Where does Auston Matthews rank on a list of top forwards?

[DomBarr]

Career wise probably in the 5 to 10 range but I just looked at this season and had him in the 13 to 19 range and thats only because he got to 40 goals

 

[authentic]

Tkachuk and Pasta have zero business being ahead. Recency bias is alive and well.


Pastrnak isn’t either. This year (his peak to date) he was about as good offensively as Matthews was last year without playing centre or being as good defensively.

Yeah I didn’t even bother mentioning him because he’s atleast slightly arguable based on a few of his playoff performances and his consistency as an elite player over the past half decade, but I agree.

Hard to say cause he has been underwhelming in playoffs. Even players like Hintz and Tkachuk are doing better in playoffs.

This season only

 

[Regal]

So Matthews has had one elite regular season. Last year.

Tkachuk does so much more than score points. He is far better defensively, draws penalties, hits, fights. Matthews is scoring goals or doing nothing.

Uh, Matthews won the Richard by a healthy margin, while finishing 5th in points and runner up in the Hart in the ‘20-21 season.

 

[authentic]

So Matthews has had one elite regular season. Last year.

Tkachuk does so much more than score points. He is far better defensively, draws penalties, hits, fights. Matthews is scoring goals or doing nothing.

You really aren't serious are you?

Tkachuk is FAR BETTER DEFENSIVELY (except he's actually worse) and Matthews only has 1 elite regular season! Yes, he was runner up for the Hart and Lindsay trophy the season before winning both, but he has 1 ELITE REGULAR SEASON!

 

[Aqualung]

People underrating Matthews now. Par for the course.

 

[Haatley]

You really aren't serious are you?

Tkachuk is FAR BETTER DEFENSIVELY (except he's actually worse) and Matthews only has 1 elite regular season! Yes, he was runner up for the Hart and Lindsay trophy the season before winning both, but he has 1 ELITE REGULAR SEASON!

I was using your logic.

What makes you think Matthews is the better defensive player? This should be interesting. You obviously haven't seen or read much about Tkachuk over his career. He was a key part of one of the best shut down lines in the league for years in Calgary. But go ahead.

 

[wetcoast]

Below McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, and Kucherov. But he’s definitely in that second tier of forwards despite a bad season. That second tier is pretty large and I could see anyone ranking him 2-9ish

I agree but put him at #10, at some point he has to shake the playoff monster to go higher and I resisted saying this until now but it's really dragging him down on any list.

 

[wasunder]

I agree but put him at #10, at some point he has to shake the playoff monster to go higher and I resisted saying this until now but it's really dragging him down on any list.

Who’s your top ten out of curiosity?

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah I didn’t even bother mentioning him because he’s atleast slightly arguable based on a few of his playoff performances and his consistency as an elite player over the past half decade, but I agree.



This season only

Hintz has a pretty decent playoff resume aside from this season but as much a I like him it's hard to put him ahead of AM.

Pasta is closer and before this season I would have AM far ahead but now I'm not so sure but AM still has to rank higher right?

 

[wetcoast]

Who’s your top ten out of curiosity?

It was a gut reaction and I don't have an official "list" but off the top of my head I would have the 2 Oilers, Mack definitely ahead of him then a big group including Rantanen, Crosby, Marner, J Hughes.
Tage Thompson, Point, Kruchov and others to put him in the middle but I had him as a top 5 lock last year and even though he really had a better season than the counting stats suggest the playoffs still holds him back but I may be being too harsh here as he has a legit argument to be a top 5 lock still.

 

[wasunder]

It was a gut reaction and I don't have an official "list" but off the top of my head I would have the 2 Oilers, Mack definitely ahead of him then a big group including Rantanen, Crosby, Marner, J Hughes.
Tage Thompson, Point, Kruchov and others to put him in the middle but I had him as a top 5 lock last year and even though he really had a better season than the counting stats suggest the playoffs still holds him back but I may be being too harsh here as he has a legit argument to be a top 5 lock still.

Fair enough that’s a decent list. I’d include Pastrnak as well, and I’d personally like to see Thompson, and Hughes do it for one season. Point is definitely interesting but if you value playoff performances highly I get it.

 

[kevsh]

Even with an off-season this year he's averaging .7 GPG over the past three.

Go back in NHL history and count how many players have ever averaged 57+ goals a season over the same span. I didn't count because I'm lazy but I'm confident it's a small list. He's also a takeaway machine and is constantly improving his overall game.

So I got him at 4 behind the usual suspects. Pasta, Mouthguard, etc. fall in just behind him.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Somewhere between 5-10

 

[authentic]

It was a gut reaction and I don't have an official "list" but off the top of my head I would have the 2 Oilers, Mack definitely ahead of him then a big group including Rantanen, Crosby, Marner, J Hughes.
Tage Thompson, Point, Kruchov and others to put him in the middle but I had him as a top 5 lock last year and even though he really had a better season than the counting stats suggest the playoffs still holds him back but I may be being too harsh here as he has a legit argument to be a top 5 lock still.

Crosby and Tage Thompson are in no way better than Matthews (same goes for Marner, and Point to a lesser extent), probably not even an injured Matthews we saw this season either.

Which one of these two players was going to put up 5 goals and 9 points in 6 games against Tampa in the playoffs with solid defense on top, nevermind doing so with a not fully healthy wrist/hand?

 

[authentic]

Hintz has a pretty decent playoff resume aside from this season but as much a I like him it's hard to put him ahead of AM.

Pasta is closer and before this season I would have AM far ahead but now I'm not so sure but AM still has to rank higher right?

If Matthews gets the surgery and/or the rest he needs to heal before this next season he's better than everyone except McDavid/Drai and MacKinnon. You can take that one to the bank.

 

[I am not exposed]

Somewhere in the top 5. But obviously behind McDavid.

 

[SENStastic]

List of players better then him as of now:
McJesus, Drai, Mac, Kucherov, Pasta, M. Tkachuk, Petterson, J. Hughes, Crosby. Next year, likely Robertson, Bedard, and maybe Stutzle will be considered at his level or above, all several years younger and about to enter their prime. The guy is at his peak, stapled to one of the most creative wingers in the league and still struggles, if he's not scoring, he's not contributing an awful lot to be considered in the top 10 anymore.

No drive, no motivation, no heart, no leadership, no determination or grit. Does he even put up last season's numbers if Marner isn't by his side? Can he be the main line driver and keep up 100pt pace? Very doubtful. Might have had the raw skill to be top 5 player when he entered the league, but not sure if he cares enough to do it at this point. Wasted potential, just the leafs wasted opportunities. He knows he'll get paid regardless.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

List of players better then him as of now:
McJesus, Drai, Mac, Kucherov, Pasta, M. Tkachuk, Petterson, J. Hughes, Crosby. Next year, likely Robertson, Bedard, and maybe Stutzle will be considered at his level or above, all several years younger and about to enter their prime. The guy is at his peak, stapled to one of the most creative wingers in the league and still struggles, if he's not scoring, he's not contributing an awful lot to be considered in the top 10 anymore.

No drive, no motivation, no heart, no leadership, no determination or grit. Does he even put up last season's numbers if Marner isn't by his side? Can he be the main line driver and keep up 100pt pace? Very doubtful. Might have had the raw skill to be top 5 player when he entered the league, but not sure if he cares enough to do it at this point. Wasted potential, just the leafs wasted opportunities. He knows he'll get paid regardless.

But if this was a Marner thread you’d be downplaying him saying he’s stapled to one of the best goal scoring centres in the league.

And nice try tossing Stutzle in there. Hopefully you waltz into the playoffs next season.

 

[amnesiac]

McDavid
MacKinnon
Draisaitl
Kucherov
Tkachuk
Matthews
Pastrnak
Rantanen
Hughes
Thompson
Kaprizov
Marner
Robertson
Crosby
Pettersson
Panarin
Point
Marchand
Barkov

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby and Tage Thompson are in no way better than Matthews (same goes for Marner, and Point to a lesser extent), probably not even an injured Matthews we saw this season either.

Which one of these two players was going to put up 5 goals and 9 points in 6 games against Tampa in the playoffs with solid defense on top, nevermind doing so with a not fully healthy wrist/hand?

I'll take Crosby easily over AM going into a playoff round until he either simply ages out or AM busts out as a winner and I'm not one that usually downplay lack of team success in a players resume but his individual playoff resume simply isn't that great.

I'd probably take AM over Tage 8 days a week but on the 9th day the playoff thing just left a bad taste in my mouth.

If Matthews gets the surgery and/or the rest he needs to heal before this next season he's better than everyone except McDavid/Drai and MacKinnon. You can take that one to the bank.

Sure the first sentence is to be what is expected for most people, myself included but if we see another early exit and underwhelming playoff effort (remember we are talking about the level required for the 4th best forward overall here so it's a really high bar) I could easily put him #10 again.

 

[authentic]

I'll take Crosby easily over AM going into a playoff round until he either simply ages out or AM busts out as a winner and I'm not one that usually downplay lack of team success in a players resume but his individual playoff resume simply isn't that great.

I'd probably take AM over Tage 8 days a week but on the 9th day the playoff thing just left a bad taste in my mouth.



Sure the first sentence is to be what is expected for most people, myself included but if we see another early exit and underwhelming playoff effort (remember we are talking about the level required for the 4th best forward overall here so it's a really high bar) I could easily put him #10 again.

Crosby hasn't made it out of the first round in 5 years and his playoff stats in that time are worse than Matthews. Not sure anything before that is really relevant going forward at Crosby's age.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby hasn't made it out of the first round in 5 years and his playoff stats in that time are worse than Matthews. Not sure anything before that is really relevant going forward at Crosby's age.

Crosby has performed well and carried the play while on the ice and he has a history while the playoff history for AM really has become a bit of a burden for his ranking IMO after that second round loss to Florida.

 

[Kevinsane]

Where does this thread rank among main board threads that are relevant and timely at this point in the playoffs?
Below 25th.
Far far below.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Voted 10

He's better than that but was too lazy to do a list

He's somewhere between 5 and 10 I'd say

 

[authentic]

Crosby has performed well and carried the play while on the ice and he has a history while the playoff history for AM really has become a bit of a burden for his ranking IMO after that second round loss to Florida.

Yeah I just believe it is based on his name more than anything at this point.

Crosby has been under a point per game in 3 of his last 4 playoff runs and 6 of his last 9 and a minus player in 4 of those last 9.

Matthews has been a point per game or better in 3 of his last 4 and 3 out of 7 in total, but also includes a series where he had 5 goals in 7 games against Boston but only 1 assist, also has been a minus player just twice in his career.

4 goals 16 points -4 in 20 games since Crosby's 31 year old playoff season and next time he possibly makes the playoffs he'll be 36 going on 37.

Matthews in that time frame has 17 goals 37 points in 37 games +1.

Then throw in some of the extra stuff beyond scoring...

25 hits 12 blocked shots 14 takeaways 19 giveaways for Crosby

105 hits 47 blocked shots 44 takeaways 20 giveaways for Matthews

Matthews even wins more faceoffs and takes less penalties (5 of his 9 career penalty minutes were from getting jumped by Stamkos)