Which is most important for the Canes, chasing a Cup short term or long term success?

[bleedgreen]

Long term is the easy choice for me. I’m not convinced 100% we lining ourselves up for it, as you need development and youngsters to keep coming and that’s one aspect about this regime that we haven’t seen yet. We’re using the picks and prospects for vets. Eventually you can run out of those chips when you need more the most.

 

[Roboturner913]

Winning a Cup right now and then following it up with mediocrity because you ****ed up the salary cap long-term is not desirable.

I'd rather have 10 years of sustained success at or around this level and presume that in one of those years the stars will all align.

 

[HisIceness]

I want the Cup to return in our possession again but I also don't want another 9 years of 9th-10th place finishes in the regular season.

 

[Joe McGrath]

If they don’t win the cup with players the caliber of Aho, Svech, and Slavin, good f***ing luck ever winning it. Go for it now please.

 

[SoupNazi]

whatever makes Dundon money. Because reality.

You mean ads on jerseys?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

But you did nit pick.

It was a fair nitpick. I left out a first, which is a substantial asset.

 

[NotOpie]

But you did nit pick.

It was a fair nitpick. I left out a first, which is a substantial asset.

Guilty as charged on both accounts. Point is I agree with Hank about focusing on long term success. As we all know, once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen.

 

[Socks]

I think I know a little something about going all in and then crashing and burning. It's amazing while it's happening - being at Games 3 and 4 against the Lightning truly were some of the best nights of my life - but it's a short-term high. Building for long-term success is the far better way of conducting your business.

 

[dogbazinho]

Long Term. Sometimes I think short can actually hurt you if you use it to validate behavior that is not successful. It can also ferment a sense of betrayal if used to "cash out" like some franchises have done.

 

[VibesAlive]

The 9-10 years of suckage is still fresh on my seat. Long-term success is the way to go.

 

[Svechhammer]

If they don’t win the cup with players the caliber of Aho, Svech, and Slavin, good f***ing luck ever winning it. Go for it now please.

We won it in 2006 with a lesser core, and immediately regressing to f***-all abilities to consistently win got us to a point where the QC vultures were circling our corpse 10 years later.

I don't want that to happen again. Keep us in contention. Keep the fans engaged. Give us hope annually. Even if it doesn't pay off in this current iteration, its the absolute best thing for this team in this region right now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Long term is the easy choice for me. I’m not convinced 100% we lining ourselves up for it, as you need development and youngsters to keep coming and that’s one aspect about this regime that we haven’t seen yet. We’re using the picks and prospects for vets. Eventually you can run out of those chips when you need more the most.

Yeah, I'm in the "long term" camp as well in how Hank phrased it. You should strive to get in the playoffs every year because once there, anything can happen.

How well the recent draft picks pan out will be the determining factor on how successful this regime is. While they have traded away prospects/young players (Roy, Fleury, Luostarinen, Kuokkanen, etc...) for veteran help, they have also stocked up on draft picks and used most of those picks. 12 picks in 2019. 8 picks in 2020 (and Bokk and Keane through trades), 8 picks in this coming draft.

They are likely able to replace guys like Martinook/Paquette with Geekie/Lorentz (Francis picks), but in the next couple of years as guys like Trochek, Nino, Staal, etc.. all have their contracts expire, they are going to need some of these draft picks not only pan out, but be impact players (Drury, Rees, Jarvis, Suzuki, etc...)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The interesting thing here to watch is goaltending. TB and MTL had phenomenal goaltending. Ned was good this year, but it's still a small sample size.

If the Canes don't get at least above average goaltending, going far in the playoffs will be difficult.

 

[MinJaBen]

Yeah, long term competitiveness is better then what we endured for the ten years prior to Dundon, Waddell, and Rod. But long term competitiveness with no ultimate success is barely any better. Just ask Sharks fans.

 

[Svechhammer]

The interesting thing here to watch is goaltending. TB and MTL had phenomenal goaltending. Ned was good this year, but it's still a small sample size.

If the Canes don't get at least above average goaltending, going far in the playoffs will be difficult.

I would say Ned plus our defense were phenomenal this year. Not many teams would hold TB to 2 goals against per game for a series and we did just that this year.

I think we are spending too much time worrying about our defense and not enough time worrying about our lack of consistent firepower. Yes, our strength is defense, but at what point are we too back heavy at the detriment of our offense?

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Voted long term, but if it was a cup followed by years of rebuild vs years of playoff contention with no cup I pick the former.

IMO long term is a better way to build a cup contender

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I would say Ned plus our defense were phenomenal this year. Not many teams would hold TB to 2 goals against per game for a series and we did just that this year.

I think we are spending too much time worrying about our defense and not enough time worrying about our lack of consistent firepower. Yes, our strength is defense, but at what point are we too back heavy at the detriment of our offense?

I don't think "defense" is what people are worrying about. If Dougie is gone and Bean is picked, it's how effective the Canes will be at generating offense consistently. Not just goal scoring, but moving the puck up the ice, good passes, respecting a point shot on the PP, etc...

I completely agree with you that the Canes need more firepower upfront, but the team can't take too big of a step back on the backend (offense and defense).

 

[MinJaBen]

I think we are spending too much time worrying about our defense and not enough time worrying about our lack of consistent firepower. Yes, our strength is defense, but at what point are we too back heavy at the detriment of our offense?

I don’t think anyone is arguing to keep Dougie or Bean for their defense. They are offensive contributors from the blue line.

 

[dogbazinho]

Yeah our PP is gonna suffer the most from this IMO. Poor PP.

 

[emptyNedder]

As we all know, once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen.

Sometimes we all know things that aren't fully supported by the facts. Outside of the Blues in 19, one of the top 3-4 teams going into the season won the Cup. Sure they quite often faced an upstart, but for the past 20 years it has been one of the "powerhouses" that has won the Stanley Cup. Only 3 times has the Cup champion had less than 100 points in the regular season (or that pace for the shortened seasons).

If the Canes don't get at least above average goaltending, going far in the playoffs will be difficult.

Vasi and Price were both groomed in their organizations. I will continue to make the point that part of the voodoo surrounding goalies, at least as it applies to winning the cup, seems to be related to feeling the organization is your family.

 

[A Star is Burns]

There's no reason to go "all in" on a year or a few years and I rarely see anybody suggest that. But you absolutely have to balance being aggressive when opportunities to increase your chances arise with stockpiling assets, drafting, and developing so you can stay in contention for as long as possible. I think even when talking about a window, that doesn't mean you can't compete or win after that window. It just means you expect the makeup of the team to be quite different then.

 

[sheriff bart]

Yeah, long term competitiveness is better then what we endured for the ten years prior to Dundon, Waddell, and Rod. But long term competitiveness with no ultimate success is barely any better. Just ask Sharks fans.

But is the Cup the only measure of success?

Looking at the Hamilton situation (from the outside) seems like Thea Canes don’t want to go to full term because of the end years being an anchor. Some seem to say “Who cares, worry about that then”. This is the all in now idea. I just don’t want the team to make moves that are going to be killers before they are 2/3 over.

More than anything, I want to be excited by Canes hockey and not worried about the draft lottery and a long off season

 

[MinJaBen]

But is the Cup the only measure of success?

Looking at the Hamilton situation (from the outside) seems like Thea Canes don’t want to go to full term because of the end years being an anchor. Some seem to say “Who cares, worry about that then”. This is the all in now idea. I just don’t want the team to make moves that are going to be killers before they are 2/3 over.

More than anything, I want to be excited by Canes hockey and not worried about the draft lottery and a long off season

The Cup is the only measure that counts to the team. The front office probably measures it in dollars more than cups.

Nobody wants to screw up deals. Dougie could be a good defenseman until he’s 40, or he could breakdown next year and be an albatross around our neck; who knows. Gardiner was a bargain signing on a short-ish contract that looked good on signing day, but became an anchor before the year was up. Then you have guys like Chara who have played well until 40. I suspect Dougie will be more like Suter: still performing well, even if not living up to his contract entirely. If we structure the contract right, then he could be moved or bought out in the later years without too much pain.

 

[Canes]

Ultimately winning a Cup is what matters to me to most so if I'm forced to pick an option, I pick option one. Obviously option two is pretty good too but teams that had sustained success and never won anything, the fatigue of losing in the playoffs every year is very real for those fans... almost on par with never making them for a decade but obviously not quite as bad.

 

[hblueridgegal]

DW recently said the best metric about the playoffs is the uptick in season ticket holders that follows. I am sure they have every KPI locked down re: what each playoff round delivers in addition to revenue such as PR and promotion mileage, too. It's always nice to be a consistent performer and in the thick of it but are fans such as MN really all that thrilled?

JMO, kinda feels like the most recent results may have taken a tiny bit of the shine off and lessened enthusiasm as expectations were high and the end results were a little underwhelming for the casuals given some of the commentary I have seen. And, there's possibly going to be a lot of changes and new faces to sell to them. The fan honeymoon might be entering a different stage with patience more thin. Winning, of course, could fix that.