Player Discussion Which d helps the oilers most?

[Up the Irons]

Hamonic doesn't play much PP time, cause he's more useful at even strength and on the PK. Regardless Hamonic has gotten 229.22 mins over the past 3 seasons and his powerplay points per 60 was 2.62 over this time frame. Ryan Ellis over this same time frame has a powerplay points per 60 of 2.53.

hmm. I voted Ellis, but this was informative. tx

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Anyone else think the only defenceman we'd acquire this offseason will be Demers?

 

[syz]

We need one good long-term option on defense this summer--the best possible one you can get.

Getting 'a couple of guys' is a short term upgrade but with the rumored asks they're guaranteed to cost you a)significant assets in acquiring them, b)substantial salary for a team who already own three defensemen on substantial contracts and c)another significant asset in Brandon Davidson or Griffin Reinhart at the expansion draft.

Even if the Oilers only acquire one "long-term option on defense," Reinhart is still getting exposed.

 

[belair]

Even if the Oilers only acquire one "long-term option on defense," Reinhart is still getting exposed.

As it stands...

That guy
Sekera (NMC)
Klefbom
Reinhart

Eberle
Hall
RNH
Draisaitl

...obviously 'that guy' may cost us one of those four forwards so you adjust accordingly.

And I get it that this board has a hard-on for hating the kid, but Peter Chiarelli and company went hard after this kid and they're not going to risk exposing him and his potential long-term upside for a marginal short-term upgrade. They might trade him, but his current value on the trade market makes that a less than favorable option.

And I highly doubt management soured on that kid as quickly as this board did.

There is still a year for things to shake out, but as it stands losing Reinhart at the expense of a few expensive patch jobs on defense would be a waste of valuable assets.

 

[McNuge]

Even if the Oilers only acquire one "long-term option on defense," Reinhart is still getting exposed.

If the Oilers aquire 1 Dman:

Klefbom - XXX

Sekera - Davidson/Nurse/Reinhart/Fayne

Davidson/Nurse/Reinhart - Davidson/Nurse/Griff/Fayne



Klefbom - XXX

Klefbom will almost certainly be on the top pairing. Management just signed him to a long contract, and quite frankly deserves to be there. He struggled off the start but once he got in his groove he played really well. His partner will need to be as good or better than him. Ideal candidate Hamonic IMO.

Sekera - Davidson/Nurse/Reinhart/Fayne

When they acquired Sekera it was to anchor the second pairing. Really like the contract, think he is a great asset to the team.

Davidson really showed some great strides in his limited viewing. If he played like he did during the end of the year he can be a #4 easily, if he faltered then it would be on to the next one.

Nurse had his ups and his downs this season. He actually was quite good for a decent stretch, most TOI as a rookie. He was aggressive and really worked well with Sekera for a short time. But, when he hit his laps then he looked confused and overwhelmed. Still more than capable of being a #4 if he is playing well.

Reinhart started off bad but finished not that bad. He has mostly the same problems as Nurse. When he is on his game then he is quite effective, but his consistency is not there yet. Like Nurse he can make a more than capable #4 when he is at his best.

Fayne was brought in and severly overpaid for what he was. That being said, he is not a terrible option for a bottom pairing Dman who can step into the #4 when need be. I don't think he should be the #4 if the team wants to get anywhere though.

That being said, we need to create a competition between these young men to take the next step and be on that second pairing. They are all highly competitive and we have seen, first hand, what they can be. If you bury them by getting 2 long term Dmen, you will severely stifle their growth.

 

[OilTastic]

We need one good long-term option on defense this summer--the best possible one you can get.

Getting 'a couple of guys' is a short term upgrade but with the rumored asks they're guaranteed to cost you a)significant assets in acquiring them, b)substantial salary for a team who already own three defensemen on substantial contracts and c)another significant asset in Brandon Davidson or Griffin Reinhart at the expansion draft.

do you honestly believe that if the Oilers trade for Fowler and/or Brodin/Dumba, that these guys are "a short term upgrade"? says who? and you have to give to get and also pay these guys. i'm confident that Chia will work out the $$$ and if we should lose a good player to the expansion draft like a Davidson for example, it won't ruin the franchise.

 

[6 God]

In order:

1. Hamonic
2. Ellis
3. Fowler
4. Demers
5. Campbell
6. Dumba
7. Brodin

 

[McWeber]

Hamonic doesn't play much PP time, cause he's more useful at even strength and on the PK. Regardless Hamonic has gotten 229.22 mins over the past 3 seasons and his powerplay points per 60 was 2.62 over this time frame. Ryan Ellis over this same time frame has a powerplay points per 60 of 2.53.

Which unit is each of them playing on? Nashville has always had pretty mediocre forwards while having Weber with the best shot in the league playing ahead of Ellis. I will admit I like him more than most but I believe Ellis would show much more being the go to guy on the Oilers PP. Hamonic is very high on the want list too but I want to add some scoring potential and Ellis if made available is what I consider to be a high risk high reward kind of guy. See if he can handle the bigger role full time, I have read Nashville fans always feel highly about the guy and he has done well whenever Weber was out.

 

[syz]

As it stands...

That guy
Sekera (NMC)
Klefbom
Reinhart

Eberle
Hall
RNH
Draisaitl

...obviously 'that guy' may cost us one of those four forwards so you adjust accordingly.

And I get it that this board has a hard-on for hating the kid, but Peter Chiarelli and company went hard after this kid and they're not going to risk exposing him and his potential long-term upside for a marginal short-term upgrade. They might trade him, but his current value on the trade market makes that a less than favorable option.

And I highly doubt management soured on that kid as quickly as this board did.

There is still a year for things to shake out, but as it stands losing Reinhart at the expense of a few expensive patch jobs on defense would be a waste of valuable assets.

Davidson easily gets protected before Reinhart, unless he falls off a cliff this year.

And even if Davidson falls off that cliff, that will probably just mean that neither of those guys are worth protecting anyways.

And then even if they get exposed, if the Oilers go with 8 skaters there will probably be more useful options at forward for Las Vegas to pick from.

 

[belair]

do you honestly believe that if the Oilers trade for Fowler and/or Brodin/Dumba, that these guys are "a short term upgrade"? says who? and you have to give to get and also pay these guys. i'm confident that Chia will work out the $$$ and if we should lose a good player to the expansion draft like a Davidson for example, it won't ruin the franchise.

Yes, I think Fowler is a patch job. He's a left-handed, offensive-minded defenseman. A Jack Johnson comparable. The odd man out of a division rival, meaning top dollar.

Brodin is the death of offense. He's essentially what we want Reinhart to be but he's at full cost today and Minnesota probably asks you for RNH. He can play the right side though, so that's a plus.

Dumba played 16 minutes a game last year. He's not even a patch job. He's about as reliable as Justin Schultz in terms of playing key minutes. Apparently he'll cost you RNH as well.

I want quality, not quantity. ONE guy.

Davidson easily gets protected before Reinhart, unless he falls off a cliff this year.

And even if Davidson falls off that cliff, that will probably just mean that neither of those guys are worth protecting anyways.

And then even if they get exposed, if the Oilers go with 8 skaters there will probably be more useful options at forward for Las Vegas to pick from.

I think Las Vegas loads up on high upside when they have the opportunity. There's going to be a lot of high salary available out there for them, so when they have the opportunity to poach top prospects, you can be sure they will.

And I don't think Chiarelli agrees. If Davidson duplicates last year (meaning not taking a giant step forward) they have to protect the asset they paid a ransom for. Reinhart is two years younger and possesses significant upside. Jumping Davidson isn't unrealistic--even as early as next year.

Of course this is all speculative if we have the opportunity to use 'shenanigans' to protect specific players from being selected.

 

[redgrant]

Brodin
Dumba
Fowler
Ellis
Hamonic
Demers
Campbell

A list of tier 2 dmen when we need some 1 and 1a dmen after years of sekeras ferences and faynes.

Subban is the best option no matter the cost.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Demers because he wouldn't require giving up an asset to get. Harmonic otherwise.

This is by far the correct answer.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

A list of tier 2 dmen when we need some 1 and 1a dmen after years of sekeras ferences and faynes.

Subban is the best option no matter the cost.

Getting a tier 2 defenceman or even 2 would remove the loaded gun pointed at our heads in trade proposal or legitimate offer that Chiarelli has had to turn down. None of this Hall for Shattenkirk nonsense I've seen as an example.

Klefbom - Demers
Hamhuis - Sekera
Davidson - Fayne

 

[Mr Positive]

A list of tier 2 dmen when we need some 1 and 1a dmen after years of sekeras ferences and faynes.

Subban is the best option no matter the cost.

The Subban thing is dead imo. Without Dubois there is no push from ownership

 

[Jepprey]

Luke Schenn will be our saviour.

 

[The Safe Play]

Anyone but Brodin and Fowler on that list. I like Hamonic then Ellis then Demers then Dumba then Campbell in that order.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Which D helps us the most?

Nashville's would be nice.

 

[FunkyChicken]

Campbell. He can carry a top pairing. Then Demers, then Hamhuis as they will cost nothing.

 

[Blitzago*]

Yes, I think Fowler is a patch job. He's a left-handed, offensive-minded defenseman. A Jack Johnson comparable. The odd man out of a division rival, meaning top dollar.

Brodin is the death of offense. He's essentially what we want Reinhart to be but he's at full cost today and Minnesota probably asks you for RNH. He can play the right side though, so that's a plus.

Dumba played 16 minutes a game last year. He's not even a patch job. He's about as reliable as Justin Schultz in terms of playing key minutes. Apparently he'll cost you RNH as well.

I want quality, not quantity. ONE guy.



I think Las Vegas loads up on high upside when they have the opportunity. There's going to be a lot of high salary available out there for them, so when they have the opportunity to poach top prospects, you can be sure they will.

And I don't think Chiarelli agrees. If Davidson duplicates last year (meaning not taking a giant step forward) they have to protect the asset they paid a ransom for. Reinhart is two years younger and possesses significant upside. Jumping Davidson isn't unrealistic--even as early as next year.

Of course this is all speculative if we have the opportunity to use 'shenanigans' to protect specific players from being selected.

Unless reinhart learns how to skate, Davidson will get protected, Chia is not gonna protect Reinhart just cause he paid assets to get him.

 

[Sniper99]

Subban

A right handed dman, shoots like its going out of style, hits and can move the puck.

Honorable Mention to Shattenkirk

 

[Kelevra]

Anyone else think the only defenceman we'd acquire this offseason will be Demers?

Im starting to feel that way to. Chia is going to get lucic and demers and stand pat. Let JP start in the minors so that he can't hit any bonuses and call him up in Dec. Likely run with this:

Lucic-Mcd-Yak (for a pump and dump and then call up JP)
Hall-Drai-Ebs
Pouliot-RNH-Maroon
Kassian-Letestuu-Hendo

Klef-Demers
Sekera-Davidson
Nurse-Fayne

Its really not that bad until injuries hit...then its the annual march to the lottery. Its too bad it dosnt look like anything else will be done

 

[Bangers]

If we acquire Fowler, can we use him ++ to get Subban?

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Which unit is each of them playing on? Nashville has always had pretty mediocre forwards while having Weber with the best shot in the league playing ahead of Ellis. I will admit I like him more than most but I believe Ellis would show much more being the go to guy on the Oilers PP. Hamonic is very high on the want list too but I want to add some scoring potential and Ellis if made available is what I consider to be a high risk high reward kind of guy. See if he can handle the bigger role full time, I have read Nashville fans always feel highly about the guy and he has done well whenever Weber was out.

I don't know where to get the stats that would tell me the most common linemates on the powerplay, but he's obviously playing behind Weber and Josi for the most part, he might see some playing time with the first unit forward group, but in all likelyhood he'd spend the majority of his time with the 2nd unit forward group. Most respectable powerplay guys will average 4 PP points per 60 mins, even with improved linemates that's a real big leap Ellis would have to make, as of right now he is a stretch as a 2nd unit PP guy.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

My order of preference:

• Hamonic- Handles big minutes and tough defensive assignments. Top pairing defensive d
• Fowler- Analytics aren't a fan of his at the moment, but given his utilization and d-partners not too bad. He has shown a capacity to help in all areas, no one else on the list can play even strength, PP, and PK. I feel he was being utilized incorrectly and their is enough skill for him to turn the corner in the right environment.
• Ellis- Thrives at even strength against 2nd tier opposition (dominant numbers), isn't helpful on special teams.
• Demers- Is a positive possession driver. Not good on the PP, but can help on the PK, his PK numbers last year were bad but stellar the 2 years prior to that.
• Campbell- The stats show him in decline, but still seems like everyone performs better with him than without him. Can no longer help on the PP.
• Brodin- Low event player, can handle top checking assignments against top opposition, but actually sucks offense out of the team. Despite having terrible possession metrics it hasn't hurt his goal differential as much as you'd think.
• Dumba- High event player, a dangerous PP threat, needs to be sheltered and given an offensive zone start bias to be effective.

edited: Demers corsi QoC wasn't as high as I thought.

 

[thadd]

I almost chose Ellis... but we couldn't give him the same kind of big hard minutes as Hamonic.