marner to sign....and the space to do it......and some big contracts expire after this season.

Ceci is gone next year. And one of Muzzin or Barrie will be gone next year.

So that is around 9 million coming off the books, with 2 D-Men needing to be signed next year. Everyone else important is locked up. And the cap will go up by another million or two.

I think they'll be able to manage.

 

[doomscroll]

The Rangers have attractive pieces (Kreider, namely) that can/will be moved to clear space, and the contracts of Lundqvist/Shattenkirk/Staal/Smith all end in two seasons when the next batch of RFAs (Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Hajek, Shestyorkin, etc.) need to be extended. The cap shouldn’t be an issue in Manhattan for at least a couple of years.

 

[Lovsan]

Edmonton. Toronto is in rough shape but at least they've got a competent management team that will be able to figure things out.

The Oilers have over 6M in dead cap space (buyouts + Manning), 6.5M tied up in arguably the worst goaltending tandem in the league, and the worst forward depth in the NHL. That roster is laughably terrible and they're still two seasons away from any cap relief from expiring contracts. At least they'll have 12.5M come off the books next summer when McDavid demands a trade.[/QUOTE ]mikko koskinen is a good goalie. nothing else to say.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

this part I can live with.



you already killed some of your own credibility by saying this. this statement alone is good enough to show your lack of hockey knowledge. The Stanley cup favorite is in our division (Sharks), Last years stanley cup finalist is in our Div (Vegas) the 2nd best regular season team by a fair margin is in our div and the best player on the planet is in our Div.
You've decorated your post as well it can be to sound like you know your stuff, when in fact it's quite the opposite. we missed by 9 points, but injuries to our top 2 defence with a combined 54 games, (Tanev and Edler, with injury time with both of them out at the same time) Elias Pettersson our top centre and Boeser our top winger missing a combined 23 games. (in terms of major injuries to our impact players) as per hfboards.com every Canuck player is degraded multiple levels, Sven Baertchi who has been Horvats regular linemate since Horvat came into the NHL. feel free to dump on Baertchi,but if he didn't miss that many games, Horvat is looking at a 70 point season. the loss of Baertchi also slowed us down a little as it effected horvats production as he was stuck playing with scrubs. Sutter being hurt, as much you want to say he's a overpaid bumb, was an important piece for our team down the middle.


loose statement, we will live without one year of not signing a major UFA. Your making it sound like its a doomsday scenario when already Benning has added Miller, Myers, Pearson and Leivo.




we cannot be blamed for this or "not doing this" transaction, as 29 other teams didn't think of either. so this statement is useless and can also be used against other cap tight teams.



we are nowhere close to being the worse
now your just trying to dump on Vancouver's cap situation. Trying so desperately hard. The only thing they might not be able to do is a major UFA transaction, that it's a "might" you mentioned Toronto's situation making it sound like they are doing everything right when in fact it's a fricking gong show in Toronto, with their failed attempt at getting their players to take pay cuts, critical error of them Signing Tavares to that contract, while asking players to take pay cuts, and now Marner is about to ask for over 10 million, they got ****ed over so bad they had to pay another team a 1st rounder to get Marleau off their books, moving Kadri and not being able to keep a dman that was playing in their top pairing for the past 2 years.

nowhere close to being the worse in the NHL not even close. feel free to dump on some of their bad contracts, but far from the worse.

Sorry, the Pacific Division is terrible. They have a few good teams, but the sum of all of them is bad; they had a combined goal differential of -79 and averaged 37 ROW and 87 points. Edmonton has McDavid but that hardly matters when their team as a whole is terrible and finishes the season with 79 points and a -42 goal differential.

The injuries that Vancouver dealt with are not all that much more than most teams face and they only impacted players who have a track record of being injured. For example, over the past 6 seasons, Edler has missed 18 games per season and Tanev has missed 23 games per season. Those players combine for 41 missed games on average; it's not some miracle of misfortune that they missed 54 this season.

Beyond that, you already agreed with me that the Canucks are a bad team, so why are you now trying to defend their performance this season? They're a bad team, they had a bad season, let's just agree to that and move on.

There are plenty of options for using cap space to improve a team that do not include signing a major UFA. I also don't consider it a "doomsday scenario" that Vancouver can't add a major UFA. That is a straw man argument on your behalf. Obviously, no hockey decision made by a GM can ever equate to a doomsday scenario. But what we are looking at here is a reality - not a scenario - in which Vancouver has 4 straight bottom-10 finishes and very little cap space to improve their team because they have over $33M tied up in below replacement level players for multiple seasons.

I am not blaming Vancouver in particular for not beating Carolina's offer for the Marleau dump, but merely providing an example of what they could have done. The Marleau trade shows that by using nothing but cap space, you can acquire a very valuable asset that is not a major UFA or even a UFA at all. You are correct that like other teams who did not make the Marleau move, Vancouver is a cap team, but the reason they are a cap team is because they have over $33M spent on players whose combined values are below replacement level. The difference between Vancouver and other cap teams that didn't make that move, is that other cap teams are spending most of that money on useful players; Vancouver is spending more than 5 times Marleau's cap hit on below replacement level players. There will be more deals made this summer that do

I am not trying so desperately hard to dump on Vancouver. I actually like the Canucks and the city of Vancouver. I am trying to put into words how terrible their cap management is, because it blows my mind how terrible it is. The more that I look at the players that Vancouver currently has under contract, the more I believe that Jim Benning is the worst GM in the NHL today, and only Pierre Dorion is on his level. (I would say Peter Chiarelli is up there as well if he was still employed.) If I just wanted to dump on Vancouver, I would just post something like "lol $100M on below replacement level players lol" and move on.

The fact that you think I am saying Toronto is doing everything right is a sign that you haven't really been paying attention and that you think I have an agenda that I don't. I have been very, very critical of a lot of Toronto's moves. I think Kyle Dubas slightly overpaid Nylander, he f***ed up royally on the Matthews negotiations and paid him far more than he is worth, and the internal precedent set by those decisions will force him to overpay Marner by a significant margin as well. I think Lou Lamoriello made a terrible mistake when signed Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev to their contracts, and put Dubas in a bind that he almost handled very well until he signed Cody Ceci - a terrible defender - for the same price as Zaitsev.

However, the difference between Toronto and Vancouver - and the reason that Toronto shouldn't even be in this discussion - is because they have spent too much money on great players. They are currently trying to manage the salary cap and keep most of their good team together. Yes, they, unlike Vancouver, have lost a few good players, and traded a few good assets away in order to stay under the cap. But they have done so in order to keep their great players and most of their good team together. They're not spending over $33 million on players whose combined values are below replacement level. After the Marner contract, they will be spending about $4 million too much on three great players. That is nowhere near as bad as Vancouver spending $25 million too much on 7 replacement level players.

 

[Numba9]

Vancouver is simply in a class of their own.

Next season, they have $33,558,205 in cap dollars allotted to the following players: Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Tanner Pearson, Sven Baertschi, Antoine Roussel, Jay Beagle, Tyler Myers, Ryan Spooner (buyout), and Roberto Luongo (recapture penalty). Looking beyond just the upcoming season, Vancouver still owes just over $100 MILLION in cap dollars to those players.

According to the goals above replacement models provided by both Corsica Hockey and Evolving Hockey, the performance of the 7 skaters who will actually play for Vancouver next year was below replacement level. (Not every player was below replacement level, but the combination of their GAR was negative according to both models.) In other words, both models estimate that you could replace all 7 of those players with league minimum UFA signings and waiver wire players, and your team would win more games.

Curious why you included players above replacement level? Like players like Sven Baertschi and Antoine Roussel are good players, not sure why they are in the list. Myers hasn't even played for the Canucks, he's automatically junk and can be replaced by someone on waivers?

 

[HyPnOtiK]

How is Toronto winning the poll when they at least have good players taking up the cap

Edmonton has a boat load of crap and no cap space, it's them

Because you're about to have 3 players getting paid north of 11M?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Curious why you included players above replacement level? Like players like Sven Baertschi and Antoine Roussel are good players, not sure why they are in the list. Myers hasn't even played for the Canucks, he's automatically junk and can be replaced by someone on waivers?

Using both goals above replacement models, the aggregate output of those 7 players are below replacement level. Roussel is solid but not enough to out-weigh the negative of the other players, and he is not the kind of player you should spend $3M on.

I don’t think either GAR model is perfect, I really don’t like them all that much, but when you combine the value of 7 different players and two separate models say they are below replacement level, that is very damning. Beyond that, it passes the smell test; none of those players are very good. Even if you think Tyler Myers is slightly above replacement level (both GAR models say he is below), there is no denying that he sucks and isn’t the kind of player that you should spend that kind of money on. The same goes for every other player on that list including Sven Baertschi. The names honestly tell you more than the stats; the stats are just something I added because that are all-encompassing and objective.

There is no other team in the league spending close to $33M on replacement level those players and dead cap. Edmonton for example is spending around $20M on replacement level players and dead cap.

 

[Numba9]

Using both goals above replacement models, the aggregate output of those 7 players are below replacement level. Roussel is solid but not enough to out-weigh the negative of the other players, and he is not the kind of player you should spend $3M on.

I don’t think either GAR model is perfect, I really don’t like them all that much, but when you combine the value of 7 different players and two separate models say they are below replacement level, that is very damning. Beyond that, it passes the smell test; none of those players are very good. Even if you think Tyler Myers is slightly above replacement level (both GAR models say he is below), there is no denying that he sucks and isn’t the kind of player that you should spend that kind of money on. The same goes for every other player on that list including Sven Baertschi. The names honestly tell you more than the stats; the stats are just something I added because that are all-encompassing and objective.

There is no other team in the league spending close to $33M on replacement level those players and dead cap. Edmonton for example is spending around $20M on replacement level players and dead cap.

Now GAR model is flawed but your smell test is not? Honestly just seems like you wanted the $ amount as high as possible so you just tossed some additional players and recapture penalty in there. The Canucks are not in any sort of cap hell, they don't have to give up any good players.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Now GAR model is flawed but your smell test is not? Honestly just seems like you wanted the $ amount as high as possible so you just tossed some additional players and recapture penalty in there. The Canucks are not in any sort of cap hell, they don't have to give up any good players.

No, I just included players that aren't noteworthy. Antoine Roussel had a decent season in terms of GAR via both models but he's still not the kind of player that you spend that money on. The recapture penalty is not the fault of Benning but it's another example of the cap hell they're in. They don't have to give up any good players because they hardly have any good players. They need to add more and they can't because they don't have cap space. That's cap hell.

 

[leafsfan5]

Because you're about to have 3 players getting paid north of 11M?

Mitch won't get 11, but all of them are superstars no? I'd rather pay my stars than pay Lucic 6 mill, Russell 4 mill, Koskinen 4.5 mill etc. And then on top of that they have 4.13 million in buyouts due next year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

How is Toronto winning the poll when they at least have good players taking up the cap

Edmonton has a boat load of crap and no cap space, it's them

The McDavid and Draisatl contracts are amazing bargains when you compare to what Matthews, Tavares and (likely) soon Marner are making.

Toronto has most of their cap space taken up by good players, that's true, but other than Rielly they're not getting a great deal on any of them.

In this cap league, so much comes down to getting your best players on bargain contracts imo, that's why even though Edmonton sucks right now I still like their situation long-term.
Leafs are just going to continue to have a very hard time filling out their roster.

 

[lawrence]

No, I just included players that aren't noteworthy. Antoine Roussel had a decent season in terms of GAR via both models but he's still not the kind of player that you spend that money on. The recapture penalty is not the fault of Benning but it's another example of the cap hell they're in. They don't have to give up any good players because they hardly have any good players. They need to add more and they can't because they don't have cap space. That's cap hell.

All your responses are absolute bull shit.

The injuries that Vancouver dealt with are not all that much more than most teams face

The frick is this ! We had most mans lost due to injuries in the NHL. You take the top 2 dman off any team and they automatically not be as good.

Beyond that, you already agreed with me that the Canucks are a bad team, so why are you now trying to defend their performance this season?

Writing long paragraphs does not make it look like you are accurate and know your stuff. Trying that also doesn’t make it look like you know your stuff. I am not defending the Canucks previous seasons. I was always team tank. We did miss the playoffs by 9 points with the most injuries lost in the nhl. Teams go through it he’s, we went through more of it and this last season we had the 7th most cap space in the nhl. Of course I am too some extent defending the nucks!

Regardless of what you think of Sven Baertchi is his horvats regular. Without him horvats production dropped.

Losing tanev and edler heavily impacted our team.

Now back to the point of us “having by far the worse cap situation in the nhl.” Is absolute bull crap.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

All your responses are absolute bull ****.



The frick is this ! We had most mans lost due to injuries in the NHL. You take the top 2 dman off any team and they automatically not be as good.


Writing long paragraphs does not make it look like you are accurate and know your stuff. Trying that also doesn’t make it look like you know your stuff. I am not defending the Canucks previous seasons. I was always team tank. We did miss the playoffs by 9 points with the most injuries lost in the nhl. Teams go through it he’s, we went through more of it and this last season we had the 7th most cap space in the nhl. Of course I am too some extent defending the nucks!

Regardless of what you think of Sven Baertchi is his horvats regular. Without him horvats production dropped.

Losing tanev and edler heavily impacted our team.

Now back to the point of us “having by far the worse cap situation in the nhl.” Is absolute bull crap.

Congratulations, you’ve refuted absolutely none of my points, and you’ve posted false information. Vancouver did not have the most man games lost due to injury:

 

[lawrence]

They have Marner to sign....and the space to do it......and some big contracts expire after this season.

Ceci is gone next year. And one of Muzzin or Barrie will be gone next year.

So that is around 9 million coming off the books, with 2 D-Men needing to be signed next year. Everyone else important is locked up. And the cap will go up by another million or two.

I think they'll be able to manage.

We are talking of as today actually. (I didn’t vote yet btw) but right now Toronto doesn’t have the cap room to sign their leading scorer from last year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

We are talking of as today actually. (I didn’t vote yet btw) but right now Toronto doesn’t have the cap room to sign their leading scorer from last year.

Uh........Sure they do.

With LTIR relief and with whoever is really supposed to be a Marlie instead of a NHLer to start the year, they have about 11 million.

 

[Sensung]

Ottawa.

We have an owner who will go as far below the cap floor as possible in terms of actual $ spent and an incompetent GM incapable of spending wisely.

 

[justafan22]

Uh........Sure they do.

With LTIR relief and with whoever is really supposed to be a Marlie instead of a NHLer to start the year, they have about 11 million.

paying good players = bad cap situation for some reason

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Oilers and Vegas. Leafs are in good situation if they don't sign Marner.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Vancouver is simply in a class of their own.

Next season, they have $33,558,205 in cap dollars allotted to the following players: Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Tanner Pearson, Sven Baertschi, Antoine Roussel, Jay Beagle, Tyler Myers, Ryan Spooner (buyout), and Roberto Luongo (recapture penalty). Looking beyond just the upcoming season, Vancouver still owes just over $100 MILLION in cap dollars to those players.

According to the goals above replacement models provided by both Corsica Hockey and Evolving Hockey, the performance of the 7 skaters who will actually play for Vancouver next year was below replacement level. (Not every player was below replacement level, but the combination of their GAR was negative according to both models.) In other words, both models estimate that you could replace all 7 of those players with league minimum UFA signings and waiver wire players, and your team would win more games.

To make this very simple: Vancouver owes over $100 MILLION (in cap dollars) to a collection of players who are below replacement level or will not play.

Edmonton has $25,849,999 in cap dollars this season and $61,000,000 long term allotted to a group of players who are about as far below replacement level as Vancouver's guys (Lucic, Gagner, Chiasson, Larsson, Russell, Manning, and the buyouts of Pouliot, Gryba, and Sekera). That is really ****ing bad, but it's not nearly as bad as Vancouver.

People don’t grasp just how awful of a GM Benning truly is